587 réponses à ce sujet

[Enhanced]

clennon8 wrote...

I choose Destroy.

I oppose Control because it is a fascist fantasy.  But that's a discussion for another thread.

I also oppose Synthesis.  On that matter, let's get a few things straight.

I reject Synthesis because I do not find the source to be trustworthy, nor do I find the explanation of it to be credible.  Is this simply because I'm paranoid?  No.  It's because the game went out of its way for over a hundred hours to show us how the Reapers screw with your head and make organics believe fantastic things that are bad for them.  One of their favorite fantasies?  Synthesis.? 

I don't understand how people can completely trust what he says about one choice (Destroy) , but not another (Synthesis).

Modifié par Enhanced, 12 février 2013 - 03:10 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

BleedingUranium wrote...

"Let's just all give up" is not an acceptable solution.

"People are picking an ending I don't like" isn't really a problem.

spirosz wrote...
Nothings, that's the point of headcannon.  I
personally believe Synthesis just makes better killers, but hey - what
floats your diana allers. 

Wonder what floats diana allers' diana allers?

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 12 février 2013 - 03:10 .

[BleedingUranium]

spirosz wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Okay, then don't pick it. People who are fine with Synthesis, let them be, as everyone who likes Destroy, Control, Reject, whatever - each their own... as it should be on these discussions. Trying to change someone's mindset on these endings won't usually work because most are likely set in stone on their decision.

"Let's just all give up" is not an acceptable solution.

Subjective.  I've seen some very reasonable pro-refuse people and I have nothing against it.  I'll still pick Destroy, but I understand why certain Shepards wouldn't choose any.

I wasn't talking about Refuse.

spirosz wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

So
what's stopping these fancy new synthesis people from building new,
non-synthesized Reapers that will start killing everyone all over
again?

Nothings, that's the point of headcannon.  I
personally believe Synthesis just makes better killers, but hey - what
floats your diana allers.

Right, nothing. So synthesis doesn't actually solve the supposed problem.

[Wayning_Star]

spirosz wrote...

Okay, then don't pick it. People who are fine with Synthesis, let them be, as everyone who likes Destroy, Control, Reject, whatever - each their own... as it should be on these discussions. Trying to change someone's mindset on these endings won't usually work because most are likely set in stone on their decision.

I cannot see the MEU getting saved that way tho. There can be only one, anything else is, well..confusing?

Unless the MEU is beyond help? That could be canon.. The old star gazer was just lying to the kid, you know telling stories,etc..

[BleedingUranium]

Enhanced wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I choose Destroy.

I oppose Control because it is a fascist fantasy.  But that's a discussion for another thread.

I also oppose Synthesis.  On that matter, let's get a few things straight.

I reject Synthesis because I do not find the source to be trustworthy, nor do I find the explanation of it to be credible.  Is this simply because I'm paranoid?  No.  It's because the game went out of its way for over a hundred hours to show us how the Reapers screw with your head and make organics believe fantastic things that are bad for them.  One of their favorite fantasies?  Synthesis.? 

I don't understand how people can completely trust what he says about one choice (Destroy) , but not another (Synthesis).

That's a seperate topic.

[Enhanced]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I choose Destroy.

I oppose Control because it is a fascist fantasy.  But that's a discussion for another thread.

I also oppose Synthesis.  On that matter, let's get a few things straight.

I reject Synthesis because I do not find the source to be trustworthy, nor do I find the explanation of it to be credible.  Is this simply because I'm paranoid?  No.  It's because the game went out of its way for over a hundred hours to show us how the Reapers screw with your head and make organics believe fantastic things that are bad for them.  One of their favorite fantasies?  Synthesis.? 

I don't understand how people can completely trust what he says about one choice (Destroy) , but not another (Synthesis).

That's a seperate topic.

Not really. The title says "....Synthesis is a trick...."

Modifié par Enhanced, 12 février 2013 - 03:16 .

[spirosz]

BleedingUranium wrote...

spirosz wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Okay, then don't pick it. People who are fine with Synthesis, let them be, as everyone who likes Destroy, Control, Reject, whatever - each their own... as it should be on these discussions. Trying to change someone's mindset on these endings won't usually work because most are likely set in stone on their decision.

"Let's just all give up" is not an acceptable solution.

Subjective.  I've seen some very reasonable pro-refuse people and I have nothing against it.  I'll still pick Destroy, but I understand why certain Shepards wouldn't choose any.

I wasn't talking about Refuse.

spirosz wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

So
what's stopping these fancy new synthesis people from building new,
non-synthesized Reapers that will start killing everyone all over
again?

Nothings, that's the point of headcannon.  I
personally believe Synthesis just makes better killers, but hey - what
floats your diana allers.

Right, nothing. So synthesis doesn't actually solve the supposed problem.

Oh, lol - let's all give up sounded like Refuse, my mistake, haha.  

Again though, nothing can mean something for someone else, haha.  

[mvaning]

Wayning_Star wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Okay, then don't pick it. People who are fine with Synthesis, let them be, as everyone who likes Destroy, Control, Reject, whatever - each their own... as it should be on these discussions. Trying to change someone's mindset on these endings won't usually work because most are likely set in stone on their decision.

I cannot see the MEU getting saved that way tho. There can be only one, anything else is, well..confusing?

Unless the MEU is beyond help? That could be canon.. The old star gazer was just lying to the kid, you know telling stories,etc..

The star gazer is indoctrinated!

[BleedingUranium]

Enhanced wrote...

Not really. The title says "....Synthesis is trick...."

Okay then, it can be a trick in any interpretation of the game that's not the face-value one.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 12 février 2013 - 03:18 .

[MrFob]

I do agree with the OP on synthesis. I also strongly agree ith the moral implications, mentioned by iakus.
The main problem is however, that none of the choices you have make a great deal of sense in that regard, destroy least of all. I mean, the catalyst's mere description of the destroy choice goes again every single thing he said before. It simply doesn't make any sense that this choice is even available to Shepard and we don't get to hear word 1 about this contradiction.
In fact, the only choice that does make a twisted sort of sense is control (from the catalysts point of view) but control is just absolutely ridiculous in the context of the story, given that you just killed TIM 5 minutes ago to prevent exactly this outcome.
So the only choice left is refuse and to get the player to loose deliberately after 200 hours of winning against impossible odds is just a joke really.
So yes, synthesis has it's problems but it's really not the only choice that does.

[Wayning_Star]

[/quote]

Not really. The title says "....Synthesis is a trick...."

[/quote]

I wouldn't worry too much about it, when posts contain less than a few words that often deflect, it's a troll trick. They've closed down on you, and win their arguement.

[BleedingUranium]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Not really. The title says "....Synthesis is a trick...."

I wouldn't worry too much about it, when posts contain less than a few words that often deflect, it's a troll trick. They've closed down on you, and win their arguement.

That's odd, it's almost like I replied to this almost 10 minutes ago.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 12 février 2013 - 03:25 .

[clennon8]

Enhanced wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I choose Destroy.

I oppose Control because it is a fascist fantasy.  But that's a discussion for another thread.

I also oppose Synthesis.  On that matter, let's get a few things straight.

I reject Synthesis because I do not find the source to be trustworthy, nor do I find the explanation of it to be credible.  Is this simply because I'm paranoid?  No.  It's because the game went out of its way for over a hundred hours to show us how the Reapers screw with your head and make organics believe fantastic things that are bad for them.  One of their favorite fantasies?  Synthesis.? 

I don't understand how people can completely trust what he says about one choice (Destroy) , but not another (Synthesis).

Well, first of all, was Destroy ever endorsed by a major indoctrinated villain in the game?  No.  But Control and Synthesis were.

Second, what did we know about the Crucible going into the final sequence?  Well, more than once we were told that it was a weapon "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction."  Those are Liara's words there, but Hackett says something similar at another point.

I suppose we could worry that shooting the tube wouldn't actually do anything but open a trapdoor that drops you into space, but that's a little bit Road Runner vs Wile E Coyote, isn't it?  I don't like to make presumptions about writer intent (unlike pro-Synthesis folks) but I do feel comfortable in assuming that the writers didn't put us in a NO WIN situation at the end.  That's about as far as I'm willing to go with any sort of application of meta-logic, but I will grant that much.

[Wayning_Star]

mvaning wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Okay, then don't pick it. People who are fine with Synthesis, let them be, as everyone who likes Destroy, Control, Reject, whatever - each their own... as it should be on these discussions. Trying to change someone's mindset on these endings won't usually work because most are likely set in stone on their decision.

I cannot see the MEU getting saved that way tho. There can be only one, anything else is, well..confusing?

Unless the MEU is beyond help? That could be canon.. The old star gazer was just lying to the kid, you know telling stories,etc..

The star gazer is indoctrinated!

I wondered why he never told the kid what Shep actually chose to win the bet. Now I know!!

[Wayning_Star]

clennon8 wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I choose Destroy.

I oppose Control because it is a fascist fantasy.  But that's a discussion for another thread.

I also oppose Synthesis.  On that matter, let's get a few things straight.

I reject Synthesis because I do not find the source to be trustworthy, nor do I find the explanation of it to be credible.  Is this simply because I'm paranoid?  No.  It's because the game went out of its way for over a hundred hours to show us how the Reapers screw with your head and make organics believe fantastic things that are bad for them.  One of their favorite fantasies?  Synthesis.? 

I don't understand how people can completely trust what he says about one choice (Destroy) , but not another (Synthesis).

Well, first of all, was Destroy ever endorsed by a major indoctrinated villain in the game?  No.  But Control and Synthesis were.

Second, what did we know about the Crucible going into the final sequence?  Well, more than once we were told that it was a weapon "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction."  Those are Liara's words there, but Hackett says something similar at another point.

I suppose we could worry that shooting the tube wouldn't actually do anything but open a trapdoor that drops you into space, but that's a little bit Road Runner vs Wile E Coyote, isn't it?  I don't like to make presumptions about writer intent (unlike pro-Synthesis folks) but I do feel comfortable in assuming that the writers didn't put us in a NO WIN situation at the end.  That's about as far as I'm willing to go with any sort of application of meta-logic, but I will grant that much.

what villian promotes synthesis? Even the catalyst doesn't promote synthesis. We were told that it's actual purpose wasn't known, but it's potential to hold vast amounts of energy were. There were also many fetch quests that alters its potential as well, parts and the rachni were novel increments of improvements.

watch that lore..it's tricky

[Wayning_Star]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Not really. The title says "....Synthesis is a trick...."

I wouldn't worry too much about it, when posts contain less than a few words that often deflect, it's a troll trick. They've closed down on you, and win their arguement.

That's odd, it's almost like I replied to this almost 10 minutes ago.

It would help IF you actually reply to posts..just say'n

[BleedingUranium]

Saren, TIM, the Reapers. All synthesis.

[Enhanced]

clennon8 wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I choose Destroy.

I oppose Control because it is a fascist fantasy.  But that's a discussion for another thread.

I also oppose Synthesis.  On that matter, let's get a few things straight.

I reject Synthesis because I do not find the source to be trustworthy, nor do I find the explanation of it to be credible.  Is this simply because I'm paranoid?  No.  It's because the game went out of its way for over a hundred hours to show us how the Reapers screw with your head and make organics believe fantastic things that are bad for them.  One of their favorite fantasies?  Synthesis.? 

I don't understand how people can completely trust what he says about one choice (Destroy) , but not another (Synthesis).

Well, first of all, was Destroy ever endorsed by a major indoctrinated villain in the game?  No.  But Control and Synthesis were.

Second, what did we know about the Crucible going into the final sequence?  Well, more than once we were told that it was a weapon "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction."  Those are Liara's words there, but Hackett says something similar at another point.

I suppose we could worry that shooting the tube wouldn't actually do anything but open a trapdoor that drops you into space, but that's a little bit Road Runner vs Wile E Coyote, isn't it?  I don't like to make presumptions about writer intent (unlike pro-Synthesis folks) but I do feel comfortable in assuming that the writers didn't put us in a NO WIN situation at the end.  That's about as far as I'm willing to go with any sort of application of meta-logic, but I will grant that much.

They only assume it's weapon, what else could it be, right?  Even Krogans would come to that scientific conclusion. No one seems to know how it works or how to exactly activate it.  If the Catalyst is such a liar, he wouldn't give Shepard any of that information.

Modifié par Enhanced, 12 février 2013 - 04:06 .

[humes spork]

clennon8 wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

I don't understand how people can completely trust what he says about one choice (Destroy) , but not another (Synthesis).

Well, first of all, was Destroy ever endorsed by a major indoctrinated villain in the game?  No.  But Control and Synthesis were.

Let's add "how people can remember at the drop of the hat TIM is indoctrinated and therefore serving the Reapers when it comes to the end, but not when it comes to the Cerberus coup" to the list of "wait, what?" things, too.

But that's tangential.

[mvaning]

 EDI and Shepard have some interesting banter about Trans-humans. This is right after Sur'kesh.

"EDI : Mordin sent me a nicely crafted message. It seems he recalls our conversations about the Salarian's equivalent of Trans-humans.

Shepard: If I could I'd stop you right --

EDI: Trans-humans have some of their brain's abilities, such as memory, supplemented or entirely replaced by cybernetics. Legal definitions vary from planet to planet. Salarians embrace the concept. Humans have diverse and contentious opinions.

Shepard: Do my implants make me a Trans-human?

EDI: That would be telling.

Shepard: What??

EDI: I'm sorry, that was a joke. You are fully human. Cerberus extensively reconstructed you but your brain fuctions are organic.

Shepard: Don't ever do that again! "


Shepard obviously really loves the idea of Trans-humanism.

Modifié par mvaning, 12 février 2013 - 04:09 .

[Wayning_Star]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Saren, TIM, the Reapers. All synthesis.

Saren only cares about Saren, Kind of like TIM, but not for helping humans to help TIM. The reaperships were into harvest, synthesis isn't in their vocabulary.

so no, not any of those were defenders of synthesis, their characters weren't even privy to that option, all were indoctrinated and that would mean that the catalyst was defender of synthesis, and everyone, by now, understands that the catlyst didn't care in the least what choice Shep makes. The crucible addition proves that, as the choices appear after it's connection according to the catalyst and Shepard for that matter.

Edi might consider synthesis, if Shep told her it was OK...like most others who hired him/her for that job.

[Enhanced]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Saren, TIM, the Reapers. All synthesis.

..and whoever helped design the Crucible. Maybe they were indoctrinated also, even though the Catalyst didn't want anything to do with the Crucible. Right?

Modifié par Enhanced, 12 février 2013 - 04:13 .

[Wayning_Star]

mvaning wrote...

 EDI and Shepard have some interesting banter about Trans-humans. This is right after Sur'kesh.

"EDI : Mordin sent me a nicely crafted message. It seems he recalls our conversations about the Salarian's equivalent of Trans-humans.

Shepard: If I could I'd stop you right --

EDI: Trans-humans have some of their brain's abilities, such as memory, supplemented or entirely replaced by cybernetics. Legal definitions vary from planet to planet. Salarians embrace the concept. Humans have diverse and contentious opinions.

Shepard: Do my implants make me a Trans-human?

EDI: That would be telling.

Shepard: What??

EDI: I'm sorry, that was a joke. You are fully human. Cerberus extensively reconstructed you but your brain fuctions are organic.

Shepard: Don't ever do that again! "


Shepard obviously really loves the idea of Trans-humanism.

I've considered synthesis as more transnatural, not just transhumanist. The idea of tinkering with the basis of nature is more than dissiing organic nervous systems.

I enjoyed that banter as well, I liked it when Edi told Shep she 'considered' the concept taking over humans..like in reapers...Shep about had kittens over that..joke.

Too much Joker,not enough circuits/programming?

[BleedingUranium]

humes spork wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

I don't understand how people can completely trust what he says about one choice (Destroy) , but not another (Synthesis).

Well, first of all, was Destroy ever endorsed by a major indoctrinated villain in the game?  No.  But Control and Synthesis were.

Let's add "how people can remember at the drop of the hat TIM is indoctrinated and therefore serving the Reapers when it comes to the end, but not when it comes to the Cerberus coup" to the list of "wait, what?" things, too.

But that's tangential.

He was always serving the Reapers. The coup took place at the same time the Reapers started massing in London, Anderson says they're planning something big.

Later, the Reapers finally do take control of it Citadel and move it to Earth and connect it to the beam they'd already built in London. Anderson then mentions that we now know what they were planning.

[mvaning]

BleedingUranium wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Let's
add "how people can remember at the drop of the hat TIM is
indoctrinated and therefore serving the Reapers when it comes to the
end, but not when it comes to the Cerberus coup" to the list of "wait,
what?" things, too.

But that's tangential.

He was
always serving the Reapers. The coup took place at the same time the
Reapers started massing in London, Anderson says they're planning
something big.

I would guess the indoctrination began when he picked up that dead reaper from the destroyed/salvaged collector base.    I don't think that he knew that the Catalyst was (in) the Citadel until after Thessia though.    That doesn't mean that the reapers didn't give him another motivation to invade.

Wayning_Star wrote...

I've considered synthesis as more transnatural, not just transhumanist. The idea of tinkering with the basis of nature is more than dissiing organic nervous systems.

I enjoyed that banter as well, I liked it when Edi told Shep she 'considered' the concept taking over humans..like in reapers...Shep about had kittens over that..joke.

Too much Joker,not enough circuits/programming?

The banter is good.    

I consider trans-humanism as more of a macro involvement of cybernetics.    As an example -- something like a cybernetic arm.   My ear-drum busted when I was 11 and I have a prosthetic eardrum (sounds crazy I know).      I don't see any of that as a fundamental change to being a human. 

The catalyst describes Synthesis as a "new DNA" which to me sounds like a fundamental change in what the human-being is. 

Modifié par mvaning, 12 février 2013 - 04:42 .