642 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

EntropicAngel wrote...
That's not true, and you know it: the Liara romance is every bit as valid as any other.

Why should I know it? I have not nor will I ever romance Liara. The only character I have romanced is Kaidan, and only in ME3, when he was available to male shepards.

But you've completely missed the point, I did not say that the lesbian romances were less valid, the "validity" of it, however you would assess that, has nothing to do with anything.

The lesbian content is "minor" in amount, as in there is much less of it than there is of heterosexual content across the series as a whole. Particularly in ME2, where the only same-sex option for female Shepards is Kelly Chambers, and gay male Shepards are once again left out in the cold.

And, unrelated to that ^ post, I have to say, I'm seeing a lot of finger-pointing here that only cripples any points that are being made.

'Finger-pointing' doesn't undermine an argument unless the accusations are false. I have not made any false accusations.

[Xilizhra]

Thats the thing with fantasy settings. Unless stuff is explained otherwise, the reader\\viewer is to expect things works as in our world. Thedas has dragons. Fine. then thats realistic in Thedas. And I didn`t say homosexual relationships were not accepted in Thedas. I just said it was unrealistic that every love interest just happen to be bisexual, and all of them are into Hawke.

There are a great many things about the party composition that are hideously statistically unlikely; don't single out bisexuality, it has no purpose.

Personally, I feel the same as you: I can deal with flirting. But I think the other viewpoint is valid.

It's valid, provided they're opposed to the dialogue and not the existence of more bisexual characters.

I'm very, very much opposed to using buzzwords like "bigot" or "racist" or "sexist" in absence of an actual argument to smear someone one disagrees with.

But actual arguments have been used alongside those, and they were warranted to begin with. Whether or not he's a bigot personally, his statement was bigoted.

[Plaintiff]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'm very, very much opposed to using buzzwords like "bigot" or "racist" or "sexist" in absence of an actual argument to smear someone one disagrees with.

These are not "buzzwords", they are very clearly defined.

[ejoslin]

Zevran was flirty, but unless you flirted back AND confirmed that you were interested when he asked to confirm it (it was far easier to accidentally cut off Zevran's romance than to start it if you actually paid attention to the dialog), no romance would start. What people's issue was was that you did not get nearly as much approval when you would shoot him down, and they wanted that approval. So they decided to do the heart system -- and people complained that hearts appeared in their dialog choices with people of the same gender.

I think males in general are more sensitive to this because most females have learned, from puberty, that people we're not interested in will hit on us and it's not an insult when that happens.

Anyway, as far as homosexual characters only being NPCs -- I don't see the point in that. While in a perfect world it would be amazing to have six romance partners, I don't think there was enough romance content in DA2 with just four so I'd prefer Hawksexuality. DAO had a decent amount of romance, but I'll tell you this -- thousands of people modded it to make Alistair and Morrigan bisexual.

[Rawgrim]

Xilizhra wrote...

Thats the thing with fantasy settings. Unless stuff is explained otherwise, the readerviewer is to expect things works as in our world. Thedas has dragons. Fine. then thats realistic in Thedas. And I didn`t say homosexual relationships were not accepted in Thedas. I just said it was unrealistic that every love interest just happen to be bisexual, and all of them are into Hawke.

There are a great many things about the party composition that are hideously statistically unlikely; don't single out bisexuality, it has no purpose.

Personally, I feel the same as you: I can deal with flirting. But I think the other viewpoint is valid.

It's valid, provided they're opposed to the dialogue and not the existence of more bisexual characters.

I'm very, very much opposed to using buzzwords like "bigot" or "racist" or "sexist" in absence of an actual argument to smear someone one disagrees with.

But actual arguments have been used alongside those, and they were warranted to begin with. Whether or not he's a bigot personally, his statement was bigoted.

Well since the topic IS bisexuality, it has a purpose to single it out. For the sake of the discussion.

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...
That's not true, and you know it: the Liara romance is every bit as valid as any other.

Why should I know it? I have not nor will I ever romance Liara. The only character I have romanced is Kaidan, and only in ME3, when he was available to male shepards.

But you've completely missed the point, I did not say that the lesbian romances were less valid, the "validity" of it, however you would assess that, has nothing to do with anything.

The lesbian content is "minor" in amount, as in there is much less of it than there is of heterosexual content across the series as a whole. Particularly in ME2, where the only same-sex option for female Shepards is Kelly Chambers, and gay male Shepards are once again left out in the cold.

And, unrelated to that ^ post, I have to say, I'm seeing a lot of finger-pointing here that only cripples any points that are being made.

'Finger-pointing' doesn't undermine an argument unless the accusations are false. I have not made any false accusations.

Wasn`t Kaidan available to males in ME1? I seem to remember he was.

[Xilizhra]

Well since the topic IS bisexuality, it has a purpose to single it out. For the sake of the discussion.

But to do so without also calling out the numerous other statistical improbabilities is hypocritical.

Wasn`t Kaidan available to males in ME1? I seem to remember he was.

Only with mods.

[Plaintiff]

Rawgrim wrote...

Wasn`t Kaidan available to males in ME1? I seem to remember he was.

No. There is no same-sex content for men in ME1 or 2.

[Rawgrim]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well since the topic IS bisexuality, it has a purpose to single it out. For the sake of the discussion.

But to do so without also calling out the numerous other statistical improbabilities is hypocritical.

Wasn`t Kaidan available to males in ME1? I seem to remember he was.

Only with mods.

So if I discuss bisexuality, in a topic about bisexuality, and don`t bring up other improbabilities I am hypocritical? Sorry. I just don`t see it. Please enlighten me.


My bad on Kaidan then. I thought he and Liara were available to both genders.

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Wasn`t Kaidan available to males in ME1? I seem to remember he was.

No. There is no same-sex content for men in ME1 or 2.

Ok. there should have been one. If it makes you feel better, straight men didn`t get that much choices either. It was a blue alien chic, or a racist biblethumper. Not anything to cheer about.

[Xilizhra]

So if I discuss bisexuality, in a topic about bisexuality, and don`t bring up other improbabilities I am hypocritical? Sorry. I just don`t see it. Please enlighten me.

Yes, you are, because it implies that somehow bisexuality matters more than those other ones and deserves special attention to remove it. To which I will say, "**** that."

I wasn't talking about you, just "in here" as I stated.

It doesn't apply to anyone else either.

[Plaintiff]

Rawgrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Wasn`t Kaidan available to males in ME1? I seem to remember he was.

No. There is no same-sex content for men in ME1 or 2.

Ok. there should have been one. If it makes you feel better, straight men didn`t get that much choices either. It was a blue alien chic, or a racist biblethumper. Not anything to cheer about.

Well, I think Liara is a fine character, and a platonic friendship with Male Shepard is fantastically portrayed.

I had to nuke Ashley because she wouldn't stop hitting on me, so I can't comment.

I have no problem with the way any of the characters are developed, except that I found Jack in ME2 to be very stereotypically "edgy", and she struck me as less of a victim of genuine tragedy and more like a parody of an angsty teenager. She was much improved in ME3, having mellowed out considerably.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 février 2013 - 03:21 .

[Rawgrim]

Xilizhra wrote...

So if I discuss bisexuality, in a topic about bisexuality, and don`t bring up other improbabilities I am hypocritical? Sorry. I just don`t see it. Please enlighten me.

Yes, you are, because it implies that somehow bisexuality matters more than those other ones and deserves special attention to remove it. To which I will say, "**** that."

I wasn't talking about you, just "in here" as I stated.

It doesn't apply to anyone else either.

And when did I say it needed removing?

[Xilizhra]

I would say that is valid as well, because it isn't anyone's job to mandate anyone else's morality. Maybe not valid as an argument for toggles, but as a life choice.

Well, it's technically valid in legal terms, but I would hope that no one else listens to them.

The problem is, these words are used as emotional...again, "buzzwords" to place a slant on the words of another and invalidate them, regardless of how true or false they are.

So? Emotion is a part of speech, and when the words used are accurate, why shouldn't they continue to be?

And when did I say it needed removing?

So you're just here to talk about statistical improbabilities for their own sake without actually changing anything? I grant that's a better option than what I thought originally, but I'm somewhat confused as to why you'd do so.

[lil yonce]

Rawgrim wrote...

Ok. there should have been one. If it makes you feel better, straight men didn`t get that much choices either. It was a blue alien chic, or a racist biblethumper. Not anything to cheer about.

Hey, don't talk about Ash like that. Whoever your LI was, she sucks. There. Karma. 

[Rawgrim]

Xilizhra wrote...

I would say that is valid as well, because it isn't anyone's job to mandate anyone else's morality. Maybe not valid as an argument for toggles, but as a life choice.

Well, it's technically valid in legal terms, but I would hope that no one else listens to them.

The problem is, these words are used as emotional...again, "buzzwords" to place a slant on the words of another and invalidate them, regardless of how true or false they are.

So? Emotion is a part of speech, and when the words used are accurate, why shouldn't they continue to be?

And when did I say it needed removing?

So you're just here to talk about statistical improbabilities for their own sake without actually changing anything? I grant that's a better option than what I thought originally, but I'm somewhat confused as to why you'd do so.

Well. What I think would be the best option is this: To have gays, straights AND bisexuals. Not just bisexuals.We have all 3 variations in real life, so that would make the most sense in thedas too.Having everyone be BI just reeks of simplifying and short cuts. Much like the issue with DA2 only having 1 cave map and things like that. I am in no way for removing bisexuality, I am for having gays, straights AND bisexuals.

[Xilizhra]

Have to say, Ashley wasn't racist. Not at all. She didn't view aliens as less than humans. Or humans as better than aliens.

"I'm no fan of aliens."

Well. What I think would be the best option is this: To have gays,
straights AND bisexuals. Not just bisexuals.We have all 3 variations in
real life, so that would make the most sense in thedas too.Having
everyone be BI just reeks of simplifying and short cuts. Much like the
issue with DA2 only having 1 cave map and things like that. I am in no
way for removing bisexuality, I am for having gays, straights AND
bisexuals.

Simplifying and shortcuts, like always running everywhere and never needing to eat or excrete. It's par for the course for a video game when resources are always strained, and many people are already complaining about romances receiving too much attention.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 15 février 2013 - 03:25 .

[Rawgrim]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Ok. there should have been one. If it makes you feel better, straight men didn`t get that much choices either. It was a blue alien chic, or a racist biblethumper. Not anything to cheer about.

Hey, don't talk about Ash like that. Whoever your LI was, she sucks. There. Karma. 

Hey! Plaintiff nuked her. Get him instead