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[New Display Name]

draken-heart wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

draken-heart wrote...


perhaps, but it has to be a good reason for the characters that are homosexual being homosexual. The all bi option irked me a little because the Bi/PC-sexuality of Fenris and Merrill appeared to come out of the blue with no explanation.

I don't think people need a reason to be homosexual, just saying.

Rephrase: Have a good acknowledgement that they are homosexual. That sound better?

Only if straight characters must have a good acknowledgement that they're straight too.

Modifié par HJF4, 13 février 2013 - 10:17 .

[draken-heart]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

draken-heart wrote...


perhaps, but it has to be a good reason for the characters that are homosexual being homosexual. The all bi option irked me a little because the Bi/PC-sexuality of Fenris and Merrill appeared to come out of the blue with no explanation.

I don't think people need a reason to be homosexual, just saying.

Rephrase: Have a good acknowledgement that they are homosexual. That sound better?

I have edited my quote to reflect that.

Alistair mentions being raised to treat WOMEN with respect. Morrigan mentions acting the scared girl to get her way around MEN. how is that not acknowledgement.

[DialupToaster]

Anyone else unable to take any of draken-heart's threads serious? All I've seen ended up as:
DH: I want this, what do you guys think?
BSN: Nope.avi
DH:Well you're wrong.

[Dhiro]

randomchasegurney wrote...

Anyone else unable to take any of draken-heart's threads serious? All I've seen ended up as:
DH: I want this, what do you guys think?
BSN: Nope.avi
DH:Well you're wrong.

To be fair, that's how most thread here work.

[SgtElias]

draken-heart wrote...

SgtElias wrote...

So you're saying that, yes, if Fenris had had such a line, it would have felt less jarring to you?

And I'm going to ask you about the "good reason" thing again. By "good reason to be homosexual" do you mean "backstory"? Because I don't really understand why having two straight characters in your party needs no explanation, but having to gay/lesbian characters does.

Yes to the backstory, Like Cortez from ME3, mentioning the husband and all. Morrigan does mention having charmed men, effectively stating she was straight, and Zevran and Leliana both mention their attraction to the same gender.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Alistair mentioning it. I remember him saying that he was a virgin, but never one way or the other men/women. Did it strike you as odd that he didn't mention it, but was straight? Did his preference feel like it came out of the blue?

I don't want to put words in your mouth or thoughts in your head, but it sounds like you're implying that being straight is sort of a default that doesn't really require explanation, but being bisexual or gay, because they aren't the "default," require more backstory.

If that's not what you're saying here, I apologize. But if it is, then . . . I think I see the reason you didn't understand why other posters might have been against your initial idea.

And this:

Alistair mentions being raised to treat WOMEN with respect

has nothing to do with his sexuality. At all. To me, anyway. You can replace the word "women" with "mother" or "parents." I guess I just don't see it.

Modifié par SgtElias, 13 février 2013 - 10:25 .

[Battlebloodmage]

draken-heart wrote...



Alistair mentions being raised to treat WOMEN with respect. Morrigan mentions acting the scared girl to get her way around MEN. how is that not acknowledgement.

Well, Merrill did comment on the aesthetic of Kossith while Fenris slept with Isabela. Anders had a boyfriend while at the same time, suggested through conversation that he had slept with Isabela as well. I'm not sure how much sexual clarification you need but not every character need to comment on their sexuality. They could just are.

[DialupToaster]

Dhiro wrote...

randomchasegurney wrote...

DH:Well you're wrong.

To be fair, that's how most thread here work.

But then they also end up as a delicious flame war.... It's what keeps me coming here tbh. (I'm a terrible person:unsure:)

Modifié par randomchasegurney, 13 février 2013 - 10:24 .

[draken-heart]

SgtElias wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

SgtElias wrote...

So you're saying that, yes, if Fenris had had such a line, it would have felt less jarring to you?

And I'm going to ask you about the "good reason" thing again. By "good reason to be homosexual" do you mean "backstory"? Because I don't really understand why having two straight characters in your party needs no explanation, but having to gay/lesbian characters does.

Yes to the backstory, Like Cortez from ME3, mentioning the husband and all. Morrigan does mention having charmed men, effectively stating she was straight, and Zevran and Leliana both mention their attraction to the same gender.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Alistair mentioning it. I remember him saying that he was a virgin, but never one way or the other men/women. Did it strike you as odd that he didn't mention it, but was straight? Did his preference feel like it came out of the blue?

I don't want to put words in your mouth or thoughts in your head, but it sounds like you're implying that being straight is sort of a default that doesn't really require explanation, but being bisexual or gay, because they aren't the "default," require more backstory.

If that's not what you're saying here, I apologize. But if it is, then . . . I think I see the reason you didn't understand why other posters might have been against your initial idea.

You have to romance him as a female warden to get the "respet women and not sleep with them on the first date" dialogue.

[Iakus]

SgtElias wrote...

I'm certainly not going to argue with that, if Bioware ever wanted to go that route (resources, etc). I always play my first character bisexual, so what you effectively just said to me is, "Hey Elias! Your romances just went from four to six!"

I'm in favor of making things fair. Whether that's removing all romance, making all romances be with NPCs, or representing everyone via the party romances, as long as it's equal, I'll always support it.

Actually, you'd still have four choices as the m/f choice that's the same gender as your character wouldn't be interested as would the s/s choice opposite your gender

But yes, this is the fairest setup I've heard (I can't take credit for coming up with this idea, I've ehard it from elsewhere)  I personally don't like "hero-sexual" as a basis for romance, as I feel it takes away from the uniqueness of a character.  An all-bi cast is an acceptable substitute, I suppose, but just seems oddly coincidental.

I admit it is a risk in diluting content for all, but on the other hand, What I favor is quality.  A well-done NPC romance is worth more than "three conversations then hop into the sack" companion romance.

[draken-heart]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

draken-heart wrote...



Alistair mentions being raised to treat WOMEN with respect. Morrigan mentions acting the scared girl to get her way around MEN. how is that not acknowledgement.

Well, Merrill did comment on the aesthetic of Kossith while Fenris slept with Isabela. Anders had a boyfriend while at the same time, suggested through conversation that he had slept with Isabela as well. I'm not sure how much sexual clarification you need but not every character need to comment on their sexuality. They could just are.

Kind of like that tbh. The mention of Cortez's husband in ME3 is a good example of clarifying acknolwedgment.

[New Display Name]

I don't get why homosexual, bisexual, omnisexual, pansexual, demisexual, heterosexual, asexual or whatever "need" a reason or previous acknowledgement. Not everyone is going to telegraph their orientation before flirting or a "romance."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Alistair mentioning it. I remember him saying that he was a virgin, but never one way or the other men/women. Did it strike you as odd that he didn't mention it, but was straight? Did his preference feel like it came out of the blue?

I think Alistair has banter with Morrigan about Alistair staring at her breasts. Almost no BW character ever at all (the only character I guess of is Samantha) actually says "I'm interested in __, but not __," so you probably wouldn't see Alistair saying he doesn't like men anyway.

[New Display Name]

iakus wrote...

SgtElias wrote...

I'm certainly not going to argue with that, if Bioware ever wanted to go that route (resources, etc). I always play my first character bisexual, so what you effectively just said to me is, "Hey Elias! Your romances just went from four to six!"

I'm in favor of making things fair. Whether that's removing all romance, making all romances be with NPCs, or representing everyone via the party romances, as long as it's equal, I'll always support it.

Actually, you'd still have four choices as the m/f choice that's the same gender as your character wouldn't be interested as would the s/s choice opposite your gender

But yes, this is the fairest setup I've heard (I can't take credit for coming up with this idea, I've ehard it from elsewhere)  I personally don't like "hero-sexual" as a basis for romance, as I feel it takes away from the uniqueness of a character.  An all-bi cast is an acceptable substitute, I suppose, but just seems oddly coincidental.

I admit it is a risk in diluting content for all, but on the other hand, What I favor is quality.  A well-done NPC romance is worth more than "three conversations then hop into the sack" companion romance.

Would you prefer a 4-bi with superb romances set up or a 6-straight-gay-bi setup with average romance? I would think the former is more likely to happen in a game than the later.

[Battlebloodmage]

HJF4 wrote...

I don't get why homosexual, bisexual, omnisexual, pansexual, demisexual, heterosexual, asexual or whatever "need" a reason or previous acknowledgement. Not everyone is going to telegraph their orientation before flirting or a "romance."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Alistair mentioning it. I remember him saying that he was a virgin, but never one way or the other men/women. Did it strike you as odd that he didn't mention it, but was straight? Did his preference feel like it came out of the blue?

I think Alistair has banter with Morrigan about Alistair staring at her breasts. Almost no BW character ever at all (the only character I guess of is Samantha) actually says "I'm interested in __, but not __," so you probably wouldn't see Alistair saying he doesn't like men anyway.

Alistair was checking out Morrigan's nose actually. Oghren did get really offended when he thought Zevran was hitting on him, then again, he was almost gay for Nathaniel Howe.

[SgtElias]

draken-heart wrote...

SgtElias wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Alistair mentioning it. I remember him saying that he was a virgin, but never one way or the other men/women. Did it strike you as odd that he didn't mention it, but was straight? Did his preference feel like it came out of the blue?

You have to romance him as a female warden to get the "respet women and not sleep with them on the first date" dialogue.

I have. He's my, well, "canon" romance.

Okay, I guess I've explained my position. I don't want to sling words about like "double standard," because I'm not you. But I will say that I disagree with your idea on the premise that I think it unfairly excludes same-sex romances from the party.

And we can agree to disagree.

[draken-heart]

HJF4 wrote...

iakus wrote...

SgtElias wrote...

I'm certainly not going to argue with that, if Bioware ever wanted to go that route (resources, etc). I always play my first character bisexual, so what you effectively just said to me is, "Hey Elias! Your romances just went from four to six!"

I'm in favor of making things fair. Whether that's removing all romance, making all romances be with NPCs, or representing everyone via the party romances, as long as it's equal, I'll always support it.

Actually, you'd still have four choices as the m/f choice that's the same gender as your character wouldn't be interested as would the s/s choice opposite your gender

But yes, this is the fairest setup I've heard (I can't take credit for coming up with this idea, I've ehard it from elsewhere)  I personally don't like "hero-sexual" as a basis for romance, as I feel it takes away from the uniqueness of a character.  An all-bi cast is an acceptable substitute, I suppose, but just seems oddly coincidental.

I admit it is a risk in diluting content for all, but on the other hand, What I favor is quality.  A well-done NPC romance is worth more than "three conversations then hop into the sack" companion romance.

Would you prefer a 4-bi with superb romances set up or a 6-straight-gay-bi setup with average romance? I would think the former is more likely to happen in a game than the later.

What are the odds of 4 bi people being around each other at the same time. Best to call one Demisexual/Asexual except for those they form close bond with.

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

Actually, you'd still have four choices as the m/f choice that's the same gender as your character wouldn't be interested as would the s/s choice opposite your gender

But yes, this is the fairest setup I've heard (I can't take credit for coming up with this idea, I've ehard it from elsewhere)  I personally don't like "hero-sexual" as a basis for romance, as I feel it takes away from the uniqueness of a character.  An all-bi cast is an acceptable substitute, I suppose, but just seems oddly coincidental.

I admit it is a risk in diluting content for all, but on the other hand, What I favor is quality.  A well-done NPC romance is worth more than "three conversations then hop into the sack" companion romance.

Not as far as i'm concerned. The bonus of companions is they can be alongside the protaganist throughout the story which greatly adds to the romance experience, beyond the simple romance specific content.

[SgtElias]

iakus wrote...

Actually, you'd still have four choices as the m/f choice that's the same gender as your character wouldn't be interested as would the s/s choice opposite your gender

I play as male and female characters, so I meant overall.

[New Display Name]

What are the odds of 4 bi people being around each other at the same time. Best to call one Demisexual/Asexual except for those they form close bond with.

Do you assume that Thedas has the same sexuality demographics as we do? It doesn't have to, it's fiction and has dragons and darkspawn. If 4 bisexual people in the party is unrealistic, so is having a mage in it.

[SgtElias]

draken-heart wrote...

What are the odds of 4 bi people being around each other at the same time.

There are six adults that live in my house. Only one is straight. And it's not like I put out an add that said "only bisexual people need apply." We met because we all had kids and wanted to do the same hobbies (tabletop gaming, among other things) on the weekends.

I'm not saying everyone's house is like mine, but I don't think one person knowing four bisexual people is super uncommon, either.

Modifié par SgtElias, 13 février 2013 - 10:38 .

[Iakus]

wright1978 wrote...

Not as far as i'm concerned. The bonus of companions is they can be alongside the protaganist throughout the story which greatly adds to the romance experience, beyond the simple romance specific content.

Well, yes, the advantage is that the companion is around a lot to talk to.  That's why NPC romances like Samantha and Steve can work out well, as even though they are not companions on the battlefield, you hang out with them a lot between missions.  If an NPC is important enough to the overall story, I don't see why a romance couldn't form even if you can't take them out adventuring.

[Iakus]

SgtElias wrote...

iakus wrote...

Actually, you'd still have four choices as the m/f choice that's the same gender as your character wouldn't be interested as would the s/s choice opposite your gender

I play as male and female characters, so I meant overall.

Ah, I thought you were referring to the first character you played

[ggghhhxxxpuf]

draken-heart wrote...

Rephrase: Have a good acknowledgement that they are homosexual. That sound better?

Cortez was well done and paced as Samantha was (despite the shower and pub being a little too ugh for my taste), and I agree on having NPC romances, but why only S/S?
I'm all for options and, really, bi LI are the way to go.

The Anders case was well done as Isabellas by your standards, but that doesn't mean Merrill or Fenris wasn't, or that their preferences spawned from thin air, they are just not explained or expanded to the player, and this is not a bad thing. In Fenris case you could blame his amnesia and Merrill just being a private person in that topic.

You get attached to them as characters and then decide to go for their romances subplots, if they are receptive that's ok, if they are not, like Aveline or Varric, it's ok too.

People overthink too much about these things.

[SgtElias]

iakus wrote...

SgtElias wrote...

I play as male and female characters, so I meant overall.

Ah, I thought you were referring to the first character you played

Yeah, I didn't make that very clear. Apologies.

[Lennard Testarossa]

HJF4 wrote...
If 4 bisexual people in the party is unrealistic, so is having a mage in it.

Can people stop using "Hurr durr, it's fantasy!" as an argument already?

[Iakus]

HJF4 wrote...

Would you prefer a 4-bi with superb romances set up or a 6-straight-gay-bi setup with average romance? I would think the former is more likely to happen in a game than the later.

Well like I said, four bi LI's is acceptable, though odd.  It's "hero-sexual" LI's I'm specifically against.

And again, quality is key.  Maybe better romances can be done with four than six.  Maybe it makes no difference, I dunno.  I just know I prefer characters to have definitive sexualities and going with six seems to be the most fair way to have that and options for all.