258 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodsongVengeance]

heyas;



i think that anyone's opinion on whether 'sp campaigns gave nwn its longevity' or the 'mp theatre gave nwn its longevity' depends on your experience.



my experience is this: i never even played the original campaigns (nwn, sou, hou). i did play a few single player mods (adam miller's, and pirates of the sword coast, and the wyvern crown of corymr.) what i did instead was go online on my and my friends' servers. we'd go freeform rp on persistant worlds, get into pvp social worlds, etc etc. so for me, single player might as well not have existed. i dont know of any single player game that is posted on the nwn gamespy for people to connect to. so, to me, that gamespy screen is my nwn.



obviously, there were a lot of sp modules created by people as well. do people still download and play those? i dont know. but people still log in and play on the nwn servers; that i DO know.





one of the first things i thought when i started playing dao was... wow, this is fantastic! i wish i could play it with my friend. yeah.... sure, only one person can do the dialogues and all, but we can roleplay with each other!! see, that's the cool thing. non-pre-scripted dialogues.

some of you dont see the value in being an alistair-style sidekick. i wouldnt mind that so much. we could read/watch the dialogues, discuss them amongst our characters, then pick the selection that most closely matches what we decided.





anyway, the big hurdle i see, being TOTALLY technically ignorant is... there's no chat console! gah!





i think dao is insanely well-done and well put-together as a single player game. if leaving out mp code let them do that, then i'm all for it. i am enjoying it fully.



i can also see playing the game with a small group of friends, with us playing the characters. yeah, the npcs. there are some games that have pre-generated characters you play. they're good characters, i wouldn't mind playing a few of em.



i can't see making it an open pick-up mp game. or even a 20-person persistant world nwn-style server. a dm client, and a chat console; that would rock.



mmorpg? those suck. who said they go there for the stories? there's stories in those things??? ive played guild wards, and a little of dnd online.... nobody on those things takes rp seriously. plus there's like ONE path through the story. 'do you want this quest?' 'yes. no.' and no isn't really an option, if you want to get to the next part of the world.





anyway, im in the mp camp. but i am NOT in the mmorpg camp!

[LovelyMover]

AndarianTD wrote...

LovelyMover wrote...

Dismissing MP as adding to a games logevity...

Perhaps you should try to read my remarks more carefully. I wrote:

AndarianTD wrote...

I'll agree that MP did contribute to extending the lifespan of NWN, but it was neither the only nor do I think it was the major factor that did so.

That is NOT "dismissing MP as adding to a game's longevity."

...and then saying it was really the SP mods that was the reason is a little like saying "your wrong because I'm right"  there's no basis behind it other than your opnion differing with mine.

For the record there's plenty of basis for saying that. It includes the market research that Challseus cited on the previous page, as well as my own experience as Chairman of the Academy for Modding Excellence. We had to give up trying to do even ONE Multiplayer Module Golden Dragon Award for NWN and NWN2 because of a lack of members from the community willing to participate. By contrast we gave out GDAs in four SP module categories.
 
Then there's Bioware's decision to build DA as an SP game with such an extensive toolset. I participated in Bioware's "Builder Event" this summer, and they explained that part of their reason for putting as many resources as they have into the DA toolset was because of their recognition of how a robust modding community helped extend the life of NWN, and how it could do even more for DA with the right support ("give it a long tail," I think was the jargon).  

I could go on, but I'm not sure I see the point (and especially not if you won't read my remarks accurately before responding to them). I'm not trying to dismiss the MP community; I'm just getting a little tired of seeing some MP boosters trying to dismiss the SP community.

d00d "not the MAJOR factor" implies that SP mod's were !  It's as black & white as traditional chess set, so spare me the pointless word game oneupmanship. 

I'm not trying to knock the people who make mods, I played a shedload of them, and spent 3 years locked into a NWN game concept developed by players on a server.

You can quote the "builder event" marketing pitch from Bioware all you want, the simple fact is that companies have two ways to go atm, SP with toolkits, where they sell updates via DLC, (essentially expanding the kit), or MMO where they charge fee's for something their target group will not pay-play for, and where they're butt raped from the start because of  their competition.  There is a middle road that keeps everyone happy, and ignoring that simple mo'fo fact doesn't make it go away, it just alienates a whole bunch of people.

[Rhumor]

I don't know if it's been mentioned in a previous post...I came into this thread late and 10 pages of posts is a lot of reading...but if multiplayer for DA:O is not an option, I'd love to see them upgrade NWN with the engine DA:O uses so that it would look better. The only reason I don't still play NWN is because I get attached to the sweet graphics of the newer games.

[Jokemeister]

LovelyMover wrote...
d00d "not the MAJOR factor" implies that SP mod's were !  It's as black & white as traditional chess set, so spare me the pointless word game oneupmanship. 

I'm not trying to knock the people who make mods, I played a shedload of them, and spent 3 years locked into a NWN game concept developed by players on a server.

You can quote the "builder event" marketing pitch from Bioware all you want, the simple fact is that companies have two ways to go atm, SP with toolkits, where they sell updates via DLC, (essentially expanding the kit), or MMO where they charge fee's for something their target group will not pay-play for, and where they're butt raped from the start because of  their competition.  There is a middle road that keeps everyone happy, and ignoring that simple mo'fo fact doesn't make it go away, it just alienates a whole bunch of people.

I know that Andarian can defend his own arguments but I had to respond to this.

Its not a pointless word game oneupmanship.  Just because Andarian believes that SP mods were the bigger factor in prolonging the life of NWN doesn't mean that he dismisses the impact of MP (which is in fact what you appear to be doing but from the opposite side).  The reality is that either SP or MP will be the bigger factor as realistically, its not very likely that both contributed exactly 50% to the longevity of NWN.  Recognising that one factor contributed more doesn't mean that the other factor didn't contribute at all.

If you don't understand that, the only thing I can suggest is for you to look up the meaning of the word "dismiss" in a dictionary as it was clear to me from his words that he didn't dismiss MP at all.

As to whether SP or MP contributed more overall, this is something which only BioWare can ever really know.  I do seem to recall (but can't find it in the forums so feel free to disregard this until someone can find the link) one of the BioWare bods saying that the majority of NWN players didn't play MP.  Couple with Andarian's experience with the NWN mod awards, it seems he has a reasonable basis for his belief beyond just his own playing experience.

[Rocket Jones]

You guys are all a bunch of nerds. lol

If this game goes multiplayer it will have more success than NWN had.

I'm willing to bet DAO was going to use the NWN2 multiplayer, but when they saw the fail that generated well...

Now lets hope they are designing a multiplayer version that works.

[Du Uncanny]

Hylan Dronta wrote...

I hope DA never gets MP. In NWN I hate running accross an NPC and guess what? That other person clicked on him/got near him first. So now I have to sit there and hope the other person makes the decisions I would. Honestly, isn't MP what the PnP is being made for?

Oh my.. you've not played PW's at all have you?

My brother made a statement a long time back (just before NWN2 got released).  "Make the PW concept as easy - or easier - as NWN1 and you'll have your bestseller".  This was outside of Bio's control - the same company that ruined Kotor ruined the NWN franchise by ignoring that one statement.
Now look at NWN1 - it's still in the top 10 of all gamespy online content, competing with new FPS games.  And it's, what, 8 years old?  NWN2 is barely on the list.

Games today need to give players more than just a single player environment.  The singleplayer style gets the player hooked when it's hot.  The multiplayer advantage is why it gets played after it's graphics are long since washed out.

The excuse of "what about console players" isn't really good either.  Why not make online play require a  headset - just like console games do - with a few extra features.  Crumbs, you could even hook the gameplay engine into TeamSpeak and allow PW's to create their own channel for gameplay.  With Teamspeak you also get text controls, so you could even cross the divide with people that don't have headsets (display the text ingame instead of over speaker).
Now THAT would be an awesome thing to behold.

Will I buy DA:O?  Eh.  Maybe.  It'd be an interesting diversion from the NWN1 PW I still play on for a few weeks I guess..:happy:

Modifié par Du Uncanny, 08 décembre 2009 - 06:24 .

[DFM2005]

I don't think bioware has a good game planner anymore because some of the crap they did and didn't do doesn't make any sense to me.

Witcher has epic graphics right? Next title DOA released for 2009 look like a slight upgrade to never winter nights 2? That wouldn't have mattered to me had the game play had been complete, it isn't because I can't play with friends on multiplayer.

I have 15 people i'd like to play with on multiplayer with this game, none of them will even buy this game since it doesn't.

However they all own witcher, it was completley worth buying had a great story perfect graphics but no multiplayer. Is it that difficult to make these games multiplayer?

Build a lobby, put the net socket protocols in there put about 2 pages worth of code and multiplayer is born?

I think there was a place where i could start a vote i'm going to ask people what would they rather have. The new expansion for dragon age or a patch that will allow this game or even possibly witcher a multiplayer option.

Things to note Fable 2 great game, also sucky multiplayer, had Dragon Age added multiplayer for this game it would of been the best or atleast the most worth while playing RPG for multiplayer on console.

I'm done now.

[DFM2005]

social.bioware.com/133532/polls/1094/

Modifié par DFM2005, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:53 .

[Aslend]

I would merely desire to host a server for DA:O as I currently do for NWN and NWN2, then I could have a far better response to folks desiring to test their mods "live". At the moment, getting any kind of assistance to building a mod is difficult, based on the current DA:O engine and game model.

[Godak]

I'm going to go stab a wall. Who's with me?!



Dragon Age sorta turned back a page...I mean, NWN and BG2 both had multi-player options! Sure, only one player could choose chat options, but the best workaround is to have players take a vote. No, you won't be able to do that with randoms, but really, how often did you play randoms?:

[Schneidend]

Baldur's Gate. Icewind Dale. All you need is simple TCP/IP and LAN support for the single-player campaign. No muss, no fuss, and it avoids this "it'd ruin the SP because it's story-driven" nonsense.

[Eisberg1977]

Bioware decided to not do MP, since in their past games MP was not all that popular. NWN only had less then 5% of their player base play the MP more then once, this was according to Bioware themselves. They decided to to spend 100% of their resources/money on making a single player game, rather then sharing those resources/money with MP that a small minority will actually play more then once.

[ladydesire]

Schneidend wrote...

Baldur's Gate. Icewind Dale. All you need is simple TCP/IP and LAN support for the single-player campaign. No muss, no fuss, and it avoids this "it'd ruin the SP because it's story-driven" nonsense.

Were the companions in those games required to complete the main plot? If not, then there is a little bit more to it than just the connectivity, since in many current games the companions are critical to the story itself. You're also ignoring the fact that much of the user interface is designed with the assumption that you are traveling with NPC companions (or is the ability to change their gear something you overlooked?). Despite continued claims by players (even I used to believe this), Neverwinter Nights was not intended to be a simple showcase of what you could do with the toolset, nor was multiplayer the sole focus of the game engine; just because the OC wasn't up to the standards that later expansions were doesn't mean that Bioware changed focus from the first to the later ones.

[Superskurken]

A huge disappointment when I realised DAO had no multiplayer option, I didnt even think of this as a possibility... away in the closet until they ables it for multiplayer, if they do...

[SuperFly_2000]

Eisberg1977 wrote...
Bioware decided to not do MP, since in their past games MP was not all that popular. NWN only had less then 5% of their player base play the MP more then once, this was according to Bioware themselves. They decided to to spend 100% of their resources/money on making a single player game, rather then sharing those resources/money with MP that a small minority will actually play more then once.

Maybe this is right even though it sounds a bit low.

If you look at the amount of hours played though...I think your normal Persistent World player spent more hours with the game.

So this makes for a lot built up "need" that is perhaps not visible in sales and such.

Just look at the innovative game WoW (it was innovative when it was released at least), it took a huge chunk of the NWN online players and also of course incredible amount of other players that COULD have been interested in something more NWN-like....if that was avaliable.

Just saying that the market for comupter games is changing. Even though the single player market is still huge and growing there is a new market to be reconned with.

[LadyDrusilla]

I hope not, its been so nice having an immersive story driven single player game. It has really made me realise how disillusioned I've become with mmos and MP orientated games.

[SuperFly_2000]

Well LadyDrusilla, as I have pointed a lot of times here in the forum this is nothing that will take away or reduce the single player experience for you....

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 12 janvier 2010 - 01:45 .

[mpdivo]

Just throwing my vote in here too : really hoping that Bioware adds an expansion that will allow multi-player in the same model as NWN.



Some REALLY greedy people on this forum!

[k9medusa]

It's not possible without the source code. Even with the source code, it'd be really difficult and never any good. An engine must be built from the ground up for multiplayer. 



Has it be confirmed that the engine is not multiplayer
as an option? Bioware does built engines for many many different games, so
the engine can have that option, but not enable DAO yet.  



I was thinking about nwn1 & 2, the muti-player
for the OC sucks, -- player built words rock (well majorly of the time anyways)
I just want a muti-player option to play player content with other people, not to
play DAO OC.

Modifié par k9medusa, 09 mars 2010 - 05:49 .

[k9medusa]

AzmodantheRed wrote...

Viz79 wrote...

Anything is possible - remember the NWN development team are responsible for this game and they KNOW how much of a difference MP gaming made for Neverwinter Nights. The Dungeonmaster toolkit meant I experienced incredible RP moments for years in that game - not only playing in other people's campaigns but running my own. I can't begin to explain to you what its like to imagine and build an adventure, and then take six people through it who are all roleplaying their hearts out. When they interact with npcs, the dungeonmasters possess and roleplay them etc - the world is totally dynamic, immersive and anything is possible. Imagine playing DA when your companions have full non scripted conversations and any action is a possibility (just ask the DM and he will decide on possibilities and do correct dice rolls). It was that amazing.

If DA becomes successful - who knows. Maybe there could be DLC that allows online play and a DM toolkit. I know there is a whole community of NWN players that would cry in happiness at the prospect. And these are pure roleplayers through and through.

Seconded.

People seem to confuse this with Multiplayer co-op, or an MMO.

Really things like the NWN persistent worlds made me play NWN for years.  It does not detract from the single experience one bit. It ADDS so much more playability. 
To enjoy the game in different settings and worlds under your liking. To Roleplay with friends and other players. Or just wage war and mess around in a roleplay light setting.


How much extra work would it mean for Bioware?? give a good toolset and the possibility of multiplayer clients and the mod community will take it from there?


If not in this game. i really hope they think of it in future games. This set-up was perfect for this D&D based game.
Far superior from an MMO as you can tailor the game to your liking and create new stories and worlds constantly.

I feel the same way. I don't want a muti-player for the OC, but DO WANT a cleint to play other people worlds

[Loc'n'lol]

I don't see it happening with this game (though who knows... it may convince people who pirated the game to buy a legitimate copy...), but I sure hope they'll do something for future games...

[Troshynski]

I would LOVE a multiplayer on DA:0!!! I look forwards to it if it ever happens. I think this game could have multiplayer easily, but then yes, you could switch to your own private "server" and play the game without other people if you choose to. I personally have already beaten the game like most of you, and I was dissapointed there was not more. I think the game could also be better if you could go back to previous places in the game, like a sandbox type game, except of course that you have to complete the quests in the right order of course. Maybe a World of Warcraft type game would be fun?

[sb.seed]

good lord i hope there will be a multi-player style built from what NWN1-2 had or even better the way multi-player was setup for the original Bioware games for balders gate titles ... that was pretty sweet because you didn't have have to have the in-game 'members' to foul you up though they have come light years in the respect of AI so i wouldn't be too worried about that...



GIVE ME MULTI-PLAYER/CO-OP OR GIVE ME DEATH!

[AlanC9]

OK, death works for me.

[Zottle]

If you've ever stepped into DA's toolset, you'd know that DA is not the kind of game you want "NWNified". Unlike NWN, DA pretty much takes a bioware-quality team of developers to create anything worth playing.