642 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

sarakirrer wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

sarakirrer wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

word of mouth can hurt sales. If one part of a game falters because of equality, money drops and the devs have less money to work on the next title.

That is a legitimate concern, definitely. I would really hate if we didn't get another DA game because fans who were uncomfortable with the same sex romance content stopped buying the games. (Not only because I'd be sad that we didn't get another DA game, but because of what that outcome would imply about the majority of DA fans.)

However, I really hope that people will become more respectful of gay or bisexual content, especially when it comes to gay men being represented in video games. And, honestly, I hope and believe that the amount of people who support and/or respect the inclusion of same sex romance content will be able to support BioWare in the future.

It wasn`t the same sex romances that hurt the DA2 sales. Not by a long shot. Just for the record.

FWIW, I don't believe that they did. {smilie}

(what does FWIW mean?)

[draken-heart]

Why cant the devs/mods lock this thread right now?

[catharsisboo]

Plaintiff wrote...

catharsisboo wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

catharsisboo wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...
The only people who are okay to cater to are straight male gamers.

forget it. you all hat this thread because it has that "I want NPC S/S romances because I think that gay companions are eww." when it is really "I want S/S NPC romance to 1) provide a sense of Companionship for Homosexual characters that do not battle with them and 2) The all bi was not the answer to the equality problem."

It's just that, if you are arguing for s/s NPCs out of a sense of equality, you're not going about it the best way imo. Insisting that an equal amount of LIs for o/s and s/s is somehow "catering" for gay players doesn't sound very s/s-positive.

just catering to the people whose complaining=the all bi option. not all gay.

I'm still waiting for an explaination as to how it's catering when it's merely providing an equal number options. :/

Well, it is catering. By definition, every time you provide a product specifically intended for a particular group, you are "catering" to somebody. If you make kilts, you are catering to people who would like to wear kilts. If you provide special learning services for children with disabilities, you are catering to children with disabilities, and also their parents.

But there's nothing wrong with catering. Using the term to illegitimise the same-sex content in Bioware games is silly. Every single aspect of Dragon Age is catering to somebody. The fantasy setting is catering to fantasy fans, the class system is catering to people who like classes, the social dynamics are catering to people who like social dynamics. I could go on forever.

Of course, but I meant "catering" as in the way he was using it (and by extension how most of the BSN uses it when discussing the "all-bi LI" thing), as in giving options to a group that is proportionately smaller (and are therefore somehow less important consumers) than the majority that plays DA.  There is nothing wrong with actual catering; all video games, like you said, cater to an audience. "Catering", however, implies negativity. 

Modifié par catharsisboo, 16 février 2013 - 03:12 .

[catharsisboo]

Rawgrim wrote...

(what does FWIW mean?)

For what it's worth.

[Rawgrim]

From what I gather...nobody has any problems with gays or bisexuals being in the game and whatsnot. But the fact that everyone is bisexual seems to be the problem. I see no bigotry in that bit, honestly.

Having NPC`s as love interests would be great, though. No matter their sexuall prefference.


Here is a fun idea. Wade or Herren as a love interest Would be fun to see how the other one reacts to it.

[Rawgrim]

catharsisboo wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

(what does FWIW mean?)

For what it's worth.

Thanks. I am too old to learn all those...thingys.

[Plaintiff]

Rawgrim wrote...

Its kind of easy to see Anders as some sort of "catering", given the fact that he shouldn`t even be in Kirkwall when he shows up. According to the timeline, he is still in Amaranthine when he runs into Hawke. Go figure.

All the companions are romanceable by both genders, so to say that Anders specifically is "catering" to the "gay crowd" because of an irrelevent timeline mix-up is silly.

They were going to use a companion from Awakening regardless. In his blog post regarding Anders, David Gaider states that Velanna was also considered for the role, so the timeline issue was always going to be present no matter (unless you think vaginas have the magical ability to cancel out time paradoxes).

To balance things out, Merrill or Isabela would likely have been replaced with another male LI, who would be available to both genders.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 16 février 2013 - 03:13 .

[catharsisboo]

Rawgrim wrote...

From what I gather...nobody has any problems with gays or bisexuals being in the game and whatsnot. But the fact that everyone is bisexual seems to be the problem. I see no bigotry in that bit, honestly.

It's a bit of a mixed bag of opinions. Some people advocate not everyone being bisexual because they would like to see more LIs being gay/lesbian, and that is perfectly fine. However, some people say it's "unrealistic" to have four bisexual people in your group of friends and ask for less s/s options at the same time. That to me seems a bit like bigotry.

Here is a fun idea. Wade or Herren as a love interest Would be fun to see how the other one reacts to it.

But Wade and Herren are together! I could never break them up, even though Wade is so adorable.

[draken-heart]

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its kind of easy to see Anders as some sort of "catering", given the fact that he shouldn`t even be in Kirkwall when he shows up. According to the timeline, he is still in Amaranthine when he runs into Hawke. Go figure.

All the companions are romanceable by both genders, so to say that Anders specifically is "catering" to the "gay crowd" because of an irrelevent timeline mix-up is silly.

They were going to use a companion from Awakening regardless. In his blog post regarding Anders, David Gaider states that Velanna was also considered for the role, so the timeline issue was always going to be present no matter (unless you think vaginas have the magical ability to cancel out time paradoxes).

To balance things out, Merrill or Isabela would likely have been replaced with another male LI, who would be available to both genders.

Could have also replaced Merrill with Velanna and Anders with anothe Male LI. that would have gotten rid of two issues. OR better yet, all new characters except for Isabela and had an awakening character as an NPC.

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its kind of easy to see Anders as some sort of "catering", given the fact that he shouldn`t even be in Kirkwall when he shows up. According to the timeline, he is still in Amaranthine when he runs into Hawke. Go figure.

All the companions are romanceable by both genders, so to say that Anders specifically is "catering" to the "gay crowd" because of an irrelevent timeline mix-up is silly.

They were going to use a companion from Awakening regardless. In his blog post regarding Anders, David Gaider states that Velanna was also considered for the role, so the timeline issue was always going to be present no matter (unless you think vaginas have the magical ability to cancel out time paradoxes).

To balance things out, Merrill or Isabela would likely have been replaced with another male LI, who would be available to both genders.

The same goes for all the Awakening ones, of course. If they are busy elsewhere, they shouldn`t be in Kirkwall. Simple as that.

[Battlebloodmage]

"I want S/S NPC romance to 1) provide a sense of Companionship for Homosexual characters that do not battle with them and 2) The all bi was not the answer to the equality problem."

All of what you said can apply to straight NPC options as well, just saying. You just keep on insisting it to only be S/S is the real problem here.

[Plaintiff]

draken-heart wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
But it's not really "uncharted territory", is it? At least three Bioware games now have had relatively substantial same-sex romance content. And aside from some ****ing on the forums, there's been very little in the way of negative feedback.

I seem to recall the exclusive same sex romance content was from ME3. what are the other with exclusive S/S romances?

I didn't say exclsive, I just meant that same-sex content was available generally. I was counting the bisexual characters as well.

[draken-heart]

catharsisboo wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

From what I gather...nobody has any problems with gays or bisexuals being in the game and whatsnot. But the fact that everyone is bisexual seems to be the problem. I see no bigotry in that bit, honestly.

It's a bit of a mixed bag of opinions. Some people advocate not everyone being bisexual because they would like to see more LIs being gay/lesbian, and that is perfectly fine. However, some people say it's "unrealistic" to have four bisexual people in your group of friends and ask for less s/s options at the same time. That to me seems a bit like bigotry.

Here is a fun idea. Wade or Herren as a love interest Would be fun to see how the other one reacts to it.

But Wade and Herren are together! I could never break them up, even though Wade is so adorable.

I just four LIs being Bi is unrealistic, no idea what you make of that.

[Xilizhra]

draken-heart wrote...

Why cant the devs/mods lock this thread right now?

Because the discussion currently going on is more productive than the one it started with.

[draken-heart]

Plaintiff wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
But it's not really "uncharted territory", is it? At least three Bioware games now have had relatively substantial same-sex romance content. And aside from some ****ing on the forums, there's been very little in the way of negative feedback.

I seem to recall the exclusive same sex romance content was from ME3. what are the other with exclusive S/S romances?

I didn't say exclsive, I just meant that same-sex content was available generally. I was counting the bisexual characters as well.

And did I not mention Exclusive in the op?

[catharsisboo]

draken-heart wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its kind of easy to see Anders as some sort of "catering", given the fact that he shouldn`t even be in Kirkwall when he shows up. According to the timeline, he is still in Amaranthine when he runs into Hawke. Go figure.

All the companions are romanceable by both genders, so to say that Anders specifically is "catering" to the "gay crowd" because of an irrelevent timeline mix-up is silly.

They were going to use a companion from Awakening regardless. In his blog post regarding Anders, David Gaider states that Velanna was also considered for the role, so the timeline issue was always going to be present no matter (unless you think vaginas have the magical ability to cancel out time paradoxes).

To balance things out, Merrill or Isabela would likely have been replaced with another male LI, who would be available to both genders.

Could have also replaced Merrill with Velanna and Anders with anothe Male LI. that would have gotten rid of two issues. OR better yet, all new characters except for Isabela and had an awakening character as an NPC.

But Velanna doesn't "establish" herself as bisexual in Awakening either. Why would her being bisexual instead of Anders been better for you?

Modifié par catharsisboo, 16 février 2013 - 03:19 .

[draken-heart]

Xilizhra wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Why cant the devs/mods lock this thread right now?

Because the discussion currently going on is more productive than the one it started with.

but it id not longer the topic, which is the idea of NPC exclusive Same sex romance options being added to thegame, instead of making four LI bi fo rthe sake of equality.

[sarakirrer]

Rawgrim wrote...

Its kind of easy to see Anders as some sort of "catering", given the fact that he shouldn`t even be in Kirkwall when he shows up. According to the timeline, he is still in Amaranthine when he runs into Hawke. Go figure.

I think that his reappearance isn't about him being bisexual and is instead about the writers wanting his story/the story of DA2 to go in a particular direction.

[draken-heart]

catharsisboo wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its kind of easy to see Anders as some sort of "catering", given the fact that he shouldn`t even be in Kirkwall when he shows up. According to the timeline, he is still in Amaranthine when he runs into Hawke. Go figure.

All the companions are romanceable by both genders, so to say that Anders specifically is "catering" to the "gay crowd" because of an irrelevent timeline mix-up is silly.

They were going to use a companion from Awakening regardless. In his blog post regarding Anders, David Gaider states that Velanna was also considered for the role, so the timeline issue was always going to be present no matter (unless you think vaginas have the magical ability to cancel out time paradoxes).

To balance things out, Merrill or Isabela would likely have been replaced with another male LI, who would be available to both genders.

Could have also replaced Merrill with Velanna and Anders with anothe Male LI. that would have gotten rid of two issues. OR better yet, all new characters except for Isabela and had an awakening character as an NPC.

But Velanna doesn't "establish" herself as bisexual in Awakening either. Why would her being bisexual instead of Anders been better for you?

that is why I did the or better part. and because she does not really flirt with guys or girls she could go either way at all, but anders seem to me to make a better BI but no like Male hero thing (Like Jack from ME2, ok with being with either sex, but only availible for F/M romance).

Modifié par draken-heart, 16 février 2013 - 03:21 .

[Rawgrim]

catharsisboo wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

From what I gather...nobody has any problems with gays or bisexuals being in the game and whatsnot. But the fact that everyone is bisexual seems to be the problem. I see no bigotry in that bit, honestly.

It's a bit of a mixed bag of opinions. Some people advocate not everyone being bisexual because they would like to see more LIs being gay/lesbian, and that is perfectly fine. However, some people say it's "unrealistic" to have four bisexual people in your group of friends and ask for less s/s options at the same time. That to me seems a bit like bigotry.

Here is a fun idea. Wade or Herren as a love interest Would be fun to see how the other one reacts to it.

But Wade and Herren are together! I could never break them up, even though Wade is so adorable.

Naw, its not bigotry, it actually is kind of unrealistic. You run into 4 random people you have never met before, and all of them just happen to be bisexual? Quite the odds.


Yes, I know they are together. But picture the reactions if someone were to hit on one of the two?

Herren is actually the norwegian word for Lord\\Master. And he also turns into a desire demon in the darkspawn chronicles. Just some trivia. Might be some plot twist with those two down the road.

[Battlebloodmage]

Rawgrim wrote...

catharsisboo wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

From what I gather...nobody has any problems with gays or bisexuals being in the game and whatsnot. But the fact that everyone is bisexual seems to be the problem. I see no bigotry in that bit, honestly.

It's a bit of a mixed bag of opinions. Some people advocate not everyone being bisexual because they would like to see more LIs being gay/lesbian, and that is perfectly fine. However, some people say it's "unrealistic" to have four bisexual people in your group of friends and ask for less s/s options at the same time. That to me seems a bit like bigotry.

Here is a fun idea. Wade or Herren as a love interest Would be fun to see how the other one reacts to it.

But Wade and Herren are together! I could never break them up, even though Wade is so adorable.

Naw, its not bigotry, it actually is kind of unrealistic. You run into 4 random people you have never met before, and all of them just happen to be bisexual? Quite the odds.


Yes, I know they are together. But picture the reactions if someone were to hit on one of the two?

Herren is actually the norwegian word for LordMaster. And he also turns into a desire demon in the darkspawn chronicles. Just some trivia. Might be some plot twist with those two down the road.

Herren being a desire demon is not canon as confirmed by Bioware. 

[Rawgrim]

sarakirrer wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its kind of easy to see Anders as some sort of "catering", given the fact that he shouldn`t even be in Kirkwall when he shows up. According to the timeline, he is still in Amaranthine when he runs into Hawke. Go figure.

I think that his reappearance isn't about him being bisexual and is instead about the writers wanting his story/the story of DA2 to go in a particular direction.

I think so too. But given the time issue and whatsnot, i can see why someone might see it as "catering" or whatever.

[Plaintiff]

Rawgrim wrote...
The same goes for all the Awakening ones, of course. If they are busy elsewhere, they shouldn`t be in Kirkwall. Simple as that.

Maybe so, but their inclusion is not indicative of pandering to a same-sex audience. Anders temporal displacement is irrelevent to the issue of his sexuality. The two are unrelated. Which is why it confuses me that you brought one up in conjuction with the other.

draken-heart wrote...
And did I not mention Exclusive in the op?

Yes, but I don't understand how "exclusively gay" content is significantly different enough from "bisexual" content to cause an uproar.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 16 février 2013 - 03:24 .

[catharsisboo]

Rawgrim wrote...

catharsisboo wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

From what I gather...nobody has any problems with gays or bisexuals being in the game and whatsnot. But the fact that everyone is bisexual seems to be the problem. I see no bigotry in that bit, honestly.

It's a bit of a mixed bag of opinions. Some people advocate not everyone being bisexual because they would like to see more LIs being gay/lesbian, and that is perfectly fine. However, some people say it's "unrealistic" to have four bisexual people in your group of friends and ask for less s/s options at the same time. That to me seems a bit like bigotry.

Here is a fun idea. Wade or Herren as a love interest Would be fun to see how the other one reacts to it.

But Wade and Herren are together! I could never break them up, even though Wade is so adorable.

Naw, its not bigotry, it actually is kind of unrealistic. You run into 4 random people you have never met before, and all of them just happen to be bisexual? Quite the odds.


Yes, I know they are together. But picture the reactions if someone were to hit on one of the two?

Herren is actually the norwegian word for LordMaster. And he also turns into a desire demon in the darkspawn chronicles. Just some trivia. Might be some plot twist with those two down the road.

A said "a bit". It's just a little suspicious to me when people say that it's unrealistic AND they want less s/s options. It is a bit unrealistic, but so is magic and demons and dragons, so I'm fine with suspending my disbelief for four bisexual people.

Modifié par catharsisboo, 16 février 2013 - 03:25 .

[Rawgrim]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

catharsisboo wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

From what I gather...nobody has any problems with gays or bisexuals being in the game and whatsnot. But the fact that everyone is bisexual seems to be the problem. I see no bigotry in that bit, honestly.

It's a bit of a mixed bag of opinions. Some people advocate not everyone being bisexual because they would like to see more LIs being gay/lesbian, and that is perfectly fine. However, some people say it's "unrealistic" to have four bisexual people in your group of friends and ask for less s/s options at the same time. That to me seems a bit like bigotry.

Here is a fun idea. Wade or Herren as a love interest Would be fun to see how the other one reacts to it.

But Wade and Herren are together! I could never break them up, even though Wade is so adorable.

Naw, its not bigotry, it actually is kind of unrealistic. You run into 4 random people you have never met before, and all of them just happen to be bisexual? Quite the odds.


Yes, I know they are together. But picture the reactions if someone were to hit on one of the two?

Herren is actually the norwegian word for LordMaster. And he also turns into a desire demon in the darkspawn chronicles. Just some trivia. Might be some plot twist with those two down the road.

Herren being a desire demon is not canon as confirmed by Bioware. 

I know. but the name kind of fit