258 réponses à ce sujet

[Viz79]

Well it didn't because NWN provided some of the best RPG moments due to the fact in brought pen and paper gaming to PCs and people like myself had amazing moments RPing with other players in a totally immersive environment (faciliated by dungeonmasters roleplaying npcs etc). The only problem was that only a small percentage of the player base ever played a single DM game!



The irony of NWN is that the vast majority of players never ventured online to see JUST how good it could get. Yet NWN is still popular years later because this same online community refuses to go away - the persistant worlds are home to thousands of players all enjoying the homes they have and the DMed games continue to run with their players continuing their adventures with their group.



NWN was/is amazing and DA was created in the Aurora engine of NWN as planning for the actual game (see developer walkthrough video to see that) so in truth it almost guaranteed that at some point, the same tools that allowed people to create MP modules will appear here (heck in DA you can ALREADY create a module for MP play, its just that the functionality to allow multiple players is not in yet. But it would just as NWN would - the only addition Bioware need to make apart from this is to add a DM toolkit but they can utilise a similar one to the tried and tested NWN one).



It will come, mark my words. I know because the same devs that made NWN experienced the rpg goodness of online DMed games as I did, and I am sure they dont want that to die with Neverwinter.

[Silentplanet]

I personally hope they will bring in multiplayer, even if it's in an expansion or DLC down the track. It doesnt have to have the single player component co-op but maybe instead be released with a module or two to play multiplayer.. of bioware standards.. WOW that would be cool

[SheffSteel]

Although I very much want to be able to play a Dragon Age game in co-op form, I have to admit that Andarian's right about the tradeoffs in building a multiplayer engine. If DA:O gained multiplayer support, I think it would probably have to take the form of a separate executable - another game, essentially, that used the same data files and looked similar. I think it is most likely to take the form of premium DLC, and I don't think we'll see it any time soon.

[DeaconX]

Silentplanet wrote...

I personally hope they will bring in multiplayer, even if it's in an expansion or DLC down the track. It doesnt have to have the single player component co-op but maybe instead be released with a module or two to play multiplayer.. of bioware standards.. WOW that would be cool

I know my friends and I would surely enjoy it.

[lavosslayer]

AndarianTD wrote...

AzmodantheRed wrote...

NWN expansions had a far better story. This shows good SP alongside MP is not an impossibility.

Sigh. WIth all due respect, Azmodan, I don't think you really understand what you're talking about here.

Dramatic and strongly story-oriented SP is not just about having a decent story. It's about having a software infrastructure that's built around providing the features that make it easier to tell a story in a certain kind of way. There are things that you can do, for example in terms of providing the kind of tighter dramatic control over actions and events that make for a better SP game experience, if your engine isn't simultaneously designed around the need to provide distributed control by coordinating multiple participants over a network. When you tightly design the features into the engine that you need to support one kind of play and not the other, you end up with a better game for that kind of play.

Have you ever heard the term "bloatware?" Again and with all due respect, that's what happens when software engineers start thinking the way you have on this thread. Someone wants three new features that are inconsistent with design? No problem, graft them on or shoehorn them in. Triple the size of the code base, and reduce performance by 40%? Sure, no problem. That's what you get if your goal is to try to be everything to everyone and efficiency is no object. I have to fight against that mindset regularly at work, which is probably one of the reasons why I'm motivated to comment on it here.

Have you looked at the recommended system specs for DA? They're actually a step down from NWN2, despite the game being released three years later and with new technology, a more powerful toolset and a lot of new features. That's what happens when designers and programmers exercise some discipline in building a system that keeps to a specific vision of what they want it to accomplish -- instead of bloating it by trying to be all things to all people, as you seem to be encouraging. From what I saw at the Builder's Event, the engine is fast and lean compared to NWN2 (the game starts in a fraction of the time, for example). And what that should mean for builders is that they will have a lot more computer resources available to create complex scenarios before running up against player system limitations.
 
That's just one example of the kind of tradeoff that good software engineers have to make all the time in developing a system. I get that you and some others are disappointed that DA isn't designed to support the kind of MP play that you prefer -- and I sympathize, even if I don't share those feelings. I hope that someone develops a more modern version of NWN for folks like you that's streamlined for MP play (which I've heard rumors that Atari may be trying to do). But people need to be realistic about the realities of product design, software included. And in my opinion, we need to get past the tendency to respond to every criticism by saying "OK, I'll add that feature in to make you happy." We need to learn how to say instead, "No, if you want to do that, then you need a system that's designed to do that, and ours isn't." The end result will be better products and happier customers all around.

My 2 cents, and with that I think I've said all that I need to on this thread.

Actually thats not true.

The minimum system requirements for Neverwinter Nights 2 are:

Windows XP
512MB System RAM
2 GHz Intel Pentium 4 or equivalent processor
128MB Direct3D compatible video card with DirectX 9.0c compatible driver
CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive
4.6GB free hard disk space
DirectX 9.0c (included)
DirectX 8.1 compatible sound card
Microsoft .NET 2.0 Framework for toolset (included)
Broadband connection for multiplayer online play
Keyboard, Mouse


Atari recommend using a system that also meets the following:

3 GHz Intel Pentium 4 or equivalent processor
1GB System RAM
ATI Radeon X800 series, NVIDIA GeForce 6800 series or better video card



Neverwinter Nights 2 supports the following video cards:

- ATI Radeon X700, X600, X300 series
- ATI Radeon 9800, 9600, 9500 series
- NVIDIA GeForce 7900, 7800, 7600, 7300 series
- NVIDIA GeForce 6800, 6600, 6500, 6200, 6100 series
- NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900, 5700, 5600, 5500 series


Dragon Age: Origins System Specifications are:

Windows XP Minimum Specifications

* OS: Windows XP with SP3
* CPU: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.4Ghz or greater
* AMD X2 (or equivalent) running at 1.8Ghz or greater
* RAM: 1GB or more
* Video: ATI Radeon X850 128MB or greater
* NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT 128MB or greater
* DVD ROM (Physical copy)
* 20 GB HD space

Windows Vista Minimum Specifications

* OS: Windows Vista with SP1
* CPU: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.6Ghz or greater
* AMD X2 (or equivalent) running at 2.2GHZ or greater
* RAM: 1.5 GB or more
* Video: ATI Radeon X1550 256MB or greater
* NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB or greater
* DVD ROM (Physical copy)
* 20 GB HD space

Recommended Specifications

* CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz Processor or equivalent
* RAM: 4 GB (Vista) or 2 GB (XP)
* Video: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater
* NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater
* DVD ROM (Physical copy)
* 20 GB HD space


Don't know what your calling a step down but from what I can tell the minimum requirements for DAO are like the recommended requirements for NWN2...

[AndarianTD]

lavosslayer: I only have time for a couple of quick comments right now:

1) A fairer comparison would be between the system specs -at release- for both games. See here for NWN2's:

http://nwn2forums.bi...33511&forum=116

Those are the ones I remembered from when I bought the game, and had to buy a new PC to just barely meet the 2.4 ghz minimum CPU requirement.

2) The NWN2 engine doesn't support multiple cores. That means that if you have a dual core cpu at 1.6 ghz, it doesn't even come close to meeting the minimum requirements for NWN2 because the second core is wasted. Not so for Dragon Age.

So yes, I call that a step down. Perhaps not a big step down, and not across the board. But my point remains: Dragon Age is designed to use modern computer resources efficiently, and I would argue more so than Neverwinter Nights 2. That's not necessarily a slam of NWN2, which I like, but rather a compliment to DA's design. That was my point in raising the issue: that the efficient use of computer resources matters when you're designing a good game, and that adding features to please everyone often leads to bloatware instead.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 20 octobre 2009 - 08:59 .

[SyntheticC]

Just show me a petition to sign to atleast try and convince Bioware to have a team set aside to try to work out making this game multiplayer (atleast Co-op) compatible.

[friendlyfire]

Just casting my vote ;-) I'll buy DA:O when it supports MP, until then I'll still be playing NWN1.

[whydoesanyrandomnameIputinalreadyexist]

A modding community is a good thing in any game, but multiplayer is essential these days, single player games are SO lonely after mmo's. I want a game I can play with my friends that actually finishes. At least allow the capacity for modders to make multiplayer alterations and let people decide for themselves whether they do it alone or with friends.

[casadechrisso]

I didn't read through all 7 pages, but from the comments at the first ones I gather that yet again many people really haven't taken a closer look at NWN1/2's multiplayer.

• It's not in any way comparable to MMOs and 1337 kiddies. There is not one single Bioware-hosted world everyone has to play on and accept as given. If you find a world full of them and don't like it, go to the next server, there are hundreds.
• It's also not about the Co-op. Many games have Co-op, and while it might be fun to play the Campaigns with friends, it's by no means necessary or what set NWN apart from other games.

For me, NWN1/2 are the ideal (and today only acceptable) way of multiplayer. You have choices, a lot of choices. There are countless different servers that cater every niche, a roleplayer can have immense roleplay and an immersive experience on one world, while a dedicated grinder and adventurer can have a lot of fun on another. You can choose a World that caters your needs, with players that share your own preferences, and if you think you can do it better, you start making your own world from scratch and make a server exactly as you like it.
The co-op options for the campaigns are just a nice goodie, but not what multiplayer in NWN is all about.

Anyway, Dragon Age disapponted a lot of people here. A lot of friends and people I know from NWN1/2, players and builders alike, all say the same: "If it had multiplayer, I'd switch immediately. "
Hell, even I would. I was building a NWN1 server for ages, switched to NWN2 and continued there, but if Dragon Age offered a way, I'd switch immediately. However, as it turns out this will just be another good Bioware story, a game that keeps me occupied for a week or two just like Mass Effect, which will probably leave a lasting impression, but... it will not give me all those years of fun I had playing with others on the wonderful persistant worlds out there. NWN1 was really the game that changed my whole gaming life with this unique multiplayer, and besides NWN2 there's still no other game that can keep up to that. All those who still just talk about playing the campaign together or watching 1337 kiddies and griefers should really take another look at it, they've seen nothing. <_<

[molo67]

First, I don't understand why anyone would be against  including a multiplayer aspect... I f you don't want to play multiplayer, then just don't. But you probably don't know what you'd be missing.

Imho the ability to adventure with friends in this type of game is the one feature that's been missing from "next gen" rpgs for years. NWN was for me the greatest game of all time - and it had little to do with a great single player campaign or nice graphics... not that I'm putting those aspects down either.  I totally enjoyed games like KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, & Fallout 3 etc. But they're all pretty much finite beyond a replay of the same story or extra missions.

With multiplayer,  NWN transcended simple gaming to an ongoing experience that held my interest for years  - with a game that otherwise would have been uninstalled and eventually forgotten.

Instead I bought all the expansions, premium modules, plus multiple copies for friends and family.  I made new friends and reconnected with old ones, and had tons of fun playing as various characters in different adventures with (or against) companions who were not pre-scripted NPCs but full characters played by other people.  If you haven't had the chance to experience gameplay like that with good players, you really don't know what you're missing  whether it's in a PW or a simple dungeon crawl with friends (not to be confused with an MMO experience - a different animal altogether).

As the OP put it, Co-op is what would add a tremendous deal to the game. A DM client would be fantastic, but I'd be more than pleased over Co-op!

NWN was the game that popped my multiplayer cherry and I've been consistently disappointed with the lack of mp in subsequent releases of otherwise great games. Dragon Age may be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, but don't forget BG had multiplayer capability, didn't it?

Will DAO be the game to make co-op adventuring a reality? I for one hope so, because as good as these games can be, they  still lack that magic ingredient that lowly, dated NWN still has. At least consider a multiplayer Dragon Age sequel!

Modifié par molo67, 19 novembre 2009 - 03:10 .

[AndarianTD]

molo67: if you want to understand why someone would be against adding multiplayer to Dragon Age, then all I can suggest is that you read our comments. As a software developer I know what happens to systems when you try to be "all things to all people" and graft architecturally incompatible elements (such as SP and MP) into a single design. You generally get inefficient bloatware that doesn't do anything especially well. I don't want to see that happen to DA's ability to deliver an amazing SP experience, which is partly a result of the unity of purpose of the game's design. That's why I'm firmly against extending DA to support MP, and why I don't think it will happen. If it does, it will almost certainly compromise the game's performance and ability to deliver as an SP engine.

As I said before, I hope that some company comes out with the kind of MP game architecture that you and other CO-OP aficianados would like to see. There's talk that Atari is trying to do something like that with Neverwinter Nights, which I think would make a lot more sense. But it shouldn't be done with Dragon Age. This is a different kind of game designed for a different kind of play experience.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 19 novembre 2009 - 04:00 .

[AndarianTD]

molo67 wrote...

Imho the ability to adventure with friends in this type of game is the one feature that's been missing from "next gen" rpgs for years. NWN was for me the greatest game of all time - and it had little to do with a great single player campaign or nice graphics... not that I'm putting those aspects down either.  I totally enjoyed games like KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, & Fallout 3 etc. But they're all pretty much finite beyond a replay of the same story or extra missions.

I keep seeing this sentiment expressed, and I have to say with all due respect that I really am baffled by it. There's nothing wrong with preferring MP play if that's what you like, but it's patently false to assert that the NWN SP experience was somehow "finite" beyond a replay of the OC. There are literally hundreds of high-quality modder-developed SP adventures available for NWN, and there have been for years. Are there really so many members of the NWN MP player community who are unaware of this incredible wealth of SP material?    

With multiplayer,  NWN transcended simple gaming to an ongoing experience that held my interest for years  - with a game that otherwise would have been uninstalled and eventually forgotten.

As an NWN SP modder myself, that's exactly my opinion not of NWN as an MP game, but as a modding environment for playing a nearly endless supply of SP adventures.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 19 novembre 2009 - 04:14 .

[BlueEyes_Austin]

Andarian, I think you make a very important point. It is absolutely astonishing to me that the NWN and NWN2 engines were never able to deliver the smooth performance at any stage in their life cycle that DA can deliver at launch. Without being able to look at the code, I believe that one of the major reasons for this vastly superior optimization is that there is no MP involved.



A couple of other comments. First, multiplayer in BG2 is in no way, shape, or form comparable to the challenge of that feature in a 3-D and rendered environment. The development task (and engine hit) to deliver the experience is orders of magnitude lower. Second, for all their good points, NWN/NWN2 are terribly flawed games. For example, neither does a decent job at handling multiple characters in a party...NWN is appalling while NWN2 manages only marginal acceptability.



Almost all of the flaws of the entire NWN series can be traced back to Bioware's decision to try to do too much with the Aurora engine. It handicapped the development of their party-based RPGs for years. My first reaction on playing DA was that they finally, finally put themselves back on the BG2 path and off of the NWN detour.

[Ezohiguma]

MP and MMO are NOT the same. Period.



Co-op would be nice though.

[AndarianTD]

BlueEyes_Austin wrote...

Andarian, I think you make a very important point. It is absolutely astonishing to me that the NWN and NWN2 engines were never able to deliver the smooth performance at any stage in their life cycle that DA can deliver at launch. Without being able to look at the code, I believe that one of the major reasons for this vastly superior optimization is that there is no MP involved.

A couple of other comments. First, multiplayer in BG2 is in no way, shape, or form comparable to the challenge of that feature in a 3-D and rendered environment. The development task (and engine hit) to deliver the experience is orders of magnitude lower. Second, for all their good points, NWN/NWN2 are terribly flawed games. For example, neither does a decent job at handling multiple characters in a party...NWN is appalling while NWN2 manages only marginal acceptability.

Almost all of the flaws of the entire NWN series can be traced back to Bioware's decision to try to do too much with the Aurora engine. It handicapped the development of their party-based RPGs for years. My first reaction on playing DA was that they finally, finally put themselves back on the BG2 path and off of the NWN detour.

This is right on the mark, and I couldn't agree more with everything that you say here. Well put!

The only reason NWN runs well now is that the engine and standard custom content were developed for seven year old hardware. If you push it or try to use newer, more complex, community developed custom content, it's not hard to start to hit performance limits again. NWN2 is graphically much better but had very high-end system requirements, and is a huge resource hog. By comparison Dragon Age is fast and efficient, and loads quickly and runs smoothly for me with settings pegged to the max. And so far the savegames are light as a feather at a few MB each uncompressed.

Then there's the game architecture. I build NWN mods, was on the DA Toolset Beta team, and used to develop distributed (networked) 3D VR applications -- so while I haven't seen the code either, I have some idea of what goes into these things. From what I've seen DA is much better designed for SP development than NWN was. With NWN's engine you were never 100% sure how something would work out, but with DA you can script a cutscene to happen exactly as you want it to. I'm pretty sure that's a result of the fact that DA didn't have to have the kind of distributed architecture that's needed for an MP game. And your point about the increased complexity of 3D vs. 2D applications in a distributed environment ought to go without saying.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 19 novembre 2009 - 06:36 .

[Timendainum]

No multiplayer, there is no reason for me to buy it. Sad too, NWN ruled, it would have been great to have a modern version.

[molo67]

AndarianTD wrote...

molo67 wrote...

Imho the ability to adventure with friends in this type of game is the one feature that's been missing from "next gen" rpgs for years. NWN was for me the greatest game of all time - and it had little to do with a great single player campaign or nice graphics... not that I'm putting those aspects down either.  I totally enjoyed games like KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, & Fallout 3 etc. But they're all pretty much finite beyond a replay of the same story or extra missions.

I keep seeing this sentiment expressed, and I have to say with all due respect that I really am baffled by it. There's nothing wrong with preferring MP play if that's what you like, but it's patently false to assert that the NWN SP experience was somehow "finite" beyond a replay of the OC. There are literally hundreds of high-quality modder-developed SP adventures available for NWN, and there have been for years. Are there really so many members of the NWN MP player community who are unaware of this incredible wealth of SP material?    

With multiplayer,  NWN transcended simple gaming to an ongoing experience that held my interest for years  - with a game that otherwise would have been uninstalled and eventually forgotten.

As an NWN SP modder myself, that's exactly my opinion not of NWN as an MP game, but as a modding environment for playing a nearly endless supply of SP adventures.

I think you're missing precicely what my sentiment was. But first I want to reiterate that I do appreciate the single player experience, which is why I listed some examples of some great sp games. However, it is the single player experience itself that is "finite" in my opinion, so it is irrelevant to my point that there is an endless supply of  them. (I have added to that supply myself, btw, and have enjoyed the works of others too).


Anyway, the reason I'm responding is because I sincerely don't want you or anyone else to be baffled by what some see as a limitation of the sp experience; a limitation that is lifted in a multiplayer environment. My hope is that more people will try multiplayer RPGaming and enjoy it, since I found it ultimately an enriching experience (corny-sounding, I know, but truthful). Let's forget the word "finite" first, and I will attempt  to explain my perspective better.


I was a contented single-player who never bothered to click on the multiplayer tab of any game. Then came NWN, with promises of a great mp D&D experience  ... I still didn't click on the multiplayer tab...   Anyhoo, I finally did, and it sucked. Servers were constantly down, and the first people I met were jerks.  But I met folks in the chat/waiting room that were encouraging, & eventually I fell in the right place. I had a lot of fun, & kept going back, and it kept getting better over time.  MP NWN became my Game of Choice.


So I can't help but feel that there are many who dismiss multiplayer out of hand (or maybe gave up on it early due to a bad experience) because I was once part  of that group, until I found the right game for me.


On the other hand, dismissing mp because of  technical reasons that it would deteriorate the quality of a single-player campaign is something I can't argue with. So maybe it would be a bad choice for DAO. I don't know, I'm not a programmer. I'm just a role-player looking for a role-playing game. Which brings me back to my explanation...


In even the best single-player rpg, there are always those moments where none of the dialogue options match what you want to say... or you want to ask a question that's not available to ask. Or you want to establish some specific battle tactics with your companions instead of hoping the ai behaves...


These are a few examples of what may be only minor annoyances while playing, and we've lived with them since the beginning of rpgs. So what? The game is still great and we had fun overall.  But enter the right multiplayer game, and these role playing limitations no longer exist.  Here's the catch: like I said in my original post, it depends on playing with good players. That may take some patience to find a gametype and a group that's just right for your playing style, but take it from someone who's been there, it's well worth the trip. I've met quite a few  players who tried it out and fell in love with it.


The campaign will always be heavily scripted, so it's not going to be as liberating during multiplayer vs a DMed module or a persistant world.  The best analogy I can think of is a movie vs a TV series.  A good single player campaign is like a good movie; There's a beginning, a middle, and an end, it's exciting, intense, and draws you in. Playing in a PW is more like a TV series; there are many climaxes, but it keeps unfolding and developing as things progress over a much longer time. Is one better than the other?  I don't think so. That's not really the point.  They both appeal in different ways.   I guess the bottom line is I feel it's something you've got to try out to appreciate.  You won't enjoy a good sp game any less, but you may miss certain nuances.


"Multiplayer" is a broad term with many facets. A mp campaign would be Co-op. There are games that do this well. It typically equates to another player taking over one of the existing companions. Beyond the campaign, there are lots of  mp variations available (Team, PW, Arena, Role Playing, etc. and combinations thereof).  Then there is Call of Duty 4 (and now a sequel), which has excellent single-player and multiplayer - but they are separate.  It doesn't even have co-op in the campaign. Of course it's not an rpg, but it seems reasonable that an rpg could do something similar, maybe Dragon Age could?  Would that be a way to preserve the campaign and still allow us to multiplay our way through a user-crated module?  Wishful thinking, perhaps, but the inclusion of the toolset like NWN got me thinking wishfully


To be honest, I do have my doubts that DAO will ever have mp/co-op like NWN had, but I wanted to be counted in as one with a desire for it, since there hasn't really been anything like it since, and I really want there to be!
(NWN2 doesn't count: they got too many things wrong coming out of the gate )

[AndarianTD]

molo, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've always said that different players have different legitimate preferences in a game, and liking SP, MP or both in an RPG is one of them. The folks who like MP do so for legitimate personal reasons, and I'm not knocking them. I know that in addition to those who came to them directly, many MP CRPG fans who came out of the tradition of tabletop gaming like and are used to the idea of getting together to adventure with a group of real people. I used to be a D&D DM many years ago, so I can understand and relate to all of that. And I've played enough MP in NWN and NWN2 to know what it's like, but that it isn't what I'm mainly interested in from a CRPG.



I don't knock MP play. But I also I wouldn't want folks to knock those (like me) who prefer SP play, or assume that we do so because we haven't tried MP "with really good players" and "just don't know what we're missing." One could turn that same argument around and suggest that maybe MP players "don't know what they're missing" because they haven't tried a "really good SP campaign" -- with a well-designed story, richly drawn NPC and companion personalities, and carefully crafted encounters. I won't offer either argument, although I'm sure there are some people who fit both descriptions. In the end it's about players wanting a certain kind of play experience and seeking it out.



When it comes to CRPGs, I think that some past games may perhaps have set precedents and expectations that we, as builders and players, need to re-examine. NWN and NWN2, by offering both SP and MP, led us to expect to be able to find those experience in the same game and engine. That seems to make some sense when you're building a game on the philosophy of "appealing as much as possible to every kind of player in order to maximize sales of your product." But that "appeal to everyone and be all things to all people" approach also has a serious downside, and it's one that doesn't just apply to game development or even just software development; in fact, I'd argue that it's a general principle for doing or creating anything in life.



I'd put the principle this way. The more you focus on broad appeal, the more you end up having to compromise the quality of your specific appeal. The more you try to offer something to everyone, the less you can offer everything to someone. Something that's designed to do a certain thing can't necessarily be modified to also do something else, just because you may want it to; that may compromise its ability to do anything well. As a software engineer this is something that I constantly have to explain and stress to users and customers, so I'm very aware of and sensitive to this issue.



That's why I think that the industry needs to move away, at least somewhat, from the idea of offering everything that anyone may want in one package. MP vs. SP for Dragon Age is just one example of this issue, and there are others. And that's why I would rather see a separate MP engine for co-op RPG play than see it shoehorned in or grafted on to the DA SP engine.



I also think that in an era of DLC, where the technology is being developed to deliver systems and content that is targted toward specific players' preferences, that this kind of thing will start to make more business sense. It was one thing when you had to rely on people picking up a box in a game store; in that case, it was important to maximize profit by put as much appeal into that box as you could. But the easier it becomes to develop and deliver content to players that are designed to address their specific preferences and to do it well, the more I think that profits will begin to be driven more by doing precisely that.

[Ghandorian]

great writeup Andarian; here's my take on the subject for the tldr crowd.

fact 1: MP co-op is not a HUGE part of the community. Biowares own estimate is around the 5-10% mark for its previous games.

fact 2: The game focuses on the story and not xp groups. MP undermines the design of this particular game. A separate module where characters are exported into a battlefield type situation is the only type of MP I can see working here. Think Ubisoft's Dark Messiah.

Modifié par Ghandorian, 21 novembre 2009 - 03:52 .

[BlarkW]

Just want to put in that MP would be a nice addition. I do know that if it wasn't for MP in games such as NWN1 and 2 would have never bought the next expansion. the MP side of the two games was what kept me coming back to the game; that and the overwhelming fun I had.

[Vigilix]

I haven't read through the entire thread but I just want to express my tremendous disappointment that there is no multiplayer i DA:O. I don't care about multiplayer for the original campaign but not including the option for multiplayer for user-made modules is just insane! Playing NWN on LAN has to be one of the best gaming experiences in my life, that's what NWN was all about for me (don't think I ever played through an entire campaign by myself) and I was really looking forward to DA being the next NWN, unfortunately it doesn't look like thats going to happen

[babyjaws]

Vigilix wrote...

I haven't read through the entire thread but I just want to express my tremendous disappointment that there is no multiplayer i DA:O. I don't care about multiplayer for the original campaign but not including the option for multiplayer for user-made modules is just insane! Playing NWN on LAN has to be one of the best gaming experiences in my life, that's what NWN was all about for me (don't think I ever played through an entire campaign by myself) and I was really looking forward to DA being the next NWN, unfortunately it doesn't look like thats going to happen

I completely Agree and feel the same way....
I think its an absolute disgrace that bioware left out co-op,
having the ability within the toolset wouldnt mess up the single player campaign at all.
its a disgrace,
ill never feel the same about Bioware again,
the amount of people that feel the same way is incredible, ive read hundreds of posts now on different forums
there IS a market for LAN based co-op rpg's
I dont care what anyone says.
and Im ********ed off  with the old "it would have spoiled the SP campaign....etc etc" argument.
HOGWASH

Modifié par babyjaws, 23 novembre 2009 - 06:56 .

[AndarianTD]

eisberg77 wrote...

You call it insane.  I call it one of the best decisions they made for Dragon Age Origins.  NWN wasn't really the best work of Bioware, and I believe that has in large part due to their concentration in MP.  I know the MPers loved NWN, but for Single players it wasn't that great.

I agree. To be fair to NWN, though, the reason for its success was the availability -- for the first time -- of a powerful adventure-building toolset.  That's the part of the NWN legacy that Bioware decided to carry forward to Dragon Age, and for the SP modding community it was the right decision. If they had built a new MP game, it would have been the right decision for the MP community. Trying to include both in the same game, though, would have been the wrong decision for both communities.