xAmilli0n wrote...
draken-heart wrote...
i am going to make a new thread tomorrow or something. About All Bi vs Gay/STR8/Bi. if you do post, try to keep it Civil and stay on topic.
That has been beat to death several times over already. Start that thread at you're own risk.
I don't see how it's different. I don't understand why the player should have complete freedom to choose who lives or dies in the story, but sexuality should be immutable.Rawgrim wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Isn't the freedom to make choices that impact on the narrative/characters exactly what people on this forum keep saying Dragon Age needs more of?Rawgrim wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
It is a shortcut. Gaider as said that he would prefer to do an even spread of sexualities, had he the resources. But the best way to be fair, given the limitations, is to simply make all four LIs romanceable by characters of both genders. Fairness trumps "realism" in this case, as it should in all cases, in my opinion.Rawgrim wrote...
Well i have no problems with more ss romances being added. I just don`t want them all to be bisexual. Feels like a shortcut as well.
Dragons and magic are part of the lore, so in Thedas its not unrealistic at all.
But he also doesn't consider all the LIs to be "bisexual" anyway, but rather the sexualities of some characters are player-determined. Meaning they can be bisexual, exclsively straight or exclusively gay, depending on what you want to do for that playthrough.
Thats kind of a problem. My character determining a companions sexuality, in a way. Feels like a sim rather than an rpg. People just changing sexuality and whatsnot, just to cater to my needs or whatever.
Freedom to change the story and whatsnot, yes. Not to change peoples sexuality from the get go. Thats different. Its about your actions and moral choices etc changing the story. Not picking an option about what you want a followers sexual orientation to be.
sarakirrer wrote...
Rawgrim wrote...
Thats kind of a problem. My character determining a companions sexuality, in a way. Feels like a sim rather than an rpg. People just changing sexuality and whatsnot, just to cater to my needs or whatever.
I agree with your belief that one's character determining a companion's sexuality is problematic, but I also believe it was the only way to show equal treatment to both gay and straight players considering the resources available. I'd rather play a game that has four bisexual love interests than a game that treats gay player characters and straight player characters unequally.
Plaintiff wrote...
I don't see how it's different. I don't understand why the player should have complete freedom to choose who lives or dies in the story, but sexuality should be immutable.Rawgrim wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Isn't the freedom to make choices that impact on the narrative/characters exactly what people on this forum keep saying Dragon Age needs more of?Rawgrim wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
It is a shortcut. Gaider as said that he would prefer to do an even spread of sexualities, had he the resources. But the best way to be fair, given the limitations, is to simply make all four LIs romanceable by characters of both genders. Fairness trumps "realism" in this case, as it should in all cases, in my opinion.Rawgrim wrote...
Well i have no problems with more ss romances being added. I just don`t want them all to be bisexual. Feels like a shortcut as well.
Dragons and magic are part of the lore, so in Thedas its not unrealistic at all.
But he also doesn't consider all the LIs to be "bisexual" anyway, but rather the sexualities of some characters are player-determined. Meaning they can be bisexual, exclsively straight or exclusively gay, depending on what you want to do for that playthrough.
Thats kind of a problem. My character determining a companions sexuality, in a way. Feels like a sim rather than an rpg. People just changing sexuality and whatsnot, just to cater to my needs or whatever.
Freedom to change the story and whatsnot, yes. Not to change peoples sexuality from the get go. Thats different. Its about your actions and moral choices etc changing the story. Not picking an option about what you want a followers sexual orientation to be.
draken-heart wrote...
xAmilli0n wrote...
draken-heart wrote...
i am going to make a new thread tomorrow or something. About All Bi vs Gay/STR8/Bi. if you do post, try to keep it Civil and stay on topic.
That has been beat to death several times over already. Start that thread at you're own risk.
Then this thread needs to get locked.
xAmilli0n wrote...
draken-heart wrote...
xAmilli0n wrote...
draken-heart wrote...
i am going to make a new thread tomorrow or something. About All Bi vs Gay/STR8/Bi. if you do post, try to keep it Civil and stay on topic.
That has been beat to death several times over already. Start that thread at you're own risk.
Then this thread needs to get locked.
But this thread got so lively. And I didn't mean to outright discourage you from making the more specific thread, just that you should be ready for the type of discussion that tends to bring.
Thrillho_82 wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
They're not your needs that are being catered to, but the needs of those who've been historically disenfranchised from this kind of thing. It's none of your concern.Thats kind of a problem. My character determining a companions sexuality, in a way. Feels like a sim rather than an rpg. People just changing sexuality and whatsnot, just to cater to my needs or whatever.
Not to mention that in any given playthrough, the majority of your companions are not bi. As an example If your pc is male Anders is gay, if your pc is female Anders is straight. That is not the same thing as bi.
draken-heart wrote...
the more specific thread was about NPC S/S LI specifically, not what is going on here.
Modifié par sarakirrer, 16 février 2013 - 04:09 .
Well, I don't have a problem with that. Choosing which of Hawke's siblings dies is also an out-of-game choice tied to class. And we make an out-of-game choice about the general state of the world, both in Dragon Age and Mass Effect in the form of save imports, which affects narrative and sidequests.Rawgrim wrote...
You pick who lives or die by doing an in gamein story action. Picking a characters sexuality is more like an Out-Of-Character choice. Abit like using an editor, in a way.
sarakirrer wrote...
draken-heart wrote...
the more specific thread was about NPC S/S LI specifically, not what is going on here.
That's true, but the discussion that's been going on here has been generally civil and productive--I think it would be a shame to discourage that from going on even though it's only tangentially related to the original topic.
Honestly, it bothers me that someone would hide that aspect of themselves from a person they purport to love.Harle Cerulean wrote...
Thrillho_82 wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
They're not your needs that are being catered to, but the needs of those who've been historically disenfranchised from this kind of thing. It's none of your concern.Thats kind of a problem. My character determining a companions sexuality, in a way. Feels like a sim rather than an rpg. People just changing sexuality and whatsnot, just to cater to my needs or whatever.
Not to mention that in any given playthrough, the majority of your companions are not bi. As an example If your pc is male Anders is gay, if your pc is female Anders is straight. That is not the same thing as bi.
No, Anders is always pansexual - he says so himself, ffs. Do I really need to link the post where Gaider says that while your perception may change between playthroughs, who Anders is doesn't change? Not telling f!Hawke about Karl doesn't make him straight, it makes him not telling the woman he's crushing on that he likes dick because it's irrelevant.
Plaintiff wrote...
Well, I don't have a problem with that. Choosing which of Hawke's siblings dies is also an out-of-game choice tied to class. And we make an out-of-game choice about the general state of the world, both in Dragon Age and Mass Effect in the form of save imports, which affects narrative and sidequests.Rawgrim wrote...
You pick who lives or die by doing an in gamein story action. Picking a characters sexuality is more like an Out-Of-Character choice. Abit like using an editor, in a way.
draken-heart wrote...
now you are all talking about random stuff in no relation to S/S NPC romances.
draken-heart wrote...
sarakirrer wrote...
draken-heart wrote...
the more specific thread was about NPC S/S LI specifically, not what is going on here.
That's true, but the discussion that's been going on here has been generally civil and productive--I think it would be a shame to discourage that from going on even though it's only tangentially related to the original topic.
now you are all talking about random stuff in no relation to S/S NPC romances.
Plaintiff wrote...
Honestly, it bothers me that someone would hide that aspect of themselves from a person they purport to love.Harle Cerulean wrote...
Thrillho_82 wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
They're not your needs that are being catered to, but the needs of those who've been historically disenfranchised from this kind of thing. It's none of your concern.Thats kind of a problem. My character determining a companions sexuality, in a way. Feels like a sim rather than an rpg. People just changing sexuality and whatsnot, just to cater to my needs or whatever.
Not to mention that in any given playthrough, the majority of your companions are not bi. As an example If your pc is male Anders is gay, if your pc is female Anders is straight. That is not the same thing as bi.
No, Anders is always pansexual - he says so himself, ffs. Do I really need to link the post where Gaider says that while your perception may change between playthroughs, who Anders is doesn't change? Not telling f!Hawke about Karl doesn't make him straight, it makes him not telling the woman he's crushing on that he likes dick because it's irrelevant.
Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 16 février 2013 - 04:29 .
Strik1101 wrote...
I dont mean to offend anyone with this post, so please don't take this the wrong way, but why is there so much emphasis on the sexuality of the companions/npc? Why is it so important for such a vocal portion of the player base i mean? Like, i dont understand why every character should need to cater to everyone's individual sexual preferences (the "every character/npc/romance option should be bi idea specifically). That isn't realistic, and the sexual portion of the game, while adding extra depth to the character arcs, is wholly unnecessary to the game in general. I would prefer romance options continue to be somewhat limited, to create a tighter focus on the characters, add more depth, make it more realistic, instead of having the option to **** around the country side instead of saving it.
Though like I said, the romance/sex portions of the game really aren't necessary, and i'll probably ignore them like I largely did in the past 2 games. I was just looking for context into this. I'm wholly in support of same-sex, bi-sex, and hetero-sex, but i think it would be super weird having every character with a possible romance option throwing them selves at the main character regardless of anyone's sexuality or gender.
Real people have preferences, its more realistic that the characters do as well.
Plaintiff wrote...
Honestly, it bothers me that someone would hide that aspect of themselves from a person they purport to love.
Perhaps social stigma. It's easier for a girl to admit that they had been with another girl before since many guys find it "hot" while a guy who had been with another guy would generally turn people off.sarakirrer wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Honestly, it bothers me that someone would hide that aspect of themselves from a person they purport to love.
It bothers me that someone would hide the fact that they were going to blow up the Chantry from a person the purport to love, too.
Joking aside, though, I agree with this sentiment. I always wished that Anders had also confided in a
female Hawke, if only because the fact that Karl was once Anders' lover
gave his loss and Anders' actions as a result of it a deeper meaning. I didn't really understand why Anders confiding in Hawke was restricted to male Hawke.
What I don't understand is, why the hell do you care? There isn't an optimal solution regardless because of resource issues, so this is literally the best we're going to get, and IN NO WAY does having sexually-restricted romance options somehow make the themes better. It simply does not work in any universe.Strik1101 wrote...
I dont mean to offend anyone with this post, so please don't take this the wrong way, but why is there so much emphasis on the sexuality of the companions/npc? Why is it so important for such a vocal portion of the player base i mean? Like, i dont understand why every character should need to cater to everyone's individual sexual preferences (the "every character/npc/romance option should be bi idea specifically). That isn't realistic, and the sexual portion of the game, while adding extra depth to the character arcs, is wholly unnecessary to the game in general. I would prefer romance options continue to be somewhat limited, to create a tighter focus on the characters, add more depth, make it more realistic, instead of having the option to **** around the country side instead of saving it.
Though like I said, the romance/sex portions of the game really aren't necessary, and i'll probably ignore them like I largely did in the past 2 games. I was just looking for context into this. I'm wholly in support of same-sex, bi-sex, and hetero-sex, but i think it would be super weird having every character with a possible romance option throwing them selves at the main character regardless of anyone's sexuality or gender.
Real people have preferences, its more realistic that the characters do as well.
Personally for me, as long as I have options in s/s option and not get stuck with just one option, I don't care if they're all bisexual or set orientations. I don't think it's asking too much to have equal representation. That's why if bisexality is not possible, I would generally prefer 2 bi/2 gay/2 straight.Rawgrim wrote...
Strik1101 wrote...
I dont mean to offend anyone with this post, so please don't take this the wrong way, but why is there so much emphasis on the sexuality of the companions/npc? Why is it so important for such a vocal portion of the player base i mean? Like, i dont understand why every character should need to cater to everyone's individual sexual preferences (the "every character/npc/romance option should be bi idea specifically). That isn't realistic, and the sexual portion of the game, while adding extra depth to the character arcs, is wholly unnecessary to the game in general. I would prefer romance options continue to be somewhat limited, to create a tighter focus on the characters, add more depth, make it more realistic, instead of having the option to **** around the country side instead of saving it.
Though like I said, the romance/sex portions of the game really aren't necessary, and i'll probably ignore them like I largely did in the past 2 games. I was just looking for context into this. I'm wholly in support of same-sex, bi-sex, and hetero-sex, but i think it would be super weird having every character with a possible romance option throwing them selves at the main character regardless of anyone's sexuality or gender.
Real people have preferences, its more realistic that the characters do as well.
Spot on.
Strik1101 wrote...
I dont mean to offend anyone with this post, so please don't take this the wrong way, but why is there so much emphasis on the sexuality of the companions/npc? Why is it so important for such a vocal portion of the player base i mean? Like, i dont understand why every character should need to cater to everyone's individual sexual preferences (the "every character/npc/romance option should be bi idea specifically). That isn't realistic, and the sexual portion of the game, while adding extra depth to the character arcs, is wholly unnecessary to the game in general. I would prefer romance options continue to be somewhat limited, to create a tighter focus on the characters, add more depth, make it more realistic, instead of having the option to **** around the country side instead of saving it.
Though like I said, the romance/sex portions of the game really aren't necessary, and i'll probably ignore them like I largely did in the past 2 games. I was just looking for context into this. I'm wholly in support of same-sex, bi-sex, and hetero-sex, but i think it would be super weird having every character with a possible romance option throwing them selves at the main character regardless of anyone's sexuality or gender.
Real people have preferences, its more realistic that the characters do as well.
Modifié par sarakirrer, 16 février 2013 - 04:35 .
Xilizhra wrote...
What I don't understand is, why the hell do you care? There isn't an optimal solution regardless because of resource issues, so this is literally the best we're going to get, and IN NO WAY does having sexually-restricted romance options somehow make the themes better. It simply does not work in any universe.Strik1101 wrote...
I dont mean to offend anyone with this post, so please don't take this the wrong way, but why is there so much emphasis on the sexuality of the companions/npc? Why is it so important for such a vocal portion of the player base i mean? Like, i dont understand why every character should need to cater to everyone's individual sexual preferences (the "every character/npc/romance option should be bi idea specifically). That isn't realistic, and the sexual portion of the game, while adding extra depth to the character arcs, is wholly unnecessary to the game in general. I would prefer romance options continue to be somewhat limited, to create a tighter focus on the characters, add more depth, make it more realistic, instead of having the option to **** around the country side instead of saving it.
Though like I said, the romance/sex portions of the game really aren't necessary, and i'll probably ignore them like I largely did in the past 2 games. I was just looking for context into this. I'm wholly in support of same-sex, bi-sex, and hetero-sex, but i think it would be super weird having every character with a possible romance option throwing them selves at the main character regardless of anyone's sexuality or gender.
Real people have preferences, its more realistic that the characters do as well.
You can have "great" themes, but they won't be better than they would be with bisexual characters, as you said. And what I meant is that the idea of the themes being superior doesn't work in any universe.Sure you can have great themes when the romances are "restricted" as well. They neither make them better or worse. And it does work in plenty "universes".
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