313 réponses à ce sujet

[CynicalShep]

I can't skip dialogue for I'm a hopeless completionist. Tevos' only saving grace is that I find her physically attractive (I know, I know). Makes me want to choke the hologram a little less.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

More like the "tried very hard to be sad hammer" we keep getting told how sad and depressing the setting is but it only felt that way on occasion, to me anyways.

Case and point Thessia.

It was not a "tried very hard" with people we know dieing left and right. Look a the citadel in the refuge hub and say"TRIED TO BE VERY SAD."

[Steelcan]

CynicalShep wrote...

I can't skip dialogue for I'm a hopeless completionist. Tevos' only saving grace is that I find her physically attractive (I know, I know). Makes me want to choke the hologram a little less.

. I wanted to whip out my pistol and start shooting........

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

More like the "tried very hard to be sad hammer" we keep getting told how sad and depressing the setting is but it only felt that way on occasion, to me anyways.

Case and point Thessia.

It was not a "tried very hard" with people we know dieing left and right. Look a the citadel in the refuge hub and say"TRIED TO BE VERY SAD."

That would be the 'on occasion' part.

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I can't skip dialogue for I'm a hopeless completionist. Tevos' only saving grace is that I find her physically attractive (I know, I know). Makes me want to choke the hologram a little less.

. I wanted to whip out my pistol and start shooting........

Liara could do it for you. She likes to hold TIM's image at gunpoint for extended periods of time.

[CynicalShep]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I can't skip dialogue for I'm a hopeless completionist. Tevos' only saving grace is that I find her physically attractive (I know, I know). Makes me want to choke the hologram a little less.

. I wanted to whip out my pistol and start shooting........

Liara could do it for you. She likes to hold TIM's image at gunpoint for extended periods of time.

I think I saw her throwing darts at a picture of Javik

Modifié par CynicalShep, 14 février 2013 - 01:47 .

[Wayning_Star]

Not as sad as that fan who shot the catalyst, but missed the deputies...

[EnvyTB075]

Greylycantrope wrote...

More like the "tried very hard to be sad hammer" we keep getting told how sad and depressing the setting is but it only felt that way on occasion, to me anyways.

Yep. The only two deaths in the game that would have upset my shepard (hence, upset me) were Mordin and Tarquin. Thats it.

Hardly the super sad game people like to claim it is. The plot was simply poorly written and designed.

[dreman9999]

LTKerr wrote...

It's too much manipulative: kids being killed, sad piano music, nightmares, traumatized Shepard... I love dark atmospheres (Deus Ex, Witcher or Bioshock) but ME3 felt... too much forced. Actually I almost felt insulted. As I read somewhere in these forums, the game is a huge "this is a child. He's dead. Feel sad. I SAID FEEL SAD!!!"

Most people who say this miss everything else.

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I can't skip dialogue for I'm a hopeless completionist. Tevos' only saving grace is that I find her physically attractive (I know, I know). Makes me want to choke the hologram a little less.

. I wanted to whip out my pistol and start shooting........

Liara could do it for you. She likes to hold TIM's image at gunpoint for extended periods of time.

. "Show yourself, I promise I won't miss"

<_<  Yeah, TIM is going to be hiding behind a pew in the middle of a war zone.

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...

LTKerr wrote...

It's too much manipulative: kids being killed, sad piano music, nightmares, traumatized Shepard... I love dark atmospheres (Deus Ex, Witcher or Bioshock) but ME3 felt... too much forced. Actually I almost felt insulted. As I read somewhere in these forums, the game is a huge "this is a child. He's dead. Feel sad. I SAID FEEL SAD!!!"

Most people who say this miss everything else.

Is your point that we shouldn't criticise the parts where it doesn't work because there are parts that it does? Or that we should average it out instead of focusing on improving the negative?

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

More like the "tried very hard to be sad hammer" we keep getting told how sad and depressing the setting is but it only felt that way on occasion, to me anyways.

Case and point Thessia.

It was not a "tried very hard" with people we know dieing left and right. Look a the citadel in the refuge hub and say"TRIED TO BE VERY SAD."

That would be the 'on occasion' part.

That was not just an on occasion. We also had the ptsd arari commando.Many  many moments in the refuge hub. The death of 3 characters. The battle of palvin's moon. The final battle of the cerbeus bomb battle. The mission with Samara's daughters. The first grond battle on rannoch. The korgan poets last message. The cerberus horison mission and so on.

And so far when I read this topic I see "lol, bw tring tomake cry with a kids death, lol". The problem here that is not even a faction to the sad thing that are in this game.

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

LTKerr wrote...

It's too much manipulative: kids being killed, sad piano music, nightmares, traumatized Shepard... I love dark atmospheres (Deus Ex, Witcher or Bioshock) but ME3 felt... too much forced. Actually I almost felt insulted. As I read somewhere in these forums, the game is a huge "this is a child. He's dead. Feel sad. I SAID FEEL SAD!!!"

Most people who say this miss everything else.

Is your point that we shouldn't criticise the parts where it doesn't work because there are parts that it does? Or that we should average it out instead of focusing on improving the negative?

I have not problem withyou criticising what does not work. I have a problem with you guys acting that the flaws isthe only thing there.
Sure, you can say the kids death wasmiss handle...But what about every other sad thing in the game? It was not just "lol, this kid is dead. Feel sad, lol."

[EnvyTB075]

dreman9999 wrote...

Sure, you can say the kids death wasmiss handle...But what about every other sad thing in the game? It was not just "lol, this kid is dead. Feel sad, lol."

Yes it was, the kid served no other purpose.

Indy_S wrote...

Is your point that
we shouldn't criticise the parts where it doesn't work because there
are parts that it does? Or that we should average it out instead of
focusing on improving the negative?

No, its just Dreman being Dreman. I.e a ****head.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 14 février 2013 - 02:09 .

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...
Is your point that we shouldn't criticise the parts where it doesn't work because there are parts that it does? Or that we should average it out instead of focusing on improving the negative?

I have not problem withyou criticising what does not work. I have a problem with you guys acting that the flaws isthe only thing there.
Sure, you can say the kids death wasmiss handle...But what about every other sad thing in the game? It was not just "lol, this kid is dead. Feel sad, lol."

Praise isn't as constructive as you think. You have to go into the why of things working or not working. We have gone into why the kid doesn't work. We have gone into why things like Thessia or Legion's death doesn't work. You're right that we haven't gone into why things like the refugee camp or the PTSD Asari does work. But to be honest, you haven't either.

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...
Is your point that we shouldn't criticise the parts where it doesn't work because there are parts that it does? Or that we should average it out instead of focusing on improving the negative?

I have not problem withyou criticising what does not work. I have a problem with you guys acting that the flaws isthe only thing there.
Sure, you can say the kids death wasmiss handle...But what about every other sad thing in the game? It was not just "lol, this kid is dead. Feel sad, lol."

Praise isn't as constructive as you think. You have to go into the why of things working or not working. We have gone into why the kid doesn't work. We have gone into why things like Thessia or Legion's death doesn't work. You're right that we haven't gone into why things like the refugee camp or the PTSD Asari does work. But to be honest, you haven't either.

How does thessia or Legion's death not work?
And how does the ptsd asari or the refugee camp don't work?The ptsd asari is a story about a person trapped in an ugly moment.
And the refugee camp shows how despeate the war was getting.

[dreman9999]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Sure, you can say the kids death wasmiss handle...But what about every other sad thing in the game? It was not just "lol, this kid is dead. Feel sad, lol."

Yes it was, the kid served no other purpose.

Indy_S wrote...

Is your point that
we shouldn't criticise the parts where it doesn't work because there
are parts that it does? Or that we should average it out instead of
focusing on improving the negative?

No, its just Dreman being Dreman. I.e a ****head.

You missed my point entirely. I never said the child was never meant to be sad.(Or it was not badly done) I said with are way more sad moment then just that kid. 

[DeinonSlayer]

The thing is, the emotion players experienced when they told Ereba about Charr was real. It was ours, whatever that might have been. After the kid's death, after Thessia, after Tuchanka ("I'll sleep when I'm dead..." another spacebar moment), we were being told how to feel instead of experiencing the emotion ourselves.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 14 février 2013 - 02:26 .

[PainCakesx]

 I thought the tone throughout most of the game was fine. I like a dark story, so long as it's done well. However, a dark story needs something to counteract that. 

A super happy-go-lucky story tends to be boring - there needs to be a good conflict for there to be a compelling story. However, a dark and grim story needs there to be a catharsis - something to build to at an end. The audience needs to feel like the emotional roller coaster ride of a story is going to lead somewhere satisfying - somewhere to make it all worth it. Without this kind of pay off, the story just becomes depressing and a downer.

I wasn't expecting a super triumphent Disney ending, but I *was* expecting a catharsis at the end - a light at the end of the tunnel. I had just watched entire homeworlds in smoldering flames, close allies and friends die, my own mentor die to my own gun, and billions of people of all species bite the dust. I was beaten over the head for 35 hours with the idea of galactic apocalypse and a general feeling of dread and helplessness. And I was expecting at least *one* ending where I would be able to defy the odds and do the impossible - to reign triumphent. It wouldn't be a Disney ending because too much was lost - but it would be a sweet victory that would offset those losses in a bittersweet manner. 

We didn't get that. What we got was a hollow victory that hardly felt like one and a total and utter lack of emotional catharsis. There was no light at the end of that tunnel, but more darkness. And, as a result, I felt depressed and overall in a negative state of mind rather than a positive one. This is probably the number one reason why I haven't gone back to replay ME3 despite having beaten ME1 and ME2 several times since my first ME3 playthrough and is one of the reasons why I haven't purchased a single DLC for ME3. As much as I want to replay it, I dread going slogging through the game only to walk away feeling depressed and hollow.

So, in many respects, I think they did go overboard. The game needed a dark tone, but a dark story needs something to balance it out, or it's just depressing with no payoff. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 14 février 2013 - 02:23 .

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Praise isn't as constructive as you think. You have to go into the why of things working or not working. We have gone into why the kid doesn't work. We have gone into why things like Thessia or Legion's death doesn't work. You're right that we haven't gone into why things like the refugee camp or the PTSD Asari does work. But to be honest, you haven't either.

How does thessia or Legion's death not work?
And how does the ptsd asari or the refugee camp don't work?The ptsd asari is a story about a person trapped in an ugly moment.
And the refugee camp shows how despeate the war was getting.

There is next-to-no pathos established with Thessia. Legion acts out-of-character in order to die. I never said the Asari or refugee camp don't work. As for the rest, welcome to the conversation.

[spirosz]

Thessia doesn't work because of the Joker conflict afterwards and Shepard's little breakdown. What. Where's my Shepard Biowar pls?

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

How does thessia or Legion's death not work?

Thessia doesn't work because its based on the premise that Shepard failed and Kai Leng beat them. In the actual game, Shepard can stomp Kai Leng into the ground, by the magical power of cutscenes saves Leng. It's forcing he player to lose and forcing the planet to burn, for no good reason other than to contrive emotion and pad gameplay time by forcing Sanctuary on you. The forced apologies by Shepard while talking to the councilor only serve to hammer this in.

Legion's death doesn't work because it-

A. Contradicts how the geth operate, and
B. Shows that Bioware doesn't know how technology works

Even within the context of the story, there is no reason whatsoever for Legion to die. In fact, Legion shouldn't have a singular identity.

Modifié par o Ventus, 14 février 2013 - 02:27 .

[dreman9999]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The thing is, the emotion players experienced when they told Ereba about Charr was real. After the kid's death, after Thessia, after Tuchanka ("I'll sleep when I'm dead..." another spacebar moment), we were being told how to feel instead of experiencing the emotion ourselves.

You can say this if the game and main character directly explains what emotions they are feeling. It soundsmore that you assuming that the game is forcing what emotion is felt.

Roloplaing wise, as a person who is tryingto savethe galexy and the last peace need for that was taken from under you, why wouldn't yoube upset?
It's just like the locker scene when the normady was locked down in ME1.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

You can say this if the game and main character directly explains what emotions they are feeling. It soundsmore that you assuming that the game is forcing what emotion is felt.

Roloplaing wise, as a person who is tryingto savethe galexy and the last peace need for that was taken from under you, why wouldn't yoube upset?
It's just like the locker scene when the normady was locked down in ME1.

Shepard is a vessel for the player. Making them feel something the player doesn't (especially when it contradicts Shepard's established general personality) is a problem.

Characterizing Shepard (beyond the most basic, general archetypes) was one of the bigger mistakes of ME3, because it harms role playing. You know, the RP in RPG.

[Aaleel]

Some of it was good, other parts felt forced.

I actually liked the end of Thessia, the reapers coming down in the distance with the Asari on the radio I thought was one of the most poignant moments of the game. Shepard hadn't really failed to that degree before so I liked that scene.

Now the manner in which the failure was brought about was my problem.