313 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

dreman9999 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

KBomb wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Right because when Mordin died the last peice need to end the war slipped throught Shepard hands?

Right, that did not happen. You missing the fact here that the case with the after math with Mordins Death or when Shepard was feeling upset there was not an impending knowing of doom hanging over Shepard head.

Shepard at a moment having a way to fight back ageint the reapers. Why would he/she not feel upset?

 
Your are projecting your Shepard's reactions into what every "Shepard" should be feeling.

My Shepard would have been devastated over the loss of Mordin and would have felt like telling Joker it wasn't the time to be funny. Whereas she would have seen Joker cracking about Thessia being taken as "It's going to be okay, take a breath and regroup."

Some other "Shepards" feel the same, some feel like you, some feel completely different. Which is the point. You're stuck in the response of, "How dare you make a joke like this when we lost Thessia!" or "How dare you make a joke at a time like this!" Nothing in between. Either way, your Shepard is taking Thessia harder than anything thus far, which is perhaps the way Bioware planned it because they thought everyone would feel like you--but they don't

There were many times like that in the game. If you romanced Thane, you leave him there like it's no big deal, back to business. Shepard dreams about the little boy as symbolism for fear, guilt, loss--when most people don't seem to care about him, so that symbolism is lost. Just like the reason for Shepard's feelings over Thessia. It is suppose to represent Shepard's sense of failure, instead it feels as though we are suppose to be devastated because of something else. Which doesn't represent how a lot of people wanted to feel.

At one point in the narrative, two times the population of New York City can die as a direct result of Shepard's decision not to inform them about Legion's upload, and the Geth's willingness to cease fire - two things they have no other way of knowing about. One of the options Shepard can choose in explaining why they died is because "they were stupid." The crew is mournful, but Shepard's reaction is... lackluster, to say the least. Alternately, Shepard can deny the Geth are alive and shoot Legion three times in the face, showing even less remorse about the act than Tali does.

This same Shepard can also murder Mordin and sabotage the Genophage cure, lie to everyone on the ship for most of the game about the former, lie to Wrex's face about the latter, and then lie to C-Sec when asked why Wrex tried to kill him.

And yet, Shepards of all stripes get emotional and blame themselves, not for the loss of the beacon, but for the fall of Thessia. That's basically the only genocide in the entire narrative that Shepard DOESN'T instigate.

There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon.

You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...
So your saying the plot never establied that it protects from bullets, explosioms , biotics and tech power?

The fact is the fight shows his shields as fallible while in the cutscene, they are invincible.

[Ticonderoga117]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon.

You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.

Not too mention "Sad Shep" as he longingly stares at the comm like a whipped dog.

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
So your saying the plot never establied that it protects from bullets, explosioms , biotics and tech power?

The fact is the fight shows his shields as fallible while in the cutscene, they are invincible.

It only show that it he uses it too much it looses power and it can recharge. It never shows that his bubble sheild does not have high invonribility.

[EnvyTB075]

Guys, just remember, this is Dreman after all, stupidity is to be expected.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

He can be optimistic. It does not mean he is not upset. The player is still force to be upset regurdless to how they resolve it. It still is the same thing.

Actually being opemistic mean precisely  that Shep's not upset, he might think the current situation is ridiculous but he's not snapping at the crew or feeling sorry for himself, he certainly can but doesn't have to. In ME3 we can only feel sad and angry we can no choice but to snap at the crew and feel sorry for ourselves.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 14 février 2013 - 05:21 .

[dreman9999]

[quote]DeinonSlayer wrote...


There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon.[/quote]You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.
[/quote]Again, it never is stated that Shepardinheritly feels sorry Thessia fell.

[DeinonSlayer]

dreman9999 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...


There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon. You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.

Again, it never is stated that Shepard inheritly feels sorry Thessia fell.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

He can be optimistic. It does not mean he is not upset. The player is still force to be upset regurdless to how they resolve it. It still is the same thing.

Actually being opemistic mean precisely  that Shep's not upset, he might think the current situation is ridiculous but he's not snapping at the crew or feeling sorry for himself, he certainly can but doesn't have to. In ME3 we can only feel sad and angry we can no choice but to snap at the crew and feel sorry for ourselves.

No it does not. Be optimistic is a way to positively vent your feelings. It does not mean you're not upset. It just mean you're not going  your feeling to be upset drag you down. Sorry but Shepard is clearly upset at the start of the scene.

[dreman9999]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...


There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon. You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.

Again, it never is stated that Shepard inheritly feels sorry Thessia fell.

I just rewatche the scene...http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=608s

[Cobretti ftw]

I was watching an interview with Casy Hudson talking about one of his favorite movies: Gladiator.
He spoke that we have to analyze what "victory" means to the main character, and for amximus on the gladiator movie, vengenace followed by death was his prize.

Gladiator is one of my top 5 movies, braveheart too. And both of them share that similarity, the main character died.

BUT, i think that this kind of ending was not meant to be the only possible outcome in a series like ME. Especially ME3. Mostly because the game is tense and dark. People played a sad and dark game like that, so they wante to be rewarded by it. Its only natural. It may work good on a movie or in some of the possible outcomes in a game like that, But for all of them? No. THe game is immersive, it was designed to be imersive. THey suceeded in that, but they failed to comprehend that people wanted to be rewarded in cases like that. Its like " i worked so hard, i deserve something better!". When people fell like they are part of the story, they obviously react differently from people that are just watching it from an "outsidee" point of view.

And another prblem is the lack of clusre. It SSTILL lacks closer even after the EC.

I think an epilogue like theone on Dragon age: orgins would be perfect.

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon.

You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.

Not too mention "Sad Shep" as he longingly stares at the comm like a whipped dog.

Because someone who just had the last peice need to stop the reapers slip out of his/her hand who be happy about it.

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 février 2013 - 05:28 .

[KBomb]

dreman9999 wrote...

No it does not. Be optimistic is a way to positively vent your feelings. It does not mean you're not upset. It just mean you're not going  your feeling to be upset drag you down. Sorry but Shepard is clearly upset at the start of the scene.

It shows Shepard is frustrated, but it gives you different avenues as to how to channel that frustration. You can be optimistic, you can be diligent or you can just lash out angrily. Thessia gives you none of those options. Shepard is just the star of a pity party.

[GreyLycanTrope]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...


There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon. You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.

Again, it never is stated that Shepard inheritly feels sorry Thessia fell.

We're entering Blue Protoss territory here.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...


There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon. You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.

Again, it never is stated that Shepard inheritly feels sorry Thessia fell.

We're entering Blue Protoss territory here.

Please state the moment and time Shepard spacifily states he/she is upset inheritly over thelostof thessia  in this vid...http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=608s

[DeinonSlayer]

dreman9999 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...


There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon. You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.

Again, it never is stated that Shepard inheritly feels sorry Thessia fell.

*image snip*

I just rewatche the scene...http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=608s

So did I.

T: "What was the situation on Thessia?"
S: "Deteriorating fast. The Reapers are there in strength."
T: "Then you'll excuse me. There are preparations to make. Continuity of civilization to consider. I never thought this day would come."
S: "None of us did. (really, Shepard?) I'm..."
T: *disconnects*
S: "...sorry."

Even the guy doing the commentary on that video calls Shepard's apology "gay."

[dreman9999]

KBomb wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No it does not. Be optimistic is a way to positively vent your feelings. It does not mean you're not upset. It just mean you're not going  your feeling to be upset drag you down. Sorry but Shepard is clearly upset at the start of the scene.

It shows Shepard is frustrated, but it gives you different avenues as to how to channel that frustration. You can be optimistic, you can be diligent or you can just lash out angrily. Thessia gives you none of those options. Shepard is just the star of a pity party.

Ok, I'll give you that. But still this is the end of the galexy as we knowit with no second chances.

[EnvyTB075]

Greylycantrope wrote...

We're entering Blue Protoss territory here.

I've always imagined Dreman to be BP's long lost brother from another mother.


edit: Good lord, that Shep + that scene is pathetically hilarious. Even better it doesn't support Dremans point at all, rather disproves it.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 14 février 2013 - 05:37 .

[Cobretti ftw]

ANd they managed the "darkness" of the game very badly.

When it should have worked to imerse the player into the story even more, it did exaclty the contrary.
Things like the dream sequences for example. I was able to hear the voice of all dead companions. Especially those that i didnt care about. THis all contributed to take me away from the game

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

Please state the moment and time Shepard spacifily states he/she is upset inheritly over thelostof thessia  in this vid...http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=608s

At 14:22

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 14 février 2013 - 05:35 .

[dreman9999]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...


There is nothing in the Thessia mission that forcesthe player to be upset over Thessia. The only thing theplayer os forced to be upset about is losing the beacon. You're forced to apologize to Tevos, followed shortly by "Thessia fell, and that's on me." Shepard can then immediately go downstairs and insist it isn't Liara's fault.

Again, it never is stated that Shepard inheritly feels sorry Thessia fell.

*image snip*

I just rewatche the scene...http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=608s

So did I.

T: "What was the situation on Thessia?"
S: "Deteriorating fast. The Reapers are there in strength."
T: "Then you'll excuse me. There are preparations to make. Continuity of civilization to consider. I never thought this day would come."
S: "None of us did. (really, Shepard?) I'm..."
T: *disconnects*
S: "...sorry."

Even the guy doing the commentary on that video calls Shepard's apology "gay."

But th aplogy is not stated to be spacifily for thessia. It can be seen for not getting the last peice nned for the crusible...Which Shepard states later to Anderson in the same vid.

[DeinonSlayer]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Please state the moment and time Shepard spacifily states he/she is upset inheritly over thelostof thessia  in this vid...http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=608s

At 14:22

I intentionally duck that conversation for the rest of the game.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Please state the moment and time Shepard spacifily states he/she is upset inheritly over thelostof thessia  in this vid...http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=608s

At 14:22

And that was about not getting the last peice need for the crucible...And a pragon responce.

[EnvyTB075]

dreman9999 wrote...

But th aplogy is not stated to be spacifily for thessia. It can be seen for not getting the last peice nned for the crusible...Which Shepard states later to Anderson in the same vid.

Why the **** else would Shepard be apologising to the ASARI (read, species of intelligent life whom originate from the planet called THESSIA) COUNCILER you moron.

Heres another quote

"Losing Thessia wasn't in the playbook"

Yeah, **** off.

dreman9999 wrote...
And that was about not getting the last peice need for the crucible...And a pragon responce.

Prove it, otherwise its headcanon.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 14 février 2013 - 05:40 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

"But watching Thessia fall...and knowing it was my responsibility."

No mention of the Catalyst in that sentance.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 14 février 2013 - 05:40 .