642 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Xilizhra wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No I was saying that he was talking about future titles, and that I was expressing my own hopes (which differ from his) for future titles based on Mass Effect 3's handling of heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual companions.

ME3's were patchwork. DA2 does it more or less perfectly.

I don't understand, elaborate?

"We're trying to update our social mores into the current century, but have too many characters who are straight already... slap these two random gay people on the ship and hope it counts."

Or as in DA2..."Just use the exact same dialogue for male and female characters when talking to a male or female love interest. Use the exact same cutscenes, and make no effort at making the game actually recognize your gender at all"

[Battlebloodmage]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes, that's what I freakin' meant to begin with.

But " S/S exclusive" doesn't have anything to do with parties, with non-party or with party members. It means s/he's ONLY talking about S/S, as opposed to straight.

In one of his posts in the other threads saying that "It is kind of like if the character is gay but they are needed and end up flirting first, it could put them off and make people not use them, making the character useless. Non-party F/F eliminates the problem of debating whether or not to ignore a character you want to use simply because they are homosexual and overly flirtin"

Basically, one of his reasons to make S/S NPC is because it makes people more comfortable and avoid homosexuals in their game. It's like asking for a toggle option which is very discrimatory in nature. 

[Xilizhra]

Zkyire wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No I was saying that he was talking about future titles, and that I was expressing my own hopes (which differ from his) for future titles based on Mass Effect 3's handling of heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual companions.

ME3's were patchwork. DA2 does it more or less perfectly.

I don't understand, elaborate?

"We're trying to update our social mores into the current century, but have too many characters who are straight already... slap these two random gay people on the ship and hope it counts."

Oh fair enough.

Then yes, agreed on that point.

But it doesn't detract from them being decent characters to begin with. Yes they were tacked on, but they were given some depth.

True, but it's a solution for something that couldn't be designed from the ground up. DA has no such restrictions, and shouldn't be designed that way.

Or as in DA2..."Just use the exact same dialogue for male and female
characters when talking to a male or female love interest. Use the exact
same cutscenes, and make no effort at making the game actually
recognize your gender at all"

Ah, yes, because no bisexual people can ever treat lovers of the same gender basically the same way. Of course, if you want to add even more resources to the romances, be my guest.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 14 février 2013 - 05:47 .

[Rawgrim]

Xilizhra wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No I was saying that he was talking about future titles, and that I was expressing my own hopes (which differ from his) for future titles based on Mass Effect 3's handling of heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual companions.

ME3's were patchwork. DA2 does it more or less perfectly.

I don't understand, elaborate?

"We're trying to update our social mores into the current century, but have too many characters who are straight already... slap these two random gay people on the ship and hope it counts."

Oh fair enough.

Then yes, agreed on that point.

But it doesn't detract from them being decent characters to begin with. Yes they were tacked on, but they were given some depth.

True, but it's a solution for something that couldn't be designed from the ground up. DA has no such restrictions, and shouldn't be designed that way.

Or as in DA2..."Just use the exact same dialogue for male and female
characters when talking to a male or female love interest. Use the exact
same cutscenes, and make no effort at making the game actually
recognize your gender at all"

Ah, yes, because no bisexual people can ever treat lovers of the same gender basically the same way. Of course, if you want to add even more resources to the romances, be my guest.

Everyone thats available simply ignoring your gender is too much "supension of disbelief". If 1 did it, I could get behind it. Its just rushed. Thats the whole reason. Same thing with just having 1 cave map in the entire game.

[Battlebloodmage]

With NPC romance, it then becomes who gets the short-end of the stick. Of course going by mass appeal, they would make the NPC LI be the gay ones for more appeal and avoid having gays travel with them like they did with ME.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 14 février 2013 - 05:53 .

[karushna5]

I disagree with it being the exact same. There are several instances where the characters will recognize your gender. Merrill romance scene differs slightly because a female Merrill with a male Hawke has to worry about children, and worries more about clan disapproval. Anders is much more careful with a female PC. Fenris responds a few times quite differently to a male Hawkes flirts, I never did Isabela so that is harder to figure out. They all pay you compliments to your gender. I would admit it is subtle, but I wouldn't say it is the same. Me and my roommate were surprised about the little differences in gender that made it unique.

[Battlebloodmage]

That was the quote found here:

http://social.biowar...dex/14140424/55

I got flirted with so many times by the opposite sex in many other games, it's a nice change for it to happen with the same-sex in DA2. There are forced straight contents everywhere, you just don't notice it.

[Xilizhra]

I dislike this viewpoint that a toggle is discriminitory. One might argue that forcing one's content on people who don't want it is far more discriminitory (be that straght, be that gay). A toggle would be better for everyone to have their preferred...orientation.

Hardly. Only actually being forced to sleep with them would be that bad.

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Hardly. Only actually being forced to sleep with them would be that bad.

It's a personal, subjective thing Xil. Some might be offended by it--and that's their perogative. Why can't they be?

They can be, as can other (and more) people be offended by the existence of a toggle, hence having it not be included.

[SgtElias]

EntropicAngel wrote...

 One might argue that forcing one's content on people who don't want it is far more discriminitory (be that straght, be that gay). A toggle would be better for everyone to have their preferred...orientation.

So, in future games, you'd rather companion characters didn't express attraction (gay, or straight) one way or the other unless the PC pursues the matter first?

I'm genuinely asking, by the way, not trying to start an argument.

[Battlebloodmage]

Where did I bash anyone?

It's a fact of life, and I just have to accept that. I'm a grown-up, I can handle being flirted with, but that doesn't mean I have to reciprocate the affection.

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

They can be, as can other (and more) people be offended by the existence of a toggle, hence having it not be included.

But the purpose of a toggle is to remove offense. The purpose of a toggle is to remove that which offends you. To oppose a toggle is to oppose the removal of that which offends someone.

One might go a step further and say to oppose a toggle is to promote content on those who are offended by it. To "force" it on them.

Yes, except such a thing would be moronic, because it implies that those who possess sensibilities that delicate deserve to live in a world where no one homosexual will ever show themselves as being such nearby, ever. And to impress that kind of thing as a legitimate possibility is itself more legitimately offensive.

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes, except such a thing would be moronic, because it implies that those who possess sensibilities that delicate deserve to live in a world where no one homosexual will ever show themselves as being such nearby, ever. And to impress that kind of thing as a legitimate possibility is itself more legitimately offensive.

I think there's a difference between "no homosexuals" and "no homosexuals flirting with me."

I was going off of the second circumstance. The first is another situation entirely.

In that case, why not just not have flirting at all unless one of the characters just happens to be flirtarious? Which, incidentally, is what we got anyway.

[Rawgrim]

Xilizhra wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Hardly. Only actually being forced to sleep with them would be that bad.

It's a personal, subjective thing Xil. Some might be offended by it--and that's their perogative. Why can't they be?

They can be, as can other (and more) people be offended by the existence of a toggle, hence having it not be included.

I think the "offended card" is allready down the drain with this series. Just to play devil`s advocate abit here. I do think the inclusion of same sex relationships is offending alot more people, than a love interest toggle would. Most of the large religions being the factor here. Personally I am not offended by either at all. People get offended by anything. The devs should just ignore it and just make a good game.

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In that case, why not just not have flirting at all unless one of the characters just happens to be flirtarious? Which, incidentally, is what we got anyway.

But they don't would rather not homosexuals flirting with them. And that still isn't solved by what we have (at least for DA ][--ME3 was a bit better and honestly the way I'd prefer the romantic interaction to go. Romantic interaction, not the specific numbers and full-party or non-party aspect).

Why does anything in DA2 need to be solved? And, quite frankly, they can deal with it. If I can do so for numerous heterosexual flirtations with minimal impact, they can do so on their end.

[Battlebloodmage]

I think if the game is good, people will buy it. Skyrim has "bisexuality" in it, and it sold extremely well. DAO had it as well, even though they don't have the homosexual LIs (Isabela and Anders) initiate the move but still.

[Rawgrim]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

I think if the game is good, people will buy it. Skyrim has "bisexuality" in it, and it sold extremely well. DAO had it as well, even though they don't have the homosexual LIs (Isabela and Anders) initiate the move but still.

I think Zevran and Leliana can initiate moves.