152 réponses à ce sujet

[Robhuzz]

Because the marketing teams had already made a big deal out of 'taking earth back'.

It would be too obvious even for EA to ignore that part...

[Atekimagus]

Kabooooom wrote...

One race is turned into a sovereign class reaper per cycle, on average. The place the reaper is made is apparently the Citadel. The collector base served as a surrogate because of extenuating circumstances. Humans were chosen as the race that gets this esteemed honor. Go us.

This is all explained in-game, by the way.

Only one? You sure about that? I always assumed that they harvest all advanced life and make reapers of them. Why waste all the other perfectly good advanced candidates?

Also, Turians, Asari and Salarians would probably be far more deserving than us, heck at this point they were on the citadel for what, a thousand years? Fought the rachni wars and krogan rebellions etc. And we humans are there for 30 odd years? We are the fricking new kids on the block. (Which to me, was always part of the charm of the ME universe......that it does NOT absolutely revolve around us, that we have to prove something......alas....marketing and mainstreaming happened.....)

[Ithurael]

BeastSaver wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Why didn't they just take the citadel at the onset of ME3? and shut down the relay network.?

If I enable headcanon mode I would say it is because the alliance fleet is engaging Cerberus HQ making the citadel an easy target? But then again...the reapers are extremely powerful and could have easily just smashed through any citadel defense force.

What good did build up the Citadel Defense Force even do? And how do they even play a part in how the crucible fires?

They couldn't take the Citadel at the onset of ME3 because as soon as they were seen in-system the Citadel could be closed. Once closed it is impregnable. And the only way to control the relays is with the controls on the Citadel. They only take control of the Citadel with the help of TIM.

I'm hoping the next DLC will address the results of the Citadel Defense Force and show how pockets of Citadel citizens escape/survive.

Has anyone looked back when crossing the bridge to the central room? There are rivers of goo flowing like waterfalls. I'm assuming its the "essense" of humans being processed.

Am I the only one who noticed that the citadel was closing on it's own at the end of the control ending?

The prothean sabotage only affected the keepers ability to receive a signal from soveriegn and/or their ability to trigger the Citadel mass relay. Post sabotage they only respond to the citadel...which is the catalyst...which is the reaper overmind.

but...I suppose...with enough headcanon I can make it work

[humes spork]

Atekimagus wrote...

Only one? You sure about that? I always assumed that they harvest all advanced life and make reapers of them. Why waste all the other perfectly good advanced candidates?

Codex: the Reapers/Reaper Variants. Get reading, boyo.

And, why yes I've been on these forums harping about the fallacy of suggestion and the potential for anything to be an unreliable narrator, including the codex itself which has been shown to have (deliberately, on the part of the devs) faulty information, such as the ME1 rachni entry. That doesn't abdicate your responsibility to be well-versed on what extant lore there is, reliable or not, before you gripe about it.

Modifié par humes spork, 14 février 2013 - 09:35 .

[Atekimagus]

humes spork wrote...

Atekimagus wrote...

Only one? You sure about that? I always assumed that they harvest all advanced life and make reapers of them. Why waste all the other perfectly good advanced candidates?

Codex: the Reapers/Reaper Variants. Get reading, boyo.

And, why yes I've been on these forums harping about the fallacy of suggestion and the potential for anything to be an unreliable narrator, including the codex itself which has been shown to have (deliberately, on the part of the devs) faulty information, such as the ME1 rachni entry. That doesn't abdicate your responsibility to be well-versed on what extant lore there is, reliable or not, before you gripe about it.

Lol, first I was just asking a question. Second, the question is very well open to discussion. All the codex entry says is:

"Experts believe the Reapers harvest a single species of organics during each cycle of extinction to create these massive ships."

To me that sound like a single species is used to create one reaper, aka don't mix and match. But it doesn't preclude them building an asari-reaper, a turian-reaper etc..

Heck, even the cataclyst flat out states that every advanced life they destroy is preserved in reaper form, and I guess he knows more about it than those "experts".

Point is, it is enough of an unknown to talk about it, no reason to get dickish.<_<

[dragonslaya]

the best part though is they gather to guard the citadel, but they only leave 1 reaper to guard the door.

DOH!

[KiwiQuiche]

Because humans are speshul.

[Col.Aurion]

Cuz art, that's why

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Cerbrus operative wrote...

I am trying to find at least one reason on why the reapers took The Citadel to Earth of all places in the galaxy but I can't. it's completely contrived. Why didn't they take it to Thessia for example?, it was closer to The Citadel space and fully taken by the reapers?

The Citadel is a reaper factory? It's where they make the reaper of the chosen species. That's the only thing I can think of. We didn't see it because it would have been ME2 again.

[CynicalShep]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Because humans are speshul.

[Sajuro]

If the allied forces were gonna attack, take something that they needed so we couldn't just use hit and run tactics since like the codex says combat is over as soon as one side goes "kthxbye" and ftls out of there. We couldn't break off from an assault on earth if it went south now since we needed to get the crucible to the citadel, which the Reapers had well defended

[Slashice]

The thing of how they moved the Citadel bugs me more than the place they moved to. The Keepers control the Citadel but they signal were sabotaged by the Protheans. And if they were able to control it and regain full access why didn't they shut down the whole relay network like they did in the previous cycles?

Ah well, it's art...it has nothing to do with ME1's and ME2's lore...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They towed the damned thing through the relays.

[Mcfly616]

"because Art...."




How original lol

[humes spork]

Atekimagus wrote...

Lol, first I was just asking a question.

Let's be careful with "just asking questions", shall we?

Second, the question is very well open to discussion.

Why yes, yes it is. The codex is strangely quiet on whether each "chosen" race is harvested into more than one capital ship, given sufficient population. But, that's not the point you originally raise -- that was what happens to the species not chosen to become capital ships? Which, from the same codex entry,

"Research suggests destroyers are created from those species that are not harvested to make capital ships."

[Argentoid]

themikefest wrote...

Possibly to make a human reaper.

I wonder if the reapers moved the Citadel to the Prothean homeworld in the previous cycle?

Doubtful. The Reapers were never able to make a Prothean-Reaper. 

[Argentoid]

1) They moved it there because it was easier to harvest their favourite species (humans). It's Reaper controlled space.

2) The Reapers were somewhat "losing", no matter your EMS. Shepard was always a step ahead. So that's why they moved to speed up the harvest.

3) It's a game.

Modifié par Argentoid, 15 février 2013 - 02:42 .

[Atekimagus]

humes spork wrote...

Atekimagus wrote...

Lol, first I was just asking a question.

Let's be careful with "just asking questions", shall we?

Why? Am I missing something? (Darn...two questions...)

humes spork wrote...
Why yes, yes it is. The codex is strangely quiet on whether each "chosen" race is harvested into more than one capital ship, given sufficient population. But, that's not the point you originally raise -- that was what happens to the species not chosen to become capital ships? Which, from the same codex entry,

"Research suggests destroyers are created from those species that are not harvested to make capital ships."

Hm...I see what you are getting at. Well from that point of view, I admit it makes sense to move the citadel to earth.

To be honest though, the game doesn't do a very good job then to bring this rather important point across that humans are THAT special to reapers, as the ONLY choosen race to be preserved in reaper form. Didn't they also start harvesting on all the other planets they attacked?

I assumed they made a human reaper in ME2 since it was the most convenient option for them and attacked earth since it was geographical the nearest to their point of entry after they went trough batarian space. Never once did I have the feeling that "humans" are something "special" to the reapers.

And the codex entries are vague enough that I always thought that each single race is preserved into reaperform with the excess population turned into destroyers. Not that there is a strict distinction.

If what you say is true however this is an INCREDIBLY wasteful modus operandi. Considering how relativly easy a sovereign class reaper is destroyed, if they REALLY build only ONE reaper per cycle......by now they would have long gone extinct. So surley this cannot be the case.

Modifié par Atekimagus, 15 février 2013 - 04:24 .

[CronoDragoon]

Atekimagus wrote...

If what you say is true however this is an INCREDIBLY wasteful modus operandi. Considering how relativly easy a sovereign class reaper is destroyed, if they REALLY build only ONE reaper per cycle......by now they would have long gone extinct. So surley this cannot be the case.

Arguably it takes a lot of time and "material" to build a Sovereign class Reaper. Moreover, all the cycles before this got roflstomped because of the relay shutdown and the utter lack of coordination between galactic races. It's possible that it was a very rare event in previous cycles that a Sovereign-class Reaper was destroyed.

[knightnblu]

Cerbrus operative wrote...

I am trying to find at least one reason on why the reapers took The Citadel to Earth of all places in the galaxy but I can't. it's completely contrived. Why didn't they take it to Thessia for example?, it was closer to The Citadel space and fully taken by the reapers?

Not really. Earth was heavily invested because the Reapers wanted to take out humanity fast. Therefore, they invested Earth with a heavy Reaper presence. Their presence was so heavy in fact, that by the time Shepard returns to Earth the human species is teetering on extinction. Another reason was that Harbinger was present in system. He is the de facto leader of the Reapers and the most powerful one. Call in a few extra resources and you have Sol sewn up.
 
Moving the Citadel to Asari or Turian homeworld or any other location would not be as secure. I think that you should re-examine your arguments pretext and go more from a "if the reapers had the Citadel why didn't they just shut down the mass relays" perspective. That would have stopped the counterattack dead in its tracks.

[TurianRebel212]

Commander Shepard is a human.
Harbinger is leading the siege of Earth.
Harbinger is 'interested' in shepard.
The goal of every cycles harvest is to create the perfect reaper.
Humanity has been chosen to be the core component of that reaper.

Who is the avatar of humanity?

Who is building alliances to bring all the galaxies resources and races to one place?


Who is the only organic that can activate the crucible?


Earth is only important because Shepard is important.


'Hold onto your saves, forever'. More is planned. Maybe not in ME3 but in the future. Shepards not finished yet.

[humes spork]

Atekimagus wrote...

Hm...I see what you are getting at. Well from that point of view, I admit it makes sense to move the citadel to earth.

That's not a "point of view", that's what the codex actually says.

To be honest though, the game doesn't do a very good job then to bring this rather important point across that humans are THAT special to reapers, as the ONLY choosen race to be preserved in reaper form.

That's where the narrative of ME2 hammers home -- that humans are special to Reapers, other races are deficient in some way or another, and for the purposes of creating Reapers. ME3's place is to refine that narrative, which it does, and answers the question of what happens to other races which unless you've forgotten was asked as early as ME2 was released.

As to how good of a job it does, I suppose that depends heavily on one's own opinions of narrative, drama, the importance of subtext and the level of activity and critical thought on the audience's part is desirable in the audience. I've always been an extremely active, critical, and detail-oriented audience member, and I found it just fine. The information is hardly sine qua non for a continued narrative, but still present for audience-members who desire that secondary (or deeper) level of detail. Honestly, if all this information were simply doled out, I'd feel as if my intelligence as an audience member were being insulted and that the game was, in fact, merely pandering to the lowest common denominator (who, mind you, generally doesn't care about the narrative to that level of detail in the first place).

Didn't they also start harvesting on all the other planets they attacked?

Yes, and the reason as to why is already answered in context. All those cannibals you kill came from somewhere, for example.

I assumed they made a human reaper in ME2 since it was the most convenient option for them and attacked earth since it was geographical the nearest to their point of entry after they went trough batarian space. Never once did I have the feeling that "humans" are something "special" to the reapers.

The former of that wasn't in the context of ME2's central narrative itself, but Arrival. The second was pretty much the entire point of the human-reaper.

And the codex entries are vague enough that I always thought that each single race is preserved into reaperform with the excess population turned into destroyers. Not that there is a strict distinction.

What you and I both quoted was verbatim from the codex. I don't see how that's vague even by the greatest stretch of the imagination. It is in-universe supposition (i.e. is hardly infallible and absolute) the Reapers select one species to turn into Sovereign-class ships. The others are turned into destroyers and ground forces.

That's not a statement about how many Sovereign-class ships are made each cycle. That's a statement on how many species are turned into Sovereign-class ships each cycle. Those are distinct things; it is entirely possible -- and non-contradictory to that statement -- more than one Sovereign-class ship is made each cycle (given the chose race has a sufficient population), or "leftovers" from the chosen species are turned into destroyers. It may even be the case that statement is incorrect altogether -- remember, it is disclaimed as being an assumption made in-universe -- and more than one species is turned into a Sovereign-class ship.

Hell, if more than one Sovereign-class ship would be made from humanity (which remember is not contradictory to the proffered lore on the topic) it in that light makes more sense to move the Citadel to Earth, since economy of scale is invoked not only in the number of humans required to make a Reaper but also in the number of Reapers made altogether. Remember also, that nothing in the lore precludes the Reapers from moving the Citadel to Palaven, Thessia, or elsewhere had they succeeded in harvesting Earth -- it just happens to be the first, and only, place we see it moved in the context of ME3's narrative.

[Atekimagus]

humes spork wrote...

Yes, and the reason as to why is already answered in context. All those cannibals you kill came from somewhere, for example.

So? They also use humans for 08/15 husks, again nothing special.

humes spork wrote...
The former of that wasn't in the context of ME2's central narrative itself, but Arrival. The second was pretty much the entire point of the human-reaper.

The point of the human reaper was never stated, we can only draw the logical conclusion that he was their failsafe in case sovereign screws up. Now humans fitted their needs best at the moment, but to draw the conclusion that we are something "special".........well, I am certain you could view it that way.....but then you also could not.

humes spork wrote...
What you and I both quoted was verbatim from the codex. I don't see how that's vague even by the greatest stretch of the imagination. It is in-universe supposition (i.e. is hardly infallible and absolute) the Reapers select one species to turn into Sovereign-class ships. The others are turned into destroyers and ground forces.

Would be interesting as to how they would arrive at that conclusion. Now I played no DLCs for ME3, so WERE there even other advanced species in the last cycle? Seems the only one "worthy" of destruction were the protheans in the first place.

humes spork wrote...
That's not a statement about how many Sovereign-class ships are made each cycle. That's a statement on how many species are turned into Sovereign-class ships each cycle. Those are distinct things; it is entirely possible -- and non-contradictory to that statement -- more than one Sovereign-class ship is made each cycle (given the chose race has a sufficient population), or "leftovers" from the chosen species are turned into destroyers. It may even be the case that statement is incorrect altogether -- remember, it is disclaimed as being an assumption made in-universe -- and more than one species is turned into a Sovereign-class ship.

Of course. It's just imho the evidence points more towards the reapers harvesting everyone and preserving them in reaper form, with humans nothing special.

Let's see, humans became interesting a mere 30 years ago......considering that sovereign spent already decades to figure out how to start the recent harvest that cuts it mightily close imho for them to be of any interest whatsoever. Now if we could JUST have kept our hands from the charon relay for only about 35 years we could have avoided the whole mess altogether.

Also, "we are your salvation through destruction" sounds a bit hollow when for the majority of the galaxy it's just "we are your destruction through destruction".

Of course this is all just idle speculation,...still..Reapers only choosing one species each cycle and just killing the rest off......seems like a rather stupid idea, probably put only into the game to make us feel "special" or something.

humes spork wrote...
Hell, if more than one Sovereign-class ship would be made from humanity (which remember is not contradictory to the proffered lore on the topic) it in that light makes more sense to move the Citadel to Earth, since economy of scale is invoked not only in the number of humans required to make a Reaper but also in the number of Reapers made altogether. Remember also, that nothing in the lore precludes the Reapers from moving the Citadel to Palaven, Thessia, or elsewhere had they succeeded in harvesting Earth -- it just happens to be the first, and only, place we see it moved in the context of ME3's narrative.

Well it makes certainly sense if we assume they actually "need" the citadel as sort of reaper-space-dock, which we don't really know. The ingame reasons for that move are just that they want to prevent us using the crucible with it, nothing more.

Honestly, I like the idea of the citadel being a reaper-spacedock, it makes far more sense than the ingame-reason we got.

Modifié par Atekimagus, 15 février 2013 - 08:37 .

[L_B_123]

Te protheon flashback showed collectors, does that mean protheons weren't made into reapers? Humans never became a reaper pawn like brutes etc

[Atekimagus]

L_B_123 wrote...

Te protheon flashback showed collectors, does that mean protheons weren't made into reapers? Humans never became a reaper pawn like brutes etc

Husks?