Renmiri1 wrote...
Merril may be a bit airheaded but she is a bloodmage and can wipe the floor with anyone who attacks the party.
She reminds me of Phoebe from Friends, not a child, an adult but with child like talk sometimes
draken-heart wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Why does anything in DA2 need to be solved? And, quite frankly, they can deal with it. If I can do so for numerous heterosexual flirtations with minimal impact, they can do so on their end.EntropicAngel wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
In that case, why not just not have flirting at all unless one of the characters just happens to be flirtarious? Which, incidentally, is what we got anyway.
But they don't would rather not homosexuals flirting with them. And that still isn't solved by what we have (at least for DA ][--ME3 was a bit better and honestly the way I'd prefer the romantic interaction to go. Romantic interaction, not the specific numbers and full-party or non-party aspect).
I never really liked the All-BI set up anyways. I know it is fantasy, but even in fantasy, four bisexuals/demisexuals joining the party around the same time frame, that seemed really unrealistic.
Soundsystem wrote...
draken-heart wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Why does anything in DA2 need to be solved? And, quite frankly, they can deal with it. If I can do so for numerous heterosexual flirtations with minimal impact, they can do so on their end.EntropicAngel wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
In that case, why not just not have flirting at all unless one of the characters just happens to be flirtarious? Which, incidentally, is what we got anyway.
But they don't would rather not homosexuals flirting with them. And that still isn't solved by what we have (at least for DA ][--ME3 was a bit better and honestly the way I'd prefer the romantic interaction to go. Romantic interaction, not the specific numbers and full-party or non-party aspect).
I never really liked the All-BI set up anyways. I know it is fantasy, but even in fantasy, four bisexuals/demisexuals joining the party around the same time frame, that seemed really unrealistic.
This is hilarious. Most of my friend group is bisexual/queer.
But really... you can be okay with Flemeth during into a dragon and putting part of her soul into something, which can then be used to bring her back to life with some magic words. But four bisexual people knowing each other is just WAY TOO MUCH.
Honestly, I find that people who are against the bisexual options are assuming that everyone else in Thedas you encounter is straight. Newsflash folks: Straight is not some magical default that you are unless stated. For all we know, many many characters encountered have been bisexual or queer.
As a queer person.. if you hung out with me you might not know I am queer. Because that day I might only comment on a hot guy I see, and not any of the ladies. Or I might not feel like coming out. Otherdays, I might only comment on a pretty lady, and not any men. That doesn't make me gay for the day, just as the first option doesn't make me straight. So, really, can we stop assuming the sexualities of characters?
ANYWAYS. To the topic of this thread... Having S/S options who are NPC's seems like it could be used as a way to keep teh gay out've the party. I would be okay with it as long as there are also S/S romance options within the party as well, so that it doesn't have the conotation of keeping queer characters out of the party. Though really, to be fair then there would also need to be O/S (opposite sex) NPC romance options.
The majority of elves we've seen so far, whose sexuality has been brought up, have been bisexual. Hence, with that as a sort of norm for them, Merrill and Fenris fit perfectly. This only leaves Isabela and Anders, who are perfectly acceptable statistically (though really, the odds that any party would naturally absorb the combination of Aveline/Isabela/Anders/Fenris are very low too). In any case, none of them are truly into the PC beyond a moment of attraction unless the PC pursues this.People being able to shapeshift and do magic is part of the lore of the game. Ergo its not unrealistic in Thedas. Everyone being bisexual is not part of the lore of the gameworld (yet), so a bunch of them just happening to run into eachother, and all of them just happen to be very much into the PC is abit unrealistic.
What does that have to do with anything?Rawgrim wrote...
Battlebloodmage wrote...
Still beat only having one option to choose from. If you don't like the only option available, tough luck. If Cortez was the only option, my Shep would have been forever alone.
Its a roleplaying game, though. Not a dating sim. I didn`t like any of the love interests in ME1. Tought luck for me too. The game was still damn good.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 février 2013 - 06:46 .
What's "unrealisitic" is that we're supposed to accept the notion that several characters are apparently more than willing to engage in a sexual relationship with a member of another species, but not with same-gendered members of their own species.Rawgrim wrote...
People being able to shapeshift and do magic is part of the lore of the game. Ergo its not unrealistic in Thedas. Everyone being bisexual is not part of the lore of the gameworld (yet), so a bunch of them just happening to run into eachother, and all of them just happen to be very much into the PC is abit unrealistic.
Plaintiff wrote...
Bioware obviously can't account for everyone's precise personal taste, but they can at least make an effort to represent sexual minorities. Something they apparently just weren't able to do for homosexual men in ME1 or 2, despite apparently being more than capable of providing six heterosexual romance options in a single game, and minor content for people who might be interested in pursuing a lesbian relationship.
Whether or not a homosexual player likes the options presented to him is irrelevent, the problem is that there aren't any for the first two games and then only two in ME3.
It would've been relatively simple to make any of the ME2 romances bisexual or same-sex only, if they'd just bothered to do it. Homosexual romance content is not any more difficult to create than heterosexual romance content, it's purely a matter of pronouns. There's really no excuse for the lack of it in ME1 or ME2, nor for providing up to seven potential romanceable women for a heterosexual manShepard in ME3, while every other sexual orientation makes do with less than half that amount.
That excuse worked... sort of... in ME1. It stopped in ME2, when the same damned company's own Dragon Age got away with it. Not that I'm terribly angry about it, but it's noteworthy.Actually, there is a VERY good reason for them to not have had any homosexual romances in the first 2 ME games. The fact that few, if any, other games had done it therefore they didn't know if it would be accepted. And, the fact that even just those few years ago homosexuality was more frowned on then it is today. Heck, I'm not sure if any States even allowed gay marriage when ME2 was being developed. The simple fact of the matter is there are more heterosexuals then homosexuals in the world. Ergo, it makes sense for a company to produce a product aimed at the clientele they KNOW they have, instead of a minority to whom that content may end up alienating to the majority.
Dazzle me.Wolfva2 wrote...
Actually, there is a VERY good reason for them to not have had any homosexual romances in the first 2 ME games.
I don't consider that an acceptable excuse. If "it hasn't been done before" was a good reaason to not do things, then no new developments would ever be made.The fact that few, if any, other games had done it therefore they didn't know if it would be accepted
I don't consider kowtowing to moronic bigotry to be an acceptable excuse either.And, the fact that even just those few years ago homosexuality was more frowned on then it is today. Heck, I'm not sure if any States even allowed gay marriage when ME2 was being developed. The simple fact of the matter is there are more heterosexuals then homosexuals in the world. Ergo, it makes sense for a company to produce a product aimed at the clientele they KNOW they have, instead of a minority to whom that content may end up alienating to the majority.
Considering they had seven romanceable females for a straight Shepard, I think it would've been more than feasible, yes. Some of those females might have needed to be cut out of development at the conceptual stage, however, in order to make room for the new characters, and others would need to be reconceptualised as bisexuals or lesbians.Of course, as time went on many people started clamoring for homosexual romances. In ME3, there were 2. Could they have had more? I don't know. You tell me.
I'm glad that they're doing it, yes. But as the only game company that is doing it, flaws in their implementation are much more obvious. And it affects the amount of money they get from me.You spend most of the time flitting around the universe in command of a frigate, occasionally hopping out to kill things. Not exactly a dating mecca for anyone. (Personally, I dislike the idea of romance on your ship; what about the chain of command? Morale? ) But I digress. Bioware has seen that they can include homosexuality in their games without it adversely affecting their bottom dollar. Heck, you should be happy for them. After all, they've pioneered not only romance options, but homosexual romance options! You don't see THAT in WoW, do you? Or any other game really. To look back and say, "Well, they COULD have done THIS, or THAT! But they didn't so they're bad!' is ludicrous. This is new ground they've broken, who can blame them for going slowly?
Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 février 2013 - 07:30 .
Well... to be fair, the only reason any company really considers important is "will this make us more or less money?"I don't consider kowtowing to moronic bigotry to be an acceptable excuse either.
Rawgrim wrote...
Soundsystem wrote...
draken-heart wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Why does anything in DA2 need to be solved? And, quite frankly, they can deal with it. If I can do so for numerous heterosexual flirtations with minimal impact, they can do so on their end.EntropicAngel wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
In that case, why not just not have flirting at all unless one of the characters just happens to be flirtarious? Which, incidentally, is what we got anyway.
But they don't would rather not homosexuals flirting with them. And that still isn't solved by what we have (at least for DA ][--ME3 was a bit better and honestly the way I'd prefer the romantic interaction to go. Romantic interaction, not the specific numbers and full-party or non-party aspect).
I never really liked the All-BI set up anyways. I know it is fantasy, but even in fantasy, four bisexuals/demisexuals joining the party around the same time frame, that seemed really unrealistic.
This is hilarious. Most of my friend group is bisexual/queer.
But really... you can be okay with Flemeth during into a dragon and putting part of her soul into something, which can then be used to bring her back to life with some magic words. But four bisexual people knowing each other is just WAY TOO MUCH.
Honestly, I find that people who are against the bisexual options are assuming that everyone else in Thedas you encounter is straight. Newsflash folks: Straight is not some magical default that you are unless stated. For all we know, many many characters encountered have been bisexual or queer.
As a queer person.. if you hung out with me you might not know I am queer. Because that day I might only comment on a hot guy I see, and not any of the ladies. Or I might not feel like coming out. Otherdays, I might only comment on a pretty lady, and not any men. That doesn't make me gay for the day, just as the first option doesn't make me straight. So, really, can we stop assuming the sexualities of characters?
ANYWAYS. To the topic of this thread... Having S/S options who are NPC's seems like it could be used as a way to keep teh gay out've the party. I would be okay with it as long as there are also S/S romance options within the party as well, so that it doesn't have the conotation of keeping queer characters out of the party. Though really, to be fair then there would also need to be O/S (opposite sex) NPC romance options.
People being able to shapeshift and do magic is part of the lore of the game. Ergo its not unrealistic in Thedas. Everyone being bisexual is not part of the lore of the gameworld (yet), so a bunch of them just happening to run into eachother, and all of them just happen to be very much into the PC is abit unrealistic.
Modifié par Thrillho_82, 15 février 2013 - 07:46 .
No they didn't. Quiet integration is all well and good, but visibility is an important component as well, and you're vastly underestimating the networking power of bigots. Regardless, no societal change has ever come about of being entirely well-behaved.Let me clue you in to a fact of life. If you want change, you do it gradually. The people who marched down the street screaming, "We're HERE! We're QUEER!! Get USED TO IT!!!" did more to set back the acceptance of homosexuality then any bigot.
Um, yes. Because that is how everything gets done. Every advancement carries that risk.Wolfva2 wrote...
I didn't say it hasn't been done before was a good reason not to do things. What an asinine remark! If that was the case, then they wouldn't have added SS relationships in DA and ME2! D'UH. I said they DIDN"T KNOW IF IT WOULD BE ACCEPTED. So, in your world, it makes great sense for a company to take a great risk in doing something no one else has done.
Translation: "Strawman, strawman, strawman, offensive homosexual stereotyping, strawman."ME 1 should have had Shepard in an N7 ball gag and backless chaps perhaps? Instead of the SSV Normandy it would have been the SSV Pink Flamingo. ALL relations would have been same sex. The game, of course, would have tanked. As would Bioware. Instead, they decided to play it safe, to slowly introduce certain previously taboo features into the game. As they were accepted, they expanded the scope, and still are.
Do you seriously believe that civil rights advancements just happen automatically?Let me clue you in to a fact of life. If you want change, you do it gradually. The people who marched down the street screaming, "We're HERE! We're QUEER!! Get USED TO IT!!!" did more to set back the acceptance of homosexuality then any bigot. On the other hand, people like Ellen Degeneris, who somewhat quietly came out and lived her life as a lesbian woman without bashing people over the head? She's done more to advance the acceptance of homosexuality.
Well, right now, next to you, Bioware looks like a chapter of PFLAG. Equating increased homosexual representation with increased "flamboyancy", not to mention your other comments, completely undermine any point you might think you had.Bioware is taking it slow and easy. You'd rather they go hard and fast. Ok, that's your opinion. You can refuse to buy their games because they haven't gone far enough fast enough for your liking. You can complain here that they aren't doing enough. Me? I'll sit back and point out that AT LEAST THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING! As opposed to the rest of the gaming countries which aren't doing anything. I kinda sorta think that SUPPORTING THEM in their effort would go a wee bit farther then refusing to support them because they aren't flamboyant enough.
The fact that bigots post on this forum is not news to me.Frankly, if you read the comments in this thread, you might see there isn't exacly universal acceptance of homosexuality even in this day and age. Slow and easy is the right approach.
Rawgrim wrote...
People being able to shapeshift and do magic is part of the lore of the game. Ergo its not unrealistic in Thedas. Everyone being bisexual is not part of the lore of the gameworld (yet), so a bunch of them just happening to run into eachother, and all of them just happen to be very much into the PC is abit unrealistic.
Wolfva2 wrote...
Let me clue you in to a fact of life. If you want change, you do it gradually. The people who marched down the street screaming, "We're HERE! We're QUEER!! Get USED TO IT!!!" did more to set back the acceptance of homosexuality then any bigot. On the other hand, people like Ellen Degeneris, who somewhat quietly came out and lived her life as a lesbian woman without bashing people over the head? She's done more to advance the acceptance of homosexuality.
Modifié par Soundsystem, 15 février 2013 - 09:45 .
Guest_RainbowPuppy_*
Wolfva2 wrote...
I didn't say it hasn't been done before was a good reason not to do things. What an asinine remark! If that was the case, then they wouldn't have added SS relationships in DA and ME2! D'UH. I said they DIDN"T KNOW IF IT WOULD BE ACCEPTED. So, in your world, it makes great sense for a company to take a great risk in doing something no one else has done.
ME 1 should have had Shepard in an N7 ball gag and backless chaps perhaps? Instead of the SSV Normandy it would have been the SSV Pink Flamingo. ALL relations would have been same sex. The game, of course, would have tanked. As would Bioware. Instead, they decided to play it safe, to slowly introduce certain previously taboo features into the game. As they were accepted, they expanded the scope, and still are.
Let me clue you in to a fact of life. If you want change, you do it gradually.
Modifié par RainbowPuppy, 15 février 2013 - 11:04 .
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Xilizhra wrote...
Why does anything in DA2 need to be solved? And, quite frankly, they can deal with it. If I can do so for numerous heterosexual flirtations with minimal impact, they can do so on their end.
Battlebloodmage wrote...
I think if the game is good, people will buy it. Skyrim has "bisexuality" in it, and it sold extremely well. DAO had it as well, even though they don't have the homosexual LIs (Isabela and Anders) initiate the move but still.
SgtElias wrote...
And it wouldn't bother you if a male character made "leading" statements (to use your word) toward your male PC? Or, I suppose, if a female character did the same?
I suppose what I'm getting at is that if some characters can't be overly flirtatious, then none of them should, gay or straight.
And if that's something you're for, then fair enough. I liked that our companions in DA2 expressed an interest in the PC (a lot, actually), but can agree to disagree.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Plaintiff wrote...
...and minor content for people who might be interested in pursuing a lesbian relationship.
No one has to experience any single romance.That's a fair point of view. But I don't think you can argue for more of something, while simultaneously arguing that everyone must experience it. Be it either side.
He brought it on himself. His post was a veritable finger magnet.And, unrelated to that ^ post, I have to say, I'm seeing a lot of finger-pointing here that only cripples any points that are being made.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Xilizhra wrote...
No one has to experience any single romance.
He brought it on himself. His post was a veritable finger magnet.
SgtElias wrote...
Alistair mentions being raised to treat WOMEN with respect
has nothing to do with his sexuality. At all. To me, anyway. You can replace the word "women" with "mother" or "parents." I guess I just don't see it.
Modifié par ejoslin, 15 février 2013 - 02:56 .
They don't need to experience it any more in DA2 than in DAO. Of course, people hated Zevran too, but again, my sympathies are minimal for anyone who can't maneuver through a few lines of dialogue without going nuts on the forums. The only real problem is when you're forced to initiate things, like with Jacob in ME2.True. But they do have to experience the flirting, possibly increased by that petitioned inclusion.
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