313 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But th aplogy is not stated to be spacifily for thessia. It can be seen for not getting the last peice nned for the crusible...Which Shepard states later to Anderson in the same vid.

Why the **** else would Shepard be apologising to the ASARI (read, species of intelligent life whom originate from the planet called THESSIA) COUNCILER you moron.

Heres another quote

"Losing Thessia wasn't in the playbook"

Yeah, **** off.

dreman9999 wrote...

At 14:22

And that was about not getting the last peice need for the crucible...And a pragon responce.

Prove it, otherwise its headcanon.
[/quote1.Wher does itliteraly say he is apolizing forthe fall of Thessia?
2."Losing Thessia wasn't in the playbook"  
Does not mean he is sad over the lose over it.

3.You're saying that a peron who is trying to save the galexy and the last peice need to do so slips out of his hand would not be upset... added... http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=714s

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 février 2013 - 05:48 .

[Indy_S]

Trying to get this thread back on track, how would you go about reconnecting the player and character in these scenes?

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

"But watching Thessia fall...and knowing it was my responsibility."

No mention of the Catalyst in that sentance.

"But we'll lose the war" 

From that very scene from Sheps mouth. 

So thessia falling means losing the war?

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Wher does itliteraly say he is apolizing forthe fall of Thessia?
2."Losing Thessia wasn't in the playbook"  
Does not mean he is sad over the lose over it.

3.You're saying that a peron who is trying to ssave the galexy and the lastpeice need to do so slips out of his hand would not be upset... added... http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=714s

Okay, on the third point: Who is refuting that? You keep bringing it up as if it proves your point. Everybody else is arguing that the player isn't involved in the scene. They don't care that Shepard is sad. They're not sad.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I'd reinstate the neutral option, employ it during the scene with Liara say something like "I felt the same way when we lost Earth, Thessia's not the only world that fell it won't be the last if we don't focus." Basically I would like something that shows Shep acting like an adult, this isn't the first battle we've lost in the War it likely won't be the last, we can try to focus on what's still ahead of us or we can mop. I prefer the former.

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Wher does itliteraly say he is apolizing forthe fall of Thessia?
2."Losing Thessia wasn't in the playbook"  
Does not mean he is sad over the lose over it.

3.You're saying that a peron who is trying to ssave the galexy and the lastpeice need to do so slips out of his hand would not be upset... added... http://www.youtube.c...jy9FFcec#t=714s

Okay, on the third point: Who is refuting that? You keep bringing it up as if it proves your point. Everybody else is arguing that the player isn't involved in the scene. They don't care that Shepard is sad. They're not sad.

I'm not arguing about that. I understand the player can be no be sad about that scene. But a person who is in a momet like that, where the verything need to save everyone slip up of his hands, would still be upset .
Roleplaying wise, the person still would be upset.

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 février 2013 - 05:52 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...
"But we'll lose the war" 

From that very scene from Sheps mouth. 

So thessia falling means losing the war?

Never occured to you that Shepard is upset about losing Thessia and the data did it? People can have more than one emotion at a time.

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...
I'm not arguing about that. I understand the player can be no be sad about that scene. But a person who is in a momet like that, where the verything need to save everyone slip up of his hands, would still be upset .
Roleplaying wise, the person still would be upset.

The player has to add a lot to connect to the scene. It's more than just roleplaying, it's correcting for the writer's error. Pathos should be established regardless of the level of abstraction between the character and the player. Pathos isn't established here. Add to the fact that your ability to express your frustration/guilt is forced to be expressed along a single line (grief), it is quite simple to be disconnected

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
"But we'll lose the war" 

From that very scene from Sheps mouth. 

So thessia falling means losing the war?

Never occured to you that Shepard is upset about losing Thessia and the data did it? People can have more than one emotion at a time.

Yes, Shepard can be upset for both. I did not say he could not. I'm saying Shepard is not force to be upset for both.

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I'm not arguing about that. I understand the player can be no be sad about that scene. But a person who is in a momet like that, where the verything need to save everyone slip up of his hands, would still be upset .
Roleplaying wise, the person still would be upset.

The player has to add a lot to connect to the scene. It's more than just roleplaying, it's correcting for the writer's error. Pathos should be established regardless of the level of abstraction between the character and the player. Pathos isn't established here. Add to the fact that your ability to express your frustration/guilt is forced to be expressed along a single line (grief), it is quite simple to be disconnected

So the issue is that it's not flexible. I'm arguing ageist that. I'm saying no matter the ground, if roleplaying the person would be upset. You're you want more then one way to show you're upset. That I can understand.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, Shepard can be upset for both. I did not say he could not. I'm saying Shepard is not force to be upset for both.

And you're wrong he is forced. Quite clearly.

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...
So the issue is that it's not flexible. I'm arguing ageist that. I'm saying no matter the ground, if roleplaying the person would be upset. You're you want more then one way to show you're upset. That I can understand.

So why do you think this scene is so reviled while the similar locker scene receives such praise?

[CynicalShep]

Indy_S wrote...

Trying to get this thread back on track, how would you go about reconnecting the player and character in these scenes?

Well, a complete remake of half of the cutscenes and a choice to either feel bad or be a blunt, heartless soldier. The lack of choice is the root of all evil here.

[DeinonSlayer]

CynicalShep wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Trying to get this thread back on track, how would you go about reconnecting the player and character in these scenes?

Well, a complete remake of half of the cutscenes and a choice to either feel bad or be a blunt, heartless soldier. The lack of choice is the root of all evil here.

(spoken in a cold, even tone)
"No. I'm not 'upset.' But I am going to cut him apart from the inside out the next time we meet."
(half of the crew shifts uneasily)

...not bad, but I'd have still liked the option to chew out Tevos.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 14 février 2013 - 06:09 .

[hiraeth]

CynicalShep wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Trying to get this thread back on track, how would you go about reconnecting the player and character in these scenes?

Well, a complete remake of half of the cutscenes and a choice to either feel bad or be a blunt, heartless soldier. The lack of choice is the root of all evil here.

i agree with the OP that a lot of the scenes felt.. overly sad. like i get that certain events will be depressing (e.g., mordin's death, fall of thessia, etc.), but i reached a point where even being in the normandy was a downer. i don't believe that every version of shepard would have felt the same depth of sadness...for example, my renegade shepard would have probably taken a more "f*ck it, let's kill those bastards!" approach and less of a "i don't know if i can take the pain much longer," but in all playthroughs it felt like the latter was canon. 

in terms of how to make it better, i agree with Indy_S...having more options to be like "i feel bad" vs. "screw it" would have made the plot flow more smoothly (in terms of customization). autodialogue doesn't help this. i felt that most of ME3 relied way too much on autodialogue. my renegade shepard was saying things that felt very out of character (i have a hypothesis that the autodialogue tended to favor paragon shepards), so that didn't help the overly-sad-but-deal-with-it problem. but yeah...in general less autodialogue would have helped this issue, i think.

[hiraeth]

LineHolder wrote...

I blame the Dark Knight and this new rabid insistence on forcing a dark and gritty vibe to a story even if it is not warranted. Or going overboard with it.

at least i felt "f*ck yeah!" at the end of the Dark Knight Rises instead of the "wtf just happened?" reaction i had at the end of ME3...

Modifié par MassEffectFShep, 14 février 2013 - 06:28 .

[CynicalShep]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Trying to get this thread back on track, how would you go about reconnecting the player and character in these scenes?

Well, a complete remake of half of the cutscenes and a choice to either feel bad or be a blunt, heartless soldier. The lack of choice is the root of all evil here.

(spoken in a cold, even tone)
"No. I'm not 'upset.' But I am going to cut him apart from the inside out the next time we meet."
(half of the crew shifts uneasily)

...not bad, but I'd have still liked the option to chew out Tevos.

I'd like the chance to eat her outright do many different things to her. 
On topic - especially if you say "Next time I see him - he dies" after the coup and then get defeated by lolcutscene.

[Barquiel]

I thought it was ok most of the time. ME3 Shepard felt certainly more alive to me, while he/she was nothing but an emotionless hollow shell throughout most of ME2.

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
So the issue is that it's not flexible. I'm arguing ageist that. I'm saying no matter the ground, if roleplaying the person would be upset. You're you want more then one way to show you're upset. That I can understand.

So why do you think this scene is so reviled while the similar locker scene receives such praise?

Becauseof whatI stated. The scene has more way to express or deal with Shepard being upset. Shepard still was upset, we just got a chance apply how he dealtwith the feelings.
Which goes back to my point, their is notproblem with the players character being force to be upset, theproblem isthelimitation of expressing and dealing with the emotion.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, Shepard can be upset for both. I did not say he could not. I'm saying Shepard is not force to be upset for both.

And you're wrong he is forced. Quite clearly.

Again, nothing is ever illustrated that he/she is inheritlyupset about both the fall of thessia and losing the beacon.

[Han Shot First]

The overall tone of the story was appropriate.

With the Reapers invading and destroying galactic civilization, snuffing out billions in the process, there could be no other tone besides dark or sad.

Barquiel wrote...

I thought it was ok most of the time. ME3 Shepard felt certainly more alive to me, while he/she was nothing but an emotionless hollow shell throughout most of ME2.

Also, this.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 14 février 2013 - 09:01 .

[Walsh1980]

The game definitely is missing a sense of triumph. At the end of part two, I was pretty blown away at how your decisions, the music, the dialouge, and the battles all came together, the suicide mission is going to be hard to top for a while I think.

Mass Effect 3's end gave no such feeling. I don't mind the grim atmosphere, or even the endings (anymore) really, I'm ok with depressing finales but it just leaves you feeling beaten rather than victorious. I can't shake the feeling that keeping it simple and just destroying the Reapers and having (and showing) Shepard live happily ever after, and dancing with the ewok... er Vorcha's would make me feel better not just for the trilogy, but the franchise's future. That's why I hope they do make the next game a continuation and show me that what I did as Shepard was worth it, I think it's the only way to make ME3's end work without completely scrapping it.

[wright1978]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You can say this if the game and main character directly explains what emotions they are feeling. It soundsmore that you assuming that the game is forcing what emotion is felt.

Roloplaing wise, as a person who is tryingto savethe galexy and the last peace need for that was taken from under you, why wouldn't yoube upset?
It's just like the locker scene when the normady was locked down in ME1.

Shepard is a vessel for the player. Making them feel something the player doesn't (especially when it contradicts Shepard's established general personality) is a problem.

Characterizing Shepard (beyond the most basic, general archetypes) was one of the bigger mistakes of ME3, because it harms role playing. You know, the RP in RPG.

Yep this