88 réponses à ce sujet

[Lazarus Magni]

Hi all,
I am having a hard time finding any information on this. Anyone know the major differences between these versions of CEP? The only things I can tell are some different mounts, and a few different creature models (like 20 or so)? Seems like there must be more to it than that for a completely different version... What am I missing?
Laz

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 16 février 2013 - 10:08 .

[Wensleydale]

There are new clothes too, and I think the palettes have been cleaned up and reorganised a bit so things are easier to find, (and some things that weren't showing up on the palette now do.) As far as I'm aware the difference isn't HUGE, but significant nevertheless.

[The Amethyst Dragon]

I think there's more doors and placebles, too. Oh, and a couple of scripted systems (I use a slightly modified form of their Sparky Spawner). And I think they (CEP) started experimenting with some PLT based creatures (such as beholders and dragons) with 2.4. It's been a long time since 2.4 came out, so I don't remember anything else in particular.

Oh, and the updater utility that came with 2.3 is no longer supported. The guy that programmed it moved onto other things. It only works with version 2.3...running it after updating to 2.4 will actually cause newer content to vanish as it's overwritten by older content.

Modifié par The Amethyst Dragon, 14 février 2013 - 05:44 .

[Master Jax]

You should take a look at the 2da's. New additions are labeled as I recall, like CEP 2.3 whereas older content isn't. Isn't there a changelog?

[Lazarus Magni]

Oh so a few more creatures, clothes, doors, and placeables? I am having a hard time seeing a reason to advocate toward updating our mod from 2.3 to 2.4 just for that. Especially considering making a server 2.4 means people with less can't log in, where as servers with 2.3, players with 2.4 or 2.3 can still log in.

I am pretty sure sparky and asis are available in 2.3. If not some previous dev added them to our mod, but I would doubt that.

Indeed the updater breaks 2.4. Pretty sad as that was quite a nice functionality.

The latest version doesn't seem to offer much beyond what 2.3 already offers...

P.S. No... there is no change log that I have found...

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 14 février 2013 - 06:34 .

[Tarot Redhand]

So what's the difference between 2.4 and 2.4a then?

TR

[The Amethyst Dragon]

2.4a is 2.4.

Version 2.5 is in the works.  Just haven't read of an update in a few months.

[Lazarus Magni]

*Jaw drops*

Last I saw on there, Barry said CEP was done, finished, finito. This is encouraging news indeed.

*Looks sheepish*

My apologies Barry.

*opens mouth, and proceeds to stick foot in*

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 14 février 2013 - 07:09 .

[Malagant]

Oh, Lazarus... it's only been eight months since the last CEP blow up. Shouldn't we hold off on any commentary about them for another four?

I always took it as the current CEP team had been sitting on the project for some time without much in the way of information on progress or updates, which is fairly par for the course, and thus felt a need to shove something out there with what amounts to a 3.3.5.

I am curious... why did the community expansion pack, get taken out of the hands of the community?

It didn't, it's just that (from my own observations of their comments and reactions from them both here and elsewhere) an excessive amount of elitist mentality has seemingly overridden any community cohesion with them at some point along the road.

Seems to me expressions of criticism, no matter how constructive, give rise to an awful lot of what internet aficionados refer to as butthurt. It doesn't look as if they take any criticism all that well and it usually is responded to with an exorbitant amount of vitrol.

Modifié par Malagant, 14 février 2013 - 06:42 .

[Malagant]

Lazarus Magni wrote...

Last I saw on there, Barry said CEP was done, finished, finito.

It's gone back and forth, but the most recent commentary I had seen was that they claim ownership of all within and thus when the current team is done then it will be done. Also, I recall it being said that there was [some list of five(?) things they wanted to get done] and anything outside of those [would be blown off].

My interpretations of their words (obviously), but seemingly upheld by the practice of ignoring any offers for help or contributions outside of that small list.

[3RavensMore]

*runs for cover* Tells me when shooting is over.

[NWN_baba yaga]

best advice is to not count on any update, news or feedback from the cep Team. To me the chance is at 0,01 % that there will be anything done. I mean... if you wait another year maybe someone of them remember that there was a project....

oh... one thing always works to get their attention... Claim ownership of the community stuff or just take over the project

Fact is they denied anyone trying to breath new life into it and rather see it die!!! CEP is the ghoul of all NWN projects

Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 14 février 2013 - 09:05 .

[Pstemarie]

To the best of my kinowledge, which is limited, the CEP Team is in flux. A few people have left, a few people have joined. It takes time to get new people up to speed and even more time to recover when members depart.

Remember, the CEP Team, like every other team out there, is a team of volunteers. We should be thankful for everything they've done and offer them encouragement rather than derision. Indeed, a little encouragement goes a long way to keeping the desire to create CC alive.

As we've said so often at Project Q (about our own package), "...the update will be done when its done." :innocent:

Modifié par Pstemarie, 14 février 2013 - 09:13 .

[3RavensMore]

Fact is, nothing drives people away from a community faster than to start hurling insults and bickering. Can we please let it go before even more people leave? Please? Seriously guys.

[Pstemarie]

Well said 3RavensMore.

[NWN_baba yaga]

we must have different memories from the past because i recall them saying that they are in charge about any decissions what is good for the community and what not in relevance to the CEP. But yes as you wish i can save my words for better things

But i must say again why do you think many CC guys offer their content for free to anyone to mod? I tell ya! because the person know that we are a small group left so if no ones takes on their projects no one will. But if you place your name over the project itself thats the result! And if anyone is "NOW" leaving because someone speaks out how it is then ...good bye i think. Nothing to care about if someone is so immature and i dont want to be friendly to people that "meep" imo just because they could possible leave...

hmm. i cant just stop here. MAybe i can explain why i feel like i do. When you compare this content creation or passion of creating things with a sport where fairplay should be natural and so the spirit of an open source community you may understand why i dont like them.

Note: i dont fell bad if they think the same about me... just for the record:D

another thing just popped up again... Anyone remember that strange female from them that was summoned by barry to come here, talk to us as if we were brats, treated us with suing soup and ownership and vanished back into the nine hells???

Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 14 février 2013 - 09:49 .

[T0r0]

Well in the spirit of helping out:



I'll delete it if they fix it.
Fix is on same page as my override.

Modifié par T0r0, 14 février 2013 - 09:50 .

[Pstemarie]

NWN_baba yaga wrote...

another thing just popped up again... Anyone remember that strange female from them that was summoned by barry to come here, talk to us as if we were brats, treated us with suing soup and ownership and vanished back into the nine hells???

Yeah that was rather...amusing. Maybe she got smacked with the EULA by BioWare. I can picture Bioware Legal with a giant rolled up copy of the EULA saying "NO!! Bad Succubus!! NO!"

Modifié par Pstemarie, 14 février 2013 - 10:03 .

[Lazarus Magni]

LOL, well I for one still hope that CEP can continue to evolve, and have community content contributed to it to live up to it's name.

Why CEP? Because it is very widely used, meaning it's easy for multiple servers to use it, with out cutting them selves off from a lot of players. It's too bad there can't be a collaborative effort between CEP and Project Q.

Oh and outstanding content is always a good thing too, not to mention I am a fan of community projects.

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 14 février 2013 - 10:33 .

[henesua]

Are you referring to Malishara?

Kalbaern attempted to get some movement on saving the CEP last yearish.

I still stand by everything I wrote in that thread, and it is one of the reasons why I proposed a new initiative in the community which I have Rolo dubbed Foundation.

It seems however that a need for CEP could vanish in the next couple months. I've caught word of some technical wizards working on autodownloaders for module dependencies. If this happens, we will no longer need to worry about what HAKs we use in our modules, as as far as players will be concerned it won't make any difference.

Modifié par henesua, 14 février 2013 - 10:36 .

[Tarot Redhand]

As a solo player mod creator I was so disappointed with both the humungous size of the later CEPs and their focus on multi-player that I refuse to allow them to use any of my stuff if they were crazy enough to think it any good. Add to that the structuring of the various haks in version 2 leaves me cold. With version 2 its a case of include most of it or don't use it at all. Anyway that's my little rant.

TR

[Shadooow]

Tarot Redhand wrote...

As a solo player mod creator I was so disappointed with both the humungous size of the later CEPs and their focus on multi-player that I refuse to allow them to use any of my stuff if they were crazy enough to think it any good. Add to that the structuring of the various haks in version 2 leaves me cold. With version 2 its a case of include most of it or don't use it at all. Anyway that's my little rant.

TR

the same here, though Im bulding multiplayer module, still I found that while the size of CEP2 is five times bigger than CEP1, there is not even twice much content I would used. Its maabye because Im bulding an action-related module, but current CEP is also bloated with numerous themes that are unlikely to combine and numerous copies of the same content just retextured (tilesets for example - this is what I dont like the most)

CEP 2.4 seems to robbed CCreaturePack as there are the unique models from there. Maybe I judge them unfairly but in past they were doing this without permission and I dont assume that CCP gave it to them.

And their attitude with a project consisting of the work of other peoples is what hurts most.

Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 15 février 2013 - 07:23 .

[Master Jax]

This insults thing baffles me... 0__0 I would like to think I check in often, and I don't remember ever reading insults or unfounded criticism in the forums... Maybe this was long before my time, or I check the "right" posts... In any case, if anyone is giving you a hard time, isn't it easier to ignore the comments? I would think supportive community members are a lot more than insulting ones...

[Lazarus Magni]

Ok... I am glad we can all agree, we all apparently wish CEP truly lived up to it's name, and was a community endevor.

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 15 février 2013 - 10:25 .

[The Amethyst Dragon]

ShaDoOoW wrote...

the same here, though Im bulding multiplayer module, still I found that while the size of CEP2 is five times bigger than CEP1, there is not even twice much content I would used. Its maabye because Im bulding an action-related module, but current CEP is also bloated with numerous themes that are unlikely to combine and numerous copies of the same content just retextured (tilesets for example - this is what I dont like the most)

CEP 2.4 seems to robbed CCreaturePack as there are the unique models from there. Maybe I judge them unfairly but in past they were doing this without permission and I dont assume that CCP gave it to them.

This turned into something longer than I intended, but here's some rambling thoughts from a certain dragon...

I think the CEP team's goal over many years has been to be as inclusive as possible when it came to combining Vault content. 
- Different themes?  Lots of stuff for multiple things, and players don't have to download another package if the builder uses CEP. 
- Models/creatures with multiple textures?  Some builders like them, and content creators made them. 
- Tilesets?  From what I've seen, they combined various tileset additions into single tilesets to make building easier for those that don't know how to merge things into tilesets themselves...I've checked out the CEP versions of some of the tilesets, and they're packed with features and groups, many of which I don't personally use, but they're there for others.

There's content I've made for my own haks that I haven't used yet, but it's there when I'm ready for the variety.  For example, I don't use all 112 of the new mythallar crystal placeables I made, which are in the CEP.  I doubt anybody else has use for all of them either, but the variety is there.

I know there's a lot of older content in CEP that could use improvement [not-so-subtle plug], but I know that Barry_1066 has been adamant about not breaking older modules since he took over (which was with version 2.1, if I recall correctly).

As far as the CCP, I do know that the CCP team gave the CEP team permission to include all of those models (I've browsed forums around NWN for a many a year).  I use modified versions of some of those creatures myself (retextured dragon turtle and dragonne come to mind), but there are still critters in there that have yet to be made/improved upon by the rest of the community.

I know they've also added some of their own work to the CEP and made changes/fixes to many models over the years.  That could be where the "possessive" vibe comes from.  Also, the "community" may be more an indication of what's been compiled inside rather than "who runs it".  I know it's a ton of work to get stuff from different content makers to work together, let alone do some fixes...part of the reason I don't really do collaboration work or have a team of builders for my PW.

I actually use both CEP and Project Q in my PW.  While not compatible out of the box (how could two such big projects spanning so many years of independant development end up compatible?), a little 2da merging (and possibly model/icon renaming) can go a long way.


So...

Yes, I think there's room for improvement when it comes to the CEP.  More frequent updates, maybe with a new updater program (their old one relied on the programmer staying part of the team, so they lost access to add more content when he left.  Newer content, perhaps.

Sure, CEP isn't being run how some would like, but that doesn't mean you can't make a new project that does much the same task but with different structure and non-CEP-exclusive content.  Hell, I'd even give permission for some of my content (the "publicly released" stuff) to be included in a new project...said project organizers would just have to ask (and I can be bribed with honest feedback and votes).

Just come up with a completely new name, so as
to not confuse players that would mistake the CEP with CEPX3 or whatever
if a server uses one or the other or both.  "Compilation Project 2013 (aka CP2013)"..."New Combo Package (NCP)"..."Prioritized Content Package (PCP)"....yeah, that last one's a joke.  Whatever.

And no...I am NOT volunteering to do any work on such a project.  I've got enough on my plate the way it is.

In the end, I just don't see the point of forum hostility.  Barry_1066 has told me (when I set up the new CEP forum for them when their previous one was shut down), that he doesn't bother visiting these forums, since these days any post he would make seems like it has a 99% chance to end up pretty much like this one has....a "simple question about CEP" thread turned "rant against CEP" thread.

Modifié par The Amethyst Dragon, 15 février 2013 - 09:05 .