587 réponses à ce sujet

[KevShep]

The fact that so many people are against synthesis is proof that the chaos will continue STILL! Therefor the catalyst is dead wrong about synthesis ending chaos!

My shep is 100% paragon and I chose Destroy!

Modifié par KevShep, 21 février 2013 - 07:49 .

[Hadeedak]

Yeah. It helps to get some variety in perspective for most any problem. If you can internalize that conflict, I think you have a more complex perspective on it than someone who only has one answer for it. It's not a black and white problem.

[78stonewobble]

Bill Casey wrote...

Auintus wrote...

Because you gave up. In standing on the Crucible, one has the Reapers in the palm of their hand. All you need to do is choose. And instead you choose to lose on your terms, rather than win on his. It's quitting.

Refuse is winning...
But I would rather lose and save as much of the universe as I can...
And I hate myself for it...

The few times I refused are the only times I've truly felt like I wasn't a complete monster...

Well I see destroy as winning.

The kid told me the self destruct code and all it cost me was the sacrifice of the 4th mechanized division. Which could have been everyone but happened to be the Geth.

In wars there are casualties and if the Geth weren't prepared to "die" they probably wouldn't have volunteered to fight at all.

Atleast thats the point of view I choose.

Refuse is kinda stupid, imho, considering the casualties sustained so far in the fighting. You might as well have let yourself get killed within the first few mins of the game and spare people the false hope.

[DKJaigen]

KevShep wrote...

The fact that so many people are against synthesis is proof that the chaos will continue STILL! Therefor the catalyst is dead wrong about synthesis ending chaos!

My shep is 100% paragon and I chose Destroy!

Thats not proof as humans are very difficult to move away from what their comfortable with. But that doesnt mean its not good for them. You can only judge synthesis after it happend not before.

[Auintus]

Bill Casey wrote...
Refuse is winning...
But I would rather lose and save as much of the universe as I can...
And I hate myself for it...

The few times I refused are the only times I've truly felt like I wasn't a complete monster...

You die. Everybody dies. Your LI, your friends, your crew, everybody. You call that a victory?
You save none of the universe. You stand on the brink of victory, then throw it away because the Crucible wasn't good enough. That's not a victory.

[Auintus]

DKJaigen wrote...

Thats not proof as humans are very difficult to move away from what their comfortable with. But that doesnt mean its not good for them. You can only judge synthesis after it happend not before.

This one gets it. It's kinda like making a kid eat their vegetables. They may not like it, but it's good for them.

[clennon8]

I'm tempted to go start a mocking thread titled "Synthesis is kind of like making a kid eat their vegetables." I'm sure it would be hilarious for, I dunno, maybe half an hour, before it got locked.

[Auld Wulf]

KevShep wrote...

The fact that so many people are against synthesis is proof that the chaos will continue STILL! Therefor the catalyst is dead wrong about synthesis ending chaos!

My shep is 100% paragon and I chose Destroy!

Yes, but that's because of the empathetic scale. On one end of the scale you have empathy, empathy implies a high level of overall intellect and emotional intelligence. On the other end of the scale you have sociopathy, which implies that the person has no ability to relate to any other human. Sociopathy often leads to widespread hate, and we have a lot of omnicidal maniacs here (since, after all, Destroy is basically Control plus genocide).

However, an infusion of empathy would fix that. It's like fixing an illness. If you have someone who's psychopathic then the right cocktail of brain chemicals can sometimes restore the neurological balance and return to them some level of empathy. Both psychopathy and sociopathy stem from the inability to feel as others do, to understand their feelings, their pain, their joy, or anything about them. And it makes people see others, such as ethnic minorities, those of lifestyle choies, or whatever else as innately inferior. Sometimes all other beings as innately inferior.

This is what creates chaos and war. Sociopathy implies a complete absence of guilt, the sociopath is broken in that he or she is completely unable to feel guilt. In other words, a sociopath can kill a person (like all of the geth) and not even feel remotely bad about it. There are far too many people who shot Mordin and felt nothing, that scares me. Even though it's a story, it's a story that should evoke emotions and guilt. Guilt is nature's modifier towards ethical behavioour, and thus those able to feel guilt tend to pick Control or Synthesis.

Synthesis would end the chaos because it would provide that "fix" that so many people need. It would flip their sociopathy scale to the opposite end, they'd suddenly start feeling. They'd have guilt, and they'd want to attone for past acts. They'd understand how others feel. And likely, via the galactic consensus that comes about with Synthesis, they will even be able to directly feel the feelings of their victims. How easy would it be to pull a gun on someone if they could feel what the victim was feeling?

So Synthesis is necessary, it's necessary because sociopathy and the inability to feel any form of guilt whatsoever is a modern day cancer. If all sociopathy was replaced with empathy, we'd (for the first time ever) have a damn good shot at lasting peace. Not an absolute, but it provides the best statistical chance for lasting any amount of time. If you're not afraid of other people, if you don't see them as different, and/or vile, and/or inferior, then you're less likely to kill them.

Thus, I choose what I saw as a necessity.

[clennon8]

There are many sociopaths (people who don't feel empathy) in this world who get along just fine. They just sort of "fake it" and get through life without causing much fuss. The problem with society isn't so much sociopathy as indoctrination. Many troublemakers are people who feel empathy, but have twisted belief systems, often stemming from religious dogma.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Auld Wulf wrote...

KevShep wrote...

The fact that so many people are against synthesis is proof that the chaos will continue STILL! Therefor the catalyst is dead wrong about synthesis ending chaos!

My shep is 100% paragon and I chose Destroy!

Yes, but that's because of the empathetic scale. On one end of the scale you have empathy, empathy implies a high level of overall intellect and emotional intelligence. On the other end of the scale you have sociopathy, which implies that the person has no ability to relate to any other human. Sociopathy often leads to widespread hate, and we have a lot of omnicidal maniacs here (since, after all, Destroy is basically Control plus genocide).

However, an infusion of empathy would fix that. It's like fixing an illness. If you have someone who's psychopathic then the right cocktail of brain chemicals can sometimes restore the neurological balance and return to them some level of empathy. Both psychopathy and sociopathy stem from the inability to feel as others do, to understand their feelings, their pain, their joy, or anything about them. And it makes people see others, such as ethnic minorities, those of lifestyle choies, or whatever else as innately inferior. Sometimes all other beings as innately inferior.

This is what creates chaos and war. Sociopathy implies a complete absence of guilt, the sociopath is broken in that he or she is completely unable to feel guilt. In other words, a sociopath can kill a person (like all of the geth) and not even feel remotely bad about it. There are far too many people who shot Mordin and felt nothing, that scares me. Even though it's a story, it's a story that should evoke emotions and guilt. Guilt is nature's modifier towards ethical behavioour, and thus those able to feel guilt tend to pick Control or Synthesis.

Synthesis would end the chaos because it would provide that "fix" that so many people need. It would flip their sociopathy scale to the opposite end, they'd suddenly start feeling. They'd have guilt, and they'd want to attone for past acts. They'd understand how others feel. And likely, via the galactic consensus that comes about with Synthesis, they will even be able to directly feel the feelings of their victims. How easy would it be to pull a gun on someone if they could feel what the victim was feeling?

So Synthesis is necessary, it's necessary because sociopathy and the inability to feel any form of guilt whatsoever is a modern day cancer. If all sociopathy was replaced with empathy, we'd (for the first time ever) have a damn good shot at lasting peace. Not an absolute, but it provides the best statistical chance for lasting any amount of time. If you're not afraid of other people, if you don't see them as different, and/or vile, and/or inferior, then you're less likely to kill them.

Thus, I choose what I saw as a necessity.

So, you openly admit that synthesis will alter the minds of all sentient beings and this alteration will allow them to empathize and accept even the reapers. Thanks. Thats all anyone needs to know to realize how wrong synthesis is. There is no solution and no freedom in forcing acceptance. 

[Auintus]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

So, you openly admit that synthesis will alter the minds of all sentient beings and this alteration will allow them to empathize and accept even the reapers. Thanks. Thats all anyone needs to know to realize how wrong synthesis is. There is no solution and no freedom in forcing acceptance. 

It makes them capable of seeing them as equals. Organics and synthetics are so fundamentally different that conflict is inevitable. The Catalyst came to understand this after hundreds of cycles. So if you remove that dfference, make organics more synthetic and help synthetics understand organic thought, you remove the greatest cause of that particular conflict.

And what of the freedom of the Geth? Should they not be allowed to choose? Remember that Legion is perfectly willing to kill Shepard to protect his people. Synthesis doesn't force acceptance. It assists it.

Modifié par Auintus, 21 février 2013 - 04:50 .

[o Ventus]

Please, just stop replying to Auld Wulf. He'll tire himself out.

[MJoshier]

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

My suggestion, Sc2, is to have Shepards with different personalities as much as you can. I found I had a Shep who suited each ending. Though I still haven't gotten to renegade control.... It's kind of opened my mind to each option, and how I can see someone going for them.

I agree with that. There is a certain kind of Shepard that would do each of the endings, paragon or renegade and whether you think, personally, that one of the choices is smarter or better than the others.

I agree, it really depends on you, how you play through the games that enable you to make the decision you make at the end. I've played through all three games several times making different decisions every time, my latest playthrough had a geth vi in me3 in place of legion that certainly more hostile and distrustful towards my shep and peace was not an option between the geth and the quarians during that phase of the game so in the end i didn't have the geth fighting on my side, so that alone made it easier to pick destroy over synthesis. Now picking destroy doesn't mean i'm a luddite, otherwise if i were, I'm certain I wouldn't be playing a video game on my xbox and using technology. Sacrifice in war is inevitable whether it be you alone, or a commander sending their squad to die in order to protect a school full children. So no, if the geth weren't prepared to become as edi calls it "nonfunctional" they wouldn't be fighting. I do think they should've made it a bit more inclusive with the EMS thing such as, if your EMS is too low picking destroy will completely wipe out earth and every living thing on it. I think it would have been better to get your EMS to the highest possible in order to focus the destructive energy on the reapers alone. Then again, that would probably make the game less than worth it to play, but i'm just sayin.