167 réponses à ce sujet

[solidprice]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Are you familiar with the concept of a starter weapon in an RPG?

At least the other starter weapons still retain some basic use. Not so with the katana.






If you guys want, I can edit this into a official petition to delete the katana.

this is sadly true.

Mantis:   is a great caster sniper
Avenger:   is an ok caster AR
Predator:    is good on pc and/or fast trigger finger. can weigh nothing/be a "free gun" on some builds. good melee stunner gun.
Shuriken:     is tied for lightest gun in game w/ predator/Acolyte. can weigh nothing/be a "free gun" on some builds.  applies ammo powers well.
katana: ??????? idk   be too middle of the road to have any niche worth using lol
no real reason to use it over any other shotgun.  both uncommon shoguns outclass it in both extremes.
and the stripper gun beats it in weight. damage? claymore is the solution to any problems lol

Modifié par solidprice, 13 février 2013 - 03:38 .

[hearydiver]

I'd rather imagine your head exploding from trying to figure it out yourself, than attempt to explain yhe correlation between damage tiering for weapon types and damage tiering for thermal clip shot capacity.

[Miniditka77]

OperatingWookie wrote...

At least the other starter weapons still retain some basic use. Not so with the katana.

No, they really don't.  The Mantis is the only one with any degree of use outside of just being a starter weapon.  There is literally no point in using an Avenger if you have a Locust or a GPR.  There is no point in using the Predator if you have a Phalanx or an Eagle.  There is no point in using the Shuriken if you have any other gun on the game.  

[Chi_Mangetsu]

^ Well, other than Challenge points and sh!ts and giggles.

[Rokayt]

Chi_Mangetsu wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

*snip*

Think less Skyrim, more FFVII/IX.

While some weapons are clearly better than others, there are a number of mid tier weapons in these games (7 and 9 especially) that have their utility (your Mage Mashers and materia-less weapons come to mind), even if they aren't ohemmgee powerful.

FF and the JRPS are even worse for inspiration as to how to balance a hybrid game like the last two mass effect games.

Nobody would ever use a common sword to take out Vulcainus, Bal, Or an item god in disgaea.
It doesn't play any differently then a Bal sword, why the hell would I ever try to use it outside of a challange run.

The Katana has a very strong, steady, but strangely rapid feel. Its also one of the weakest strength weight weapons in the game. People called it a solid gun that they loved using it on release date.

Why did we stop using it? Hopeless inferiority.
Now, why should a strong, fun pattern of weapon be useless?
Cause, if the Katana stays in its current state, you owe me a second, balanced Katana, just to be clear.

Modifié par Rokayt, 13 février 2013 - 03:41 .

[LeandroBraz]

It's your first shotgun, most players will use it on bronze, maybe on silver, then move on when they get something better. She is good enough for this...

[Uchimura]

Why don't you have it out with Rare ARs instead of the beginner shotgun?

[Wolf610]

Miniditka77 wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

At least the other starter weapons still retain some basic use. Not so with the katana.

No, they really don't.  The Mantis is the only one with any degree of use outside of just being a starter weapon.  There is literally no point in using an Avenger if you have a Locust or a GPR.  There is no point in using the Predator if you have a Phalanx or an Eagle.  There is no point in using the Shuriken if you have any other gun on the game.  

/topic

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Rokayt wrote...

Chi_Mangetsu wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

*snip*

Think less Skyrim, more FFVII/IX.

While some weapons are clearly better than others, there are a number of mid tier weapons in these games (7 and 9 especially) that have their utility (your Mage Mashers and materia-less weapons come to mind), even if they aren't ohemmgee powerful.

FF and the JRPS are even worse for inspiration as to how to balance a hybrid game like the last two mass effect games.

Nobody would ever use a common sword to take out Vulcainus, Bal, Or an item god in disgaea.
It doesn't play any differently then a Bal sword, why the hell would I ever try to use it outside of a challange run.

The Katana has a very strong, steady, but strangely rapid feel. Its also one of the weakest strength weight weapons in the game. People called it a solid gun that they loved using it on release date.

Why did we stop using it? Hopeless inferiority.
Now, why should a strong, fun pattern of weapon be useless?
Cause, if the Katana stays in its current state, you owe me a second, balanced Katana, just to be clear.

Thanks for totally ignoring what I said, brah. Disgaea is a game all about the next best thing and lesser things just get sold, item worlded, or whatever, so suffice to say it's a terrible comparison to what I'm trying to get across to you. In FF, some lesser than the ultimate weapons are still very good, though situational and fall into a niche, so you may not necessarily want to toss them out. Not to mention that equipping a different weapon can be faster than swapping out materia wholesale every time FFVII and different weapons confer different abilities with training in FFIX; 9 really is the best comparison here.

[Das Rouse]

I'd rather use the Katana over the Incisor any day of the mellinium.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Das Rouse wrote...

I'd rather use the Katana over the Incisor any day of the mellinium.

<- Damage increased from [93.3-116.6] to [98.0-122.5]>
Per bullet. lol k

DAT RANGE
You're better off throwing the Katana from that perspective.

Modifié par Chi_Mangetsu, 13 février 2013 - 03:48 .

[Rokayt]

I think Me2 is the best example.

Aside from the DLC being overpowered, the vanilla weapons had an attempt at role balancing, and they did a very decent job.

I couldn't imagine using the Vindicator, but people swore by it.
The Revenant made me laugh, but people wrote love letters to it.

People laughed at the scimitar being my go to gun, but the Human reaper sure didn't.

And yet, they never made any attempt at making one gun better then another (Aside when people payed real dosh for it,) and instead made all guns better as the game went on.

Gear does make all guns better, contrary to most people attitudes. Simply by having it, progression could be maintained without sacrificing weapon choice.

Hitting "End turn" does not equal aiming, shooting, re-aiming, and shooting again.
The experiences are non-equal.
Both draw different crowds.

Modifié par Rokayt, 13 février 2013 - 03:53 .

[Abramsrunner]

I wouldn't want my M-23 Katana to be deleted they should just buff the rank X part of it.

The whole rarity system is messed up anyway. I mean the M-96 Mattock is better then most gold level assault rifles and the M-92 Mantis received a buff not to long ago, also the N7 Typhoon got hit with a nerf way back. I don't even think that BioWare buffs or nerfs on rarity.

There was and idea somewhere that suggested guns should have a rarity ladder, like
Rank 1 to 3 = Common, 4 to 6 = Uncommon, 7 to 9 = rare and 10 is the UR.

And be given ME1 type names, like a HMWSG Katana, now that I think about it, how about a HMWSG Claymore.

[Das Rouse]

Chi_Mangetsu wrote...

Das Rouse wrote...

I'd rather use the Katana over the Incisor any day of the mellinium.

<- Damage increased from [93.3-116.6] to [98.0-122.5]>
Per bullet. lol k

DAT RANGE
You're better off throwing the Katana from that perspective.

The buff is insignificant.  I'll take my chances running up to the enemy than with the Incisor.  lol k.

[maztor1225]

This just in: Weapons available from the get-go aren't as lethal as final tier weapons.
More on "How to RPG" tonight at 6!

[Rokayt]

maztor1225 wrote...

This just in: Weapons available from the get-go aren't as lethal as final tier weapons.
More on "How to RPG" tonight at 6!

Strangely enough, this wasn't the case in Mass Effect 2, which nearly everyone liked many times more then Mass Effect 3.

[Admiral Dreck]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Just my opinion though, no need to go spreading it around.

But but but.. you are spreading it around!

[fireandforget892]

What else is gonna make that badass *ka-******* sound when you wield it?

[maztor1225]

Rokayt wrote...

maztor1225 wrote...

This just in: Weapons available from the get-go aren't as lethal as final tier weapons.
More on "How to RPG" tonight at 6!

Strangely enough, this wasn't the case in Mass Effect 2, which nearly everyone liked many times more then Mass Effect 3.

Keep in mind that ME2 was single player only. With the inclusion of MP now the weapons all need a role. 
The katana is admittedly not a great choice, I couldn't stand to use it and still don't have it's challenge done. But, people who play up-close shotgun/melee need somewhere to start when they are new.
Some starters are decent at X but none are best in class.

[dysomnium]

So, 1st place (me) was using a Javelin IX on an Infiltrator. Second place was using a Katana X on an N7 Slayer Vanguard. 60 point difference on a predetermined map/enemy. And the Katana is useless?

[Rokayt]

maztor1225 wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

maztor1225 wrote...

This just in: Weapons available from the get-go aren't as lethal as final tier weapons.
More on "How to RPG" tonight at 6!

Strangely enough, this wasn't the case in Mass Effect 2, which nearly everyone liked many times more then Mass Effect 3.

Keep in mind that ME2 was single player only. With the inclusion of MP now the weapons all need a role. 
The katana is admittedly not a great choice, I couldn't stand to use it and still don't have it's challenge done. But, people who play up-close shotgun/melee need somewhere to start when they are new.
Some starters are decent at X but none are best in class.

Why do we need something to be the best of its class?
Why can't we strive for a game where you could settle down on a single difficulty that you are comfortable with, and experiment with weapons without useless letdowns?

The Vidicator, the Avenger, The GPR, and the Revenant all had roles in 2.
In fact, nobody would ever agree which is best.
Some people even complained that the GPR was too unpredictable to ever have a hope at replacing the Avenger.

If we were going to take things seriously here, we would notice that half the weapons lack their role, either because more user friendly weapons match or beat their performance (While mainting a lower weight class, and in many cases rarirty at the same time. *Gasp* Despite bioware... Never really showing signs of using of rarity based teirs in balancing.)

AtR Sheepdog wrote...



So, 1st place (me) was using a Javelin IX on an Infiltrator. Second place was using a Katana X on an N7 Slayer Vanguard. 60 point difference on a predetermined map/enemy. And the Katana is useless?

Soo..... You are saying that you played with someone who was legitimately better then you justifies statistical inferiority?

Modifié par Rokayt, 13 février 2013 - 04:11 .

[PHILDARR]

fireandforget892 wrote...

What else is gonna make that badass *ka-******* sound when you wield it?

The Katana will forever have a place in my heart for this reason.  When I first started playing multiplayer, I consistently used the Katana over the Scimitar for the sole reason of its 'draw sound' .  It also sounds a lot better firering, too. 

Modifié par PHILDARR, 13 février 2013 - 04:15 .

[Kingston Atticus]

 It can and HAS been used effectively on gold.  It can and HAS been used effectively on gold. That was WITHOUT ANY gear or equipment.

I say, give it to a Destroyer and put on the HVB and Smart-choke and throw on Shotgun Rail amps 3 and Shotgun gear 5 or shocktrooper gear 5 and go to gold. It should be even MOR effective!

Modifié par Kingston Atticus, 13 février 2013 - 04:17 .

[maztor1225]

Rokayt wrote...

maztor1225 wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

maztor1225 wrote...

This just in: Weapons available from the get-go aren't as lethal as final tier weapons.
More on "How to RPG" tonight at 6!

Strangely enough, this wasn't the case in Mass Effect 2, which nearly everyone liked many times more then Mass Effect 3.

Keep in mind that ME2 was single player only. With the inclusion of MP now the weapons all need a role. 
The katana is admittedly not a great choice, I couldn't stand to use it and still don't have it's challenge done. But, people who play up-close shotgun/melee need somewhere to start when they are new.
Some starters are decent at X but none are best in class.

Why do we need something to be the best of its class?
Why can't we strive for a game where you could settle down on a single difficulty that you are comfortable with, and experiment with weapons without useless letdowns?

The Vidicator, the Avenger, The GPR, and the Revenant all had roles in 2.
In fact, nobody would ever agree which is best.
Some people even complained that the GPR was too unpredictable to ever have a hope at replacing the Avenger.

If we were going to take things seriously here, we would notice that half the weapons lack their role, either because more user friendly weapons match or beat their performance (While mainting a lower weight class, and in many cases rarirty at the same time. *Gasp* Despite bioware... Never really showing signs of using of rarity based teirs in balancing.)

If there wasn't a best in class, there'd be no reason to have more than one of each weapon.
One shotgun, one AR, one SMG, one pistol, one sniper.
It's like other RPGs as I see it, invest more time, get better gear, become stronger and more lethal. 

[Pyroninja42]

cowwy wrote...

To be fair it's still better than the Scimitar.

Scimitar + Krogan Shaman = EVERYTHING DYING.