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[KiwiQuiche]

I loved her in DAO- mainly due to the fact she didn't dance around words and she spoke her mind. And many of her comments I agreed with, yet she would back off if you could convince her logically or with reason. She wasn't a sullen nutter like Fenris or Anders. Wouldn't mind a male version in DAI. Kinda like this;

[Battlebloodmage]

KiwiQuiche wrote...



Evil is an incredibly broad term- everyone has different views on different issues. That can also change with how they are roleplaying the PC.

Though it is kinda hard to...endorse slavery I admit lol

With Anders some of my Hawkes kill him to save him- the poor guy's mind is fractured and he's pretty much insane. Still, my freedom fighter mage romanced him and fully endorsed destroying the chantry.

Yes, I don't get the big deal with Cullen-he's fairly creepy in DAO, not to mention he kills innoccent apprentices. But apparently loads of people forget that in DA2. He also thinks mages are more akin to animals, lousy bastard. If he is in DAI I hope I can kill him with some of my characters.

What do you mean by creepy? I'm curious. 

If you refer to the ending in DAO, David Gaider stated that most of them are rumors and heresy. Some can be true while others aren't. If Cullen went crazy, killed the mages at the tower, and ran away, he wouldn't be in DA2 under order from the Commander. If he became Knight-Commander, he wouldn't be Knight-Captain in DA2. He thought mages are animals, but that was because of the trauma. He did defend mages during the final confrontation if you sided with the templars. 

[CuriousArtemis]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

He also thinks mages are more akin to animals, lousy bastard.

Not by the end of DA2, which is kind of the reason why people are so fascinated by him. Character growth and all. But not an infallible character. A character with faults.

Which is something BW never fails at 

[Battlebloodmage]

motomotogirl wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

He also thinks mages are more akin to animals, lousy bastard.

Not by the end of DA2, which is kind of the reason why people are so fascinated by him. Character growth and all. But not an infallible character. A character with faults.

Which is something BW never fails at 

Except for Kaidan, of course, he's flawless. 

[sarakirrer]

motomotogirl wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

He also thinks mages are more akin to animals, lousy bastard.

Not by the end of DA2, which is kind of the reason why people are so fascinated by him. Character growth and all. But not an infallible character. A character with faults.

Which is something BW never fails at 

I did enjoy his character growth arc in DA2, but I can't forget the way he killed innocent apprentices... And honestly, DA2 glossed over or straight up ignored the extent of his mental deterioration at the end of DA:O, which mentioned that he had to be sent away to the Chantry in a different city in order to "level out" after he had killed those apprentices. YES, his opinion towards mages does evolve, but he never really fought, ACTIVELY, against the abuses the templars were perpetrating against the mages. That makes it hard for me, personally, to forgive his killing innocents in DA:O.

With all that being said, I did enjoy the care they put into his arc in DA2. I just don't know if I could see him as a LI unless he expressed deep regret over what he had done. It wouldn't have made sense if he had done this with Hawke, since they were passing acquaintances, but with a potential lover? I would hope that it would come up and that you would get a chance to address it, rather than his actions and his mental state being glossed over, once again.

I'd be surprised if he rebelled against the order. He does seem to believe in the tenets of the order: that templars should protect mages. Towards the end of DA2, he doubted MEREDITH, but not the order. I'd be surprised if we saw him as some kind of leader of a rebel sect of templars, because he really did seem passionate about being a traditional templar! 

[KiwiQuiche]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...



Evil is an incredibly broad term- everyone has different views on different issues. That can also change with how they are roleplaying the PC.

Though it is kinda hard to...endorse slavery I admit lol

With Anders some of my Hawkes kill him to save him- the poor guy's mind is fractured and he's pretty much insane. Still, my freedom fighter mage romanced him and fully endorsed destroying the chantry.

Yes, I don't get the big deal with Cullen-he's fairly creepy in DAO, not to mention he kills innoccent apprentices. But apparently loads of people forget that in DA2. He also thinks mages are more akin to animals, lousy bastard. If he is in DAI I hope I can kill him with some of my characters.

What do you mean by creepy? I'm curious. 

If you refer to the ending in DAO, David Gaider stated that most of them are rumors and heresy. Some can be true while others aren't. If Cullen went crazy, killed the mages at the tower, and ran away, he wouldn't be in DA2 under order from the Commander. If he became Knight-Commander, he wouldn't be Knight-Captain in DA2. He thought mages are animals, but that was because of the trauma. He did defend mages during the final confrontation if you sided with the templars. 

He just always gave me the creeps for some reason when I did the Mage Origin.

It says ingame Meredith approves of Cullen's violatile attitude against mages and his actions; it's one of the reasons he became Knight-Captain so quickly. And he only tells Meredith to shut her face after doing absolutely nothing for years inregards to the mage abuse from Templars.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 15 février 2013 - 04:26 .

[sarakirrer]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

It says ingame Meredith approves of Cullen's violatile attitude against mages and his actions; it's one of the reasons he became Knight-Captain so quickly. And he only tells Meredith to shut her face after doing absolutely nothing for years inregards to the mage abuse from Templars.

This is pretty much what I was trying to get at, but KiwiQuiche said it better. In fact, he only tells Meredith to shut her face after she threatens to kill HAWKE... How is THAT the last straw? Could he justify standing by her side up until that point, even though she had called for the Right of Annullment? He was having doubts, but he never acted on those doubts, and I don't know if he would EVER have acted on them unless Meredith went apepoo on someone outside the Circle (like she eventually did with Hawke).

[Battlebloodmage]

sarakirrer wrote...


I did enjoy his character growth arc in DA2, but I can't forget the way he killed innocent apprentices... And honestly, DA2 glossed over or straight up ignored the extent of his mental deterioration at the end of DA:O, which mentioned that he had to be sent away to the Chantry in a different city in order to "level out" after he had killed those apprentices. YES, his opinion towards mages does evolve, but he never really fought, ACTIVELY, against the abuses the templars were perpetrating against the mages. That makes it hard for me, personally, to forgive his killing innocents in DA:O.

With all that being said, I did enjoy the care they put into his arc in DA2. I just don't know if I could see him as a LI unless he expressed deep regret over what he had done. It wouldn't have made sense if he had done this with Hawke, since they were passing acquaintances, but with a potential lover? I would hope that it would come up and that you would get a chance to address it, rather than his actions and his mental state being glossed over, once again.

I'd be surprised if he rebelled against the order. He does seem to believe in the tenets of the order: that templars should protect mages. Towards the end of DA2, he doubted MEREDITH, but not the order. I'd be surprised if we saw him as some kind of leader of a rebel sect of templars, because he really did seem passionate about being a traditional templar! 

The thing is Fenris told you about a story where he killed a bunch of good-nature people after they helped him due to Danarius' order. Like I said before, people make mistakes. Both Fenris and Cullen's mind are not stable due to their past. Fenris actually approves of killing all the mages at the end if you don't interact much with him. Anders blew up an entire chantry with many innocent people in it. Zevran killed many people regardless of good or bad as an assassin. Lelianna's work as a bard is not entirely clean either. Cullen is not the only one who made mistakes. I like Cullen because, as other people stated, the growth in his character makes him very interesting.

[sarakirrer]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

The thing is Fenris told you about a story where he killed a bunch of good-nature people after they helped him due to Danarius' order. Like I said before, people make mistakes. Both Fenris and Cullen's mind are not stable due to their past. Fenris actually approves of killing all the mages at the end if you don't interact much with him. Anders blew up an entire chantry with many innocent people in it. Zevran killed many people regardless of good or bad as an assassin. Lelianna's work as a bard is not entirely clean either. Cullen is not the only one who made mistakes. I like Cullen because, as other people stated, the growth in his character makes him very interesting.

I definitely agree that the growth in his character made him interesting! I also agree that Fenris' and Anders' mental states made them really dramatic love interests--my first playthrough, I was trying to stay neutral with the mages and templars (still thought this was a valid option) while friendmancing Anders, and my jaw just about hit the floor when the Chantry blew up--it was a HUGE betrayal of neutral-Hawke. I somehow did NOT see that coming. It worked very well for me, because I enjoy romance options that are dramatic, even if they make you feel non-warm and fuzzy things like betrayal, in that case.

However, I definitely would have preferred to have the choice to romance a man who had NOT killed tons of innocents after having gone through a huge trauma. I get that it's a storytelling mechanic, but I was far more charmed by Varric, who really, truly cared for Hawke, even if it wasn't romantic love.

In my first playthrough, when Varric was like, "You should watch out, because Anders isn't going to put you before himself and his own desires," I was like, "Pffft, whatever dude, love will out." But Anders did end up proving him right in the end with his betrayal of Hawke, which really shocked me (not that Anders didn't love Hawke, but he was completely willing to put what he thought was "right" above his love and respect for Hawke). All of this was great, storytelling-wise, but honestly I would have preferred to be able to romance someone whose misdeeds I didn't have to sweep under the rug.

I enjoyed the Zevran m/m romance in DA:O, for instance, but it definitely creeped me out (as it was supposed to) that he took joy in his "art..." Unfortunately, I was never a huge fan of Leiliana and never romanced her, so I can't comment on her character arc!

All of this is really just personal preference... It's hard to get an adequate amount of variety when you only have two LIs available to you of each gender, but I hope there's more variety than "broody" and "broodier" for male characters in the next game.

[CuriousArtemis]

I have to admit, nothing the characters have done so far have really bothered me lol The exception is Loghain and his cold-hearted daughter Can't stand those two snakes!

I like it when characters contain shades of gray. I don't take personal offense to what characters do ... I myself write characters who do questionable things. They're more fun to "play" with

[Plaintiff]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...



Evil is an incredibly broad term- everyone has different views on different issues. That can also change with how they are roleplaying the PC.

Though it is kinda hard to...endorse slavery I admit lol

With Anders some of my Hawkes kill him to save him- the poor guy's mind is fractured and he's pretty much insane. Still, my freedom fighter mage romanced him and fully endorsed destroying the chantry.

Yes, I don't get the big deal with Cullen-he's fairly creepy in DAO, not to mention he kills innoccent apprentices. But apparently loads of people forget that in DA2. He also thinks mages are more akin to animals, lousy bastard. If he is in DAI I hope I can kill him with some of my characters.

What do you mean by creepy? I'm curious. 

If you refer to the ending in DAO, David Gaider stated that most of them are rumors and heresy. Some can be true while others aren't. If Cullen went crazy, killed the mages at the tower, and ran away, he wouldn't be in DA2 under order from the Commander. If he became Knight-Commander, he wouldn't be Knight-Captain in DA2. He thought mages are animals, but that was because of the trauma. He did defend mages during the final confrontation if you sided with the templars. 

He just always gave me the creeps for some reason when I did the Mage Origin.

It says ingame Meredith approves of Cullen's violatile attitude against mages and his actions; it's one of the reasons he became Knight-Captain so quickly. And he only tells Meredith to shut her face after doing absolutely nothing for years inregards to the mage abuse from Templars.

This is my problem also. It was clear that Meredith was losing her ****, and Cullen had ample chances to stand up against her that he didn't take.

To my mind, you don't win karma points for not killing innocent people. That's the least I expect from anyone.

I'm open to liking Cullen in the future, but I need to see evidence that he accepts his culpability in Meredith's wrongdoing and is trying to change.

[Battlebloodmage]

It's easier said than done though. Cullen couldn't just suddenly oppose Meredith while she's still in power. Unless he plans a rebellion from within the rank, it wouldn't be possible not to mention the risk. Furthermore, I would imagine he's still be in conflict between confronting Meredith and believing that mages need to be controlled, considered the trauma he had been in.

[Fredward]

Anders was probably my favorite romance to date. The idea of being totally in love and willing to sacrifice everything for someone who was dangerously off-kilter added a lot of depth to my canon playthrough/romance. The defining moment was probably when he totally blackmailed my Hawke into helping him with the Chantry bomb. The "I am the plight of mages" comment really resonated with what basically everyone had been warning Hawke about from the start. Still couldn't leave him though. Not really a happy romance, and in my head it ends with them both dying fighting some impossible battle, but by far my favorite.

EDIT:

And Cullen has never interested me all that much tbh. Romancing him with a mage might be interesting. MUCH rather have Cole though.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 15 février 2013 - 07:46 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Anders was probably my favorite romance to date. The idea of being totally in love and willing to sacrifice everything for someone who was dangerously off-kilter added a lot of depth to my canon playthrough/romance. The defining moment was probably when he totally blackmailed my Hawke into helping him with the Chantry bomb. The "I am the plight of mages" comment really resonated with what basically everyone had been warning Hawke about from the start. Still couldn't leave him though. Not really a happy romance, and in my head it ends with them both dying fighting some impossible battle, but by far my favorite.

EDIT:

And Cullen has never interested me all that much tbh. Romancing him with a mage might be interesting. MUCH rather have Cole though.

Who is Cole? I've never met him before in the games but I've seen him mentioned alot in the forums.

[Dhiro]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Anders was probably my favorite romance to date. The idea of being totally in love and willing to sacrifice everything for someone who was dangerously off-kilter added a lot of depth to my canon playthrough/romance. The defining moment was probably when he totally blackmailed my Hawke into helping him with the Chantry bomb. The "I am the plight of mages" comment really resonated with what basically everyone had been warning Hawke about from the start. Still couldn't leave him though. Not really a happy romance, and in my head it ends with them both dying fighting some impossible battle, but by far my favorite.

EDIT:

And Cullen has never interested me all that much tbh. Romancing him with a mage might be interesting. MUCH rather have Cole though.

Who is Cole? I've never met him before in the games but I've seen him mentioned alot in the forums.

He's from the Asunder book. I don't find him that appealing as a LI, but he seems to be rather popular around here.

[Thrillian]

Dhiro wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Anders was probably my favorite romance to date. The idea of being totally in love and willing to sacrifice everything for someone who was dangerously off-kilter added a lot of depth to my canon playthrough/romance. The defining moment was probably when he totally blackmailed my Hawke into helping him with the Chantry bomb. The "I am the plight of mages" comment really resonated with what basically everyone had been warning Hawke about from the start. Still couldn't leave him though. Not really a happy romance, and in my head it ends with them both dying fighting some impossible battle, but by far my favorite.

EDIT:

And Cullen has never interested me all that much tbh. Romancing him with a mage might be interesting. MUCH rather have Cole though.

Who is Cole? I've never met him before in the games but I've seen him mentioned alot in the forums.

He's from the Asunder book. I don't find him that appealing as a LI, but he seems to be rather popular around here.

I haven't read the books, so am not clear on the details. All I have read about Cole has intrigued me though.

[Kidd]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

And Cullen has never interested me all that much tbh. Romancing him with a mage might be interesting. MUCH rather have Cole though.

Did somebody mention Cole? 

Such an adorable character (more like a scared puppy than a lover though =P). But if he's an LI, I'll just have to try that arc, cause you can never have too much Cole in your life.

He could've grown up a lot for DA3 though. Would be very interesting to see what he has gone through and who he is today in that case =)

[Fredward]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

And Cullen has never interested me all that much tbh. Romancing him with a mage might be interesting. MUCH rather have Cole though.

Did somebody mention Cole? 

Such an adorable character (more like a scared puppy than a lover though =P). But if he's an LI, I'll just have to try that arc, cause you can never have too much Cole in your life.

He could've grown up a lot for DA3 though. Would be very interesting to see what he has gone through and who he is today in that case =)

Asunder spoilers ahoy!




Yeah I'm really hoping for the growing up part. If he's in the game. Merrill is the only companion I could never even try and romance. Something about taking care of people makes me angsty and Merrill kinda radiates that. But the fact that he was straddling Lambert's chest ready to slit his throat kinda suggests at least a more ruthless side. Asunder sort of seems like his prelude yah know? Confused about what he is. But he gets the answer to that so what really interests me about the potential romance is helping him work through all his stuff and helping him find out who he is. Also: dat tragic backstory. I'm also hoping he's a demon and not a spirit (I know there may or may not be a difference but yeah), also that the person like the human part, is less present. I reeeaaaalllllyyyy wanna see more demon psyche.

Not to mention he could make the most ****in rogue since ever. I mean technically he'd be a mage but his power has manifested completely in hiding from others so I can't wait to see that. If he's in the game. GOSH. I wish he's in the game!

[SgtElias]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

It says ingame Meredith approves of Cullen's violatile attitude against mages and his actions; it's one of the reasons he became Knight-Captain so quickly. And he only tells Meredith to shut her face after doing absolutely nothing for years inregards to the mage abuse from Templars.

Not trying to jump on the bandwagon, but yes, this is the problem I'm having with Cullen. Normally, I love the idea of romancing someone that'd be so vastly different from my PC (I usually play mages). But I think hearing him say "Mages cannot be treated like people. They are not like you and me," really stuck with me, fair or not.

Thankfully, my PC for Inquisition will have no way of knowing what Cullen may or may not have said or done in the past, so I'm willing to judge him on his actions as they're displayed in Inquisition, as they happen.

Still, if he's of the same mindset as he was in Dragon Age 2 (and I'm not saying he will be), I don't think he and my PC(s) will get along very well.

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
Did somebody mention Cole? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

I'd love to see Cole, but I don't think I'd romance him, either; he sounds like someone who has a lot of stuff to sort through, and I'd feel very uncomfortable with the idea or what is (to me, anyway) taking advantage of him.

Still! Plenty of time for either character to change significantly before DAIII starts.

Modifié par SgtElias, 15 février 2013 - 08:27 .

[riverbanks]

SgtElias wrote...

But I think hearing him say "Mages cannot be treated like people. They are not like you and me," really stuck with me, fair or not.

Again, he says this line to you when only roughly one year has passed since the Tower rebellion. The story of DA2 ends seven years later, and Cullen has considerably changed and grown in the meanwhile.  

If we're going to be hung up on lines that were said almost a decade ago in universe and let it color our views of characters for ever and ever and ever, then let's also be hung up on Alistair's disdain for mages in his very first scene of DA:O and consider him too an enemy of mages forever. Or maybe let's not, because no one think it's creepy to romance him with a mage for something he said only a few weeks earlier before he matured out of those ideas and became a better person for it, but Cullen must carry that cross forever when that's canonically not the person he is anymore either because...

[Battlebloodmage]

With all the talk about Cole, no one yet mention Rhys? I like him a lot in the book. He seems like a very interesting character to romance.

[Kidd]

***ASUNDER SPOILERS***

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

so what really interests me about the potential romance is helping him work through all his stuff and helping him find out who he is. Also: dat tragic backstory.

That would be amazing, yeah =) He could have amazing development, where he could possibly end up pretty different depending on how he is treated in DA3.

As much as I'd love to see him grow up though, I wouldn't want the -very- core of who he was in Asunder change. Feels like he would become another character by that point =) Of course, he has every excuse to go through that. I just... really... really wanted to hug that damn boy so bad.

No matter what happens, I want to see a bearded ManQuisitor paragon hug him. I feel like I would cry. Oh please, let me cry. Then make Cole die terribly or something and break my heart completely. Oh please bring it...

I'm a sick individual =(

Battlebloodmage wrote...

With all the talk about Cole, no one yet mention Rhys? I like him a lot in the book. He seems like a very interesting character to romance.

I liked Evangeline more than Rhys. Don't wanna steal her bo =) Wouldn't feel right!



***ASUNDER SPOILERS***

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 15 février 2013 - 08:50 .

[Battlebloodmage]

I wouldn't mind a sad ending to the romance if it builds right. Thane and Jacob's romance were just very basic and no build up in ME3.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Like in ME3... there should be LIs that are ONLY for the same-sex protag'
If there's that... i'm all for it...

Cullen... bit too scared of mages at the moment (bless), and i never really fancied him.
Anders <3 In my eyes he's only for a man.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 15 février 2013 - 08:55 .