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[Fast Jimmy]

I was brought the ideas in this thread from another Bioware fan who is unable to post on the DA3 forums. The ideas I think are really interesting and worth talking about, so I promised I would start up a thread for them so that they get a fair shake. 

As the thread title may (or may not have) made clear, this thread is about how changes in the environment of the game or in how things are presented can lead to a really interesting, unique feeling experience. Notice that this is not in regards to how visuals can be stunning (as seen by another thread currently up on the boards), which is a valid point, but how CHANGES in the game, demonstrated visually, can make for a more adaptable experience and further play through and character customization. 

Character changes:

Time passes. Injuries happen. Your character becomes stronger or your magic more powerful (or so your Attributes say). But this isn't really reflected in game. What if, in a similar vein as Fable (but less cartoony) that as your character gains more levels or increases their Strength, they actually gain more muscle, either in bulk or definition? What if as your armor takes damage, it began to reflect wear and tear, with scratches or dents in it? What if your character had scars if they had multiple injuries over the course of the game? Also, when we see magic used (especially in DA:O), we see an ethereal glow around the caster. What if, as the magic stat grew, that aura became more pronounced and vivid?

These kinds of cosmetic shifts can do a lot to make our character stand out. Two characters that look the exact same in Character Creation could wind up looking vastly different by the end of the game if different gameplay styles and options were underwent. This could really help define our character through the choices made in game, even if they are only cosmetic in nature. 

Lock on Character Appearance:

If the above changing features were added, an additional option would be to lock appearance as is. This would mean no new scars show up, no more beefcake is added if you spam STR, no new dents or scratches (especially if you have that one METAL looking one that you don't want messed with)... all of it stays the same. 

This can basically be a way to not meta game to avoid your character looking a certain way. For instance, in Fable, you could be asked to make a morally questionable choice to become young again... except, being young is pretty much a cosmetic thing in that game, so it basically was asking you if you wanted to do something wrong to have your character's appearance change. Which seems silly to me. If, instead, you got your character to look exactly how you want them (either through changes that happen or through your original look right out of Character Creation), it stays exactly the same... unless, of course, you remove the "lock." Then you begin changing all over again. 

Weather Effects: 

While often tied in with day and night cycle requests in order to feel like a "real" world, these types of effects aren't really used to their natural advantage often in strategic games like DA. For instance, rain could affect the efficacy of ranged weapons, acting as a hamper to accuracy. Fog could, literally, create a fog of war, where you are unsure where your enemies are or could be coming from. Mud could slow movement of your characters, or make them suffer a defense penalty if going uphill against an enemy. 

In a nutshell, using the weather not just as a visual change, but instea shave it bring actual real tactical influence. This would help show a transition of "normal" combat that we play with all the time to, instead, being combat under the weather. Heck, it might even have us begging for more cave combat for a more predictable fight, instead of having to scramble at the sight of rain. 


What are everyone's thoughts?

[Orian Tabris]

I think these are all great ideas, but they might be hard to implement, I don't know. I have no idea what the Frsitbite engine is capable of. If all of that is fairly easy, then I do hope BioWare implements all of them.

[JimboGee]

Both good points. I like the idea of having beat up armour ( never sure if I'm spelling that right) then I'd feel like I had just been in a proper fight. Scars sound good too. I kinda wish we could go back to the days when we could build a back story for our characters. I've always wanted weather effects too proper tactical combat I think. I'd also like to have some form of amour repair but that's just me.

[Knight of Dane]

Orian Tabris wrote...

I think these are all great ideas, but they might be hard to implement, I don't know. I have no idea what the Frsitbite engine is capable of. If all of that is fairly easy, then I do hope BioWare implements all of them.

I don't think that the problem would be with the Engine but the equipment system.

Dynamic bodies has been implemented in many games before Dragon Age, it's a known concept, but Equipment might not cope.

[riverbanks]

Cosmetic changes: ME2 did this well with the Renegade scars. It actually gave me pause from playing full-Paragon several times because I wanted to keep the scars. I wouldn't mind at all getting some scars after a particularly gruesome boss-level fight.

I would've liked my companions to show more signs of aging with the passing of time in DA2, even subtle ones as a darker stubble, some chicken feet, suddenly longer/shorter hair when we skip three years forward. I understand why it couldn't be done then, and I'm not sure the timeline of DA:I will allow for this, but if we have extensive skip-forwards again I'd really like to get some more visual noise to inform me that X years have really passed and it's not just my PC who's getting older (with magical interference from the Black Emporium mirror) while everyone around them looks the same.

To be honest, when you titled it Observable Transitory Changes in the Game Environment I assumed the thread was going to be about noticeable changes to enviroment to mark the passing of time, which is also something that'd be neat to see: NPCs changing position/clothes/disappearing after X years, sidequest NPCs clearing out of the scene after you've completed the quest instead of standing there in that dark isolated dungeon forever, etc.

Modifié par riverbanks, 13 février 2013 - 02:21 .

[frostajulie]

I like the idea of locking a characters appearance, nothing annoyed me more in Fable than towering over everyone else. I am a vain gamer I admit it my PC's are my Barbie dolls and I don't play with ugly barbies. I like scars but since I am such a vain gamer they must be pretty scars. small scars that add character without ruining the aesthetic of my supermodel super hero. And I know this post sets me up for easy mockery but there are not too many ugly xmen chicks so I am not alone in this.

[thats1evildude]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Character changes:

Time passes. Injuries happen. Your character becomes stronger or your magic more powerful (or so your Attributes say). But this isn't really reflected in game. What if, in a similar vein as Fable (but less cartoony) that as your character gains more levels or increases their Strength, they actually gain more muscle, either in bulk or definition? What if as your armor takes damage, it began to reflect wear and tear, with scratches or dents in it? What if your character had scars if they had multiple injuries over the course of the game? Also, when we see magic used (especially in DA:O), we see an ethereal glow around the caster. What if, as the magic stat grew, that aura became more pronounced and vivid?

I don't really care for the cosmetic shifts in Fable, as it tends to force me to play a certain way. Say I want to be a good character, but I don't want to have a stupid halo over my head. What then? I end up having to chow down on live baby chicks so my Good meter never goes up too high.

Also, what if I want to play an Evil character but don't want to grow devil horns?In one playthrough of Fable 2, I ended up playing a very evil vegetarian/teetotaler so my Corruption score wouldn't go too high. Reminds me of that scene from Justice League where the Flash's rogues gallery brag about how tough they are and then order milk at a bar.

Also, what if I want to play a magic-user but not have those glowing veins that Will-users get, or play a melee-focused character that looks like he has raw steaks surgically implanted in my muscles? I can't do anything to counteract these changes, unlike the Good/Evil meter. Guess I'm specializing in pistols! All those do is make you taller (for some reason).

And the scar mechanic in Fable is absolutely terrible. I deliberately let my ass get kicked and I'll be damned if I can actually see any scars.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Weather Effects: 

While often tied in with day and night cycle requests in order to feel like a "real" world, these types of effects aren't really used to their natural advantage often in strategic games like DA. For instance, rain could affect the efficacy of ranged weapons, acting as a hamper to accuracy. Fog could, literally, create a fog of war, where you are unsure where your enemies are or could be coming from. Mud could slow movement of your characters, or make them suffer a defense penalty if going uphill against an enemy. 

In a nutshell, using the weather not just as a visual change, but instea shave it bring actual real tactical influence. This would help show a transition of "normal" combat that we play with all the time to, instead, being combat under the weather. Heck, it might even have us begging for more cave combat for a more predictable fight, instead of having to scramble at the sight of rain.

Weather is great for mixing up things in tabletop campaigns from time to time, but in a video game you'd encounter these phenomena with regularity because there'd need to be some kind of set schedule for their appearance. Like, every seventh day it would rain or something.

It'd end up being a total pain in the ass; imagine playing a Grand Theft Auto game where the main character couldn't aim guns at night because it was too dark to see. Again, this ends up directing my character build, as I wouldn't want to play a character that's effectively crippled every seven days.

Fighter can't run in the mud? Archer can't aim in the rain? Guess I'm playing a mage, then. 

I've been playing a lot of Orcs Must Die! lately and I'd like to see more environmental hazards in Dragon Age, like being able to push enemies off cliffs or drop chandeliers on their heads. But I can see weather being problematic.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 13 février 2013 - 03:48 .

[Missy_MI]

frostajulie wrote...
I like scars but since I am such a vain gamer they must be pretty scars

Ha ha, me too. I almost never add scars during character creation, so it would bug me if I failed to block in combat during some random encounter and was punished with one anyway.

However, I'm all for permanently affecting character apperance if the injury is significant from a story point of view. Like some arch evil villain stabs the player character in the arm. From that point on, the character model is altered to display a scar. And every now and then the idle animation shows them rubbing their arm as though it still aches a bit. That kind of thing.

[Nefla]

I would LOVE cosmetic changes like that

[Nomadiac]

These are great ideas, and I'd love for them to be in DA3. However, it's not like I expect Bioware to implement them, as they presumably have a lot of other, more important things, to worry about - particularly with a new engine and toolkit.

I don't see how muscle changes can be made clear enough to be 'vastly different' without looking cartoony, though - and seeing as the strongest characters who'll have the greatest muscle growth will probably be wearing a full suit of armour most of the time, I'm not sure if it'd be worth it.

[Plaintiff]

These might be nice, but they don't seem like practical inclusions, especially the body-morphing, with its 'lock' option that sounds awfully like a toggle, and we all know how Bioware devs feel about those.

Weather options might be doable, but I would think only in specific areas or at specific story points.

[Reznore57]

I think the scar idea would be cool , if a villain /someone who betrayed you would scar your pc.
We know our pc have a plot armor , he /she won't get any really ugly injury , he won't lost any limb ,etc....

So having something attacking the physical integrity of our hero could be "symbolic " i guess.
I wouldn't like to play someone who gets disfigured obviously ( hey i'm vain too) , but a small scar tied to a quest and a personal nemesis could be funny ideas.

[Wulfram]

The DA attribute system is too silly to base appearance changes on without major adjustments. And generally I don't really see it making much sense apart from strength.

I'd rather connect scars to story events than just getting injured in combat. And have the good guy choice be the one that results in scars for a change.

Weather having a tactical influence can be interesting, or it can just end up as a way to screw archers, or people in heavy armour.

[Big I]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
What if, in a similar vein as Fable (but less cartoony) that as your character gains more levels or increases their Strength, they actually gain more muscle, either in bulk or definition?

That sort of visula representation might work for strength, but what about any other stat? How would you visually indicate a an increase in cunning, or willpower? Even things like dexterity or constitution would be hard to show. Furthermore, it opens the door to lore inconsistencies. If every mage gets a visible or palpable magical aura it's not going to be hard for templars to find apostates.


The way visual progression is shown in RPGs is through your gear. You find gear that needs better stats to use, you raise your stats, and then you use the new gear, thereby providing youself with a change in appearance. I'm fine with that.

[JWvonGoethe]

Well weather effects impacting on combat effectiveness for certain weapons would be a nice touch. As for changes to the character's appearance - ME2 had this but it was optional, for a good reason: it wouldn't be so great to spend hours making a character's appearance and then find that scars just don't to happen to suit them. Contrastingly, Fable has facial morphing, but it doesn't have any CC, so the morphing pretty much functions as the CC, so it makes sense there too.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 13 février 2013 - 06:35 .