313 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

For me, Thane's death scene at the hospital hit me hard because I made a connection and great friendship with him throughout ME2. Even though I don't like Legion in ME3 (I don't like what Bioware did to the Geth's arc), his death (for whatever reason it happened) still got me really sad and that's because I remember what a compelling character he was for me, back in ME2.

Thessia? What connection do I have - just because I've met a few asari along the way? That's great, they also held back one of the most important puzzles to this war. Now to say, if I witnessed Samara passing away, that would of crushed me - that why her daughter scene in ME3 and wanting to commit suicide is hard for me to play.

[kyles3]

1337b0r0m1r wrote...

Mass Effect just has a story, a certain kind of story, and if you want to play this story, you have to accept some assumptions. Like that you actually care.

Or that Shepard would have anything to do with Cerberus after seeing what they got up to in the first game. I find that assumption far harder to accept than anything in ME3, but nevertheless I did. And I was rewarded with a damned fine experience.

Modifié par kyles3, 14 février 2013 - 02:37 .

[EnvyTB075]

spirosz wrote...

Yes, why should it matter to you if my Shepard wouldn't be upset about Thessia?  I do care, but if you RP a certain Shepard, that say, isn't too fond of Asari or aliens in general, I'm assuming he/she would brush it off.

Why do I even play at all...

I'm sorry, I didn't know I was playing your game.

+1

[Mouton_Alpha]

I didn't care about the kid.

I didn't care about Thessia, mostly thanks to overdone Liara and Shepard reactions.

I cared about Earth a little, I liked the architecture.

I did care about Palaven much more. Seeing it burning from the moon... was much more powerful than tears.

[Darth_Trethon]

BioWare just said "abandon ship" as the ME franchise sank.

[fainmaca]

I've said it before elsewhere: why should I bother caring about all of these things when the Shepard is doing enough caring and moping for the both of us?

[CynicalShep]

I think my Shepard is an alcoholic. He probably drinks while I sleep.

[o Ventus]

kyles3 wrote...

Not necessarily

Yes necessarily. You can customize his or her face, background, and personality type. The blank slate effect from ME1 and 2 served to further accentuate the personal customization of Shepard. Shepard also has no backstory other than the service history and background. Shepard isn't supposed to be a "character" in the strict sense of acting and thinking in a predetermined manner. Shepard exists for the player to immerse themselves in. Again, the RP in RPG.

[wright1978]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

I definitely think they tried too hard. There are ways to be subtle about this sort of thing, and this was in no way to be considered subtle. The dream sequences were basically Bioware spray painting on a big piece of plywood, and holding it up which reads

"This is deep and sad!"

The only part in the game that hit me emotionally was Mordin's sacrifice and the peace between the Quarians and the Geth. Those two things were executed very well. So there is good writing to be had in this game. It was just few and far between, unlike the past 2 games.

Yeah then they whacked the player over the head with the piece of plywood repeatedly. Deeply disappointing.

[wright1978]

kyles3 wrote...

1337b0r0m1r wrote...

Mass Effect just has a story, a certain kind of story, and if you want to play this story, you have to accept some assumptions. Like that you actually care.

Or that Shepard would have anything to do with Cerberus after seeing what they got up to in the first game. I find that assumption far harder to accept than anything in ME3, but nevertheless I did. And I was rewarded with a damned fine experience.

The story imperative of working with cerberus in ME2 or the Alliance in ME3 i can accept. However In ME2 you could reflect whether you were happy to be where you were, whereas in ME3 there is no corresponding ability to reflect. That's just one area of roleplaying agency that was stripped out in favour of atrocious generic auto characterisation in ME3.

[kyles3]

o Ventus wrote...


Yes necessarily. You can customize his or her face, background, and personality type. The blank slate effect from ME1 and 2 served to further accentuate the personal customization of Shepard. Shepard also has no backstory other than the service history and background. Shepard isn't supposed to be a "character" in the strict sense of acting and thinking in a predetermined manner. Shepard exists for the player to immerse themselves in. Again, the RP in RPG.

Shepard was never a blank slate to me. If you think Shepard is a blank slate, that's cool, but I've never been able to wrap my mind around the concept. Even in games with silent protagonists I always think of them as a character someone else created and wrote for. 

[XqctaX]

i think the spoonfed "you must feel sad" without a emotional payoff at the end
ruined the hole journey or "game"

i play games to have fun and feel good about whatever.
not to be constantly dragged down in saddness.

[GreyLycanTrope]

spirosz wrote...

Postman778 wrote...

I cannot connect to my Shepard.

And this a huge issue for me as well.  

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Seriously, in a psycological level you can't say your Shepard won't have those dreams. Realisticly you can control what you dream about, just how you react to them.

Then it's up to the narrative to reinforce that to the player. The fact that Shepard is feeling bad while I feel disinterested is a great reason to dislike these scenes. If they ruin your immersion this much, they're counter-productive. The writer of the dreams wrote cheques the game couldn't cash.

1. Any psycological state can't be control by any person. You're basicly say bw should give you ptsd....Which they can't.
2. In roleplaying terms the dream is just an encounter. It no differnthen when Bulder's gate 2 and Dragon age had the dream for their main characters.

[JedTed]

The over-all story didn't feel overbearingly sad, there are lots of bright spots that fill you with hope. However knowing how it all ends really makes it hard to go through the game again(i still haven't finished a 2nd full playthrough).

The only part i felt was forced is the cheesy dream sequences of Shepard running through the forest. That they made them even LONGER by making you run super slow makes feel even more forced, i always played my Shepard as an optimist so those sequences are really out-of-place for him.

[1337b0r0m1r]

spirosz wrote...

Yes, why should it matter to you if my Shepard wouldn't be upset about Thessia?  I do care, but if you RP a certain Shepard, that say, isn't too fond of Asari or aliens in general, I'm assuming he/she would brush it off.

Why do I even play at all...

I'm sorry, I didn't know I was playing your game.

Well, as I said, you just have to accept some things in order to enjoy the story. Sure, if you're bend on playing a Shepard who dislikes aliens, by all means, go ahead. But given the narrative of the game, what the story is all about, you just might not be doing yourself a great service. That is not to say that it wouldn't have been nice if the game was more accomodating to different RP styles, of course it would, no argument here.
And it would have been, to my mind, at least equally nice if what personality every Shepard has in the game (or is supposed to have) would have been portrayed a bit better -  less the gung-ho army grunt with bland one-liners and inappropriate jokes, more actually inspiring leader and skilled diplomat.
This is actually one of my greatest grievances I had with the game.

[adayaday]

1337b0r0m1r wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Yes, why should it matter to you if my Shepard wouldn't be upset about Thessia?  I do care, but if you RP a certain Shepard, that say, isn't too fond of Asari or aliens in general, I'm assuming he/she would brush it off.

Why do I even play at all...

I'm sorry, I didn't know I was playing your game.

Well, as I said, you just have to accept some things in order to enjoy the story. Sure, if you're bend on playing a Shepard who dislikes aliens, by all means, go ahead. But given the narrative of the game, what the story is all about, you just might not be doing yourself a great service. That is not to say that it wouldn't have been nice if the game was more accomodating to different RP styles, of course it would, no argument here.
And it would have been, to my mind, at least equally nice if what personality every Shepard has in the game (or is supposed to have) would have been portrayed a bit better -  less the gung-ho army grunt with bland one-liners and inappropriate jokes, more actually inspiring leader and skilled diplomat.
This is actually one of my greatest grievances I had with the game.

Funny thing the first game allowed you to be raciest,whice as the series progressed was droped with no explantion from the narrative.
In other words anyone who played any Shepard besides the base canon shepard got screwed

[samgurl775]

I felt like it was handled pretty well for the most part, there were just some REALLY bad disconnects between what "Shepard" felt versus what I felt. Like my Shepard would have been devastated after Thane's and Mordin's death, but he has pretty much a non-reaction in game. And on the other side, I couldn't care less about that little kid, but Shepard was constantly moping about him (the worst is when you're blind sided with a response about him when you're talking to Garrus). Forced emotions were a huge issue with ME3 though.

[Atekimagus]

samgurl775 wrote...

I felt like it was handled pretty well for the most part, there were just some REALLY bad disconnects between what "Shepard" felt versus what I felt. Like my Shepard would have been devastated after Thane's and Mordin's death, but he has pretty much a non-reaction in game. And on the other side, I couldn't care less about that little kid, but Shepard was constantly moping about him (the worst is when you're blind sided with a response about him when you're talking to Garrus). Forced emotions were a huge issue with ME3 though.

I completely agree. Mordins death was bittersweat. Thane, though I didn't like him that much, hit me hard and was followed up by someone casually mentioning that Kelly was executed......all that in a short space, was my emotional lowpoint, yet Shepard was more or less ok with it.

Thessia on the other hand......I just didn't feel it. The little kid? Tragic for about two seconds.....but having nightmares about it when friends I actually knew drop like flies left and right? Nah, didn't make sense. Not even being a little upset about the death of my former feeder of fish? Very cold. (Also, poor Kelly never got her name on the memorial wall that poor kid.....what has she done to deserve this? )

[TheRealJayDee]

kyles3 wrote...

Shepard was never a blank slate to me.

Of course he wasn't. But we've been given options to control and customize Shepard to a certain degree in the first games, and thus had the ability to create a variety of quite different Shepards. In ME3 some of these options were taken away for reasons unknown, and some of the previously created Shepards suddenly suffered from drastic changes to their personalities. My second favourite Shep ended up being basically KIA for me - there just wasn't enough left of him to be worth playing. That's not cool.

[1337b0r0m1r]

adayaday wrote...


Funny thing the first game allowed you to be raciest,whice as the series progressed was droped with no explantion from the narrative.
In other words anyone who played any Shepard besides the base canon shepard got screwed

Sorry, I didn't know that. I guess BioWare decided that it didn't fit into their bigger picture, although I don't suppose it would have been much work to properly implement it. A number of additional dialogue option and some additional voice-over would have gone a long way, I guess.

[Uncle Jo]

<-------- This is the last time we should have seen or heard about the brat.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 14 février 2013 - 09:08 .

[Fnork]

Way overboard. The sacrifice bonanza got outright annoying by the time I got to Thessia. "Ah, commando's. Maybe I can actually save this lot ... Aaaaand they're dead. Dammit, I should've known."

[EnvyTB075]

kyles3 wrote...

Shepard was never a blank slate to me. If you think Shepard is a blank slate, that's cool, but I've never been able to wrap my mind around the concept. Even in games with silent protagonists I always think of them as a character someone else created and wrote for. 

The difference is there aren't many games where you get to choose the characters background, their accomplishments, their favoured military prowess (i honestly couldn't put it any better), how they interact with other characters, whether or not they're sympathetic to the Krogans plight, whether or not they agree with Ashley in her belief in god. The character is not static and hence can't be treated as such, otherwise you're just telling your playerbase that their character is invalid which is what they essentially did. This then begs the question of why they bothered to let us make those choices in the first place, especially since they were making an RPG, not a FPS or a Platformer.

A silent protagonist such as Gordon Freeman is a static character. The player has no say in his background or his look, he merely exists and you experience Half-Life through Valves eyes, not your own. Whether you like it or not, Shepard was a canvas for the player to impose their own ethics and personality upon, and many of us take it further into pure headcanon. You're allowed to play the game with a Shepard that is purely BioWares creation, and thats perfectly fine, but don't try and postur that just because thats one way of playing the game it should be the only way of playing the game.