1429 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulicus]

Yeah. Loghain started selling elves because he was desperate. It's not something he took pleasure in. Not that such excuses him, but it's a far cry from him being "evil".

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Taxes? You think he isn't already doing that?
Mining expeditions? Where and what? You htink he isn't already doing that?
They can't trade with Orzammar because of the succession crisis.

I was serious. Are you serious?

He could always make people pay for watching Miss Ferelden and FereldenTV, he could make you pay for his hard work as judge in your show, he could work in the Pearl (according to one of the many senseless polls here that would be a success, plenty of women consider him to be HOT), he could demand to get his pension NOW instead of later, he could make the nobles pay for every dumb sentence they say (they say so much dumb things that ALONE would make him Millionnaire), he could........

There are plenty of ways.

[SuperMaoriFulla]

Ulicus wrote...
Though I vaguely recall the oath Loghain swore to Maric regarding Ferelden's independence, Maric himself thought along these lines:

Maric: This isn't about putting the blood of Calenhad on the throne. This is about getting that Orlesian bastard off it. Because if he was a good King for Ferelden, none of this would matter. (My emphasis)

Maric is fighting for Ferelden's independence because it co-incides with making Ferelden a better place for its people. If Orlais were just and ruling Ferelden fairly, he wouldn't be leading rebel armies or anything like it. Cailan isn't intentionally betraying his father's principles, because he likely believes that whatever he's doing is for the good of Ferelden.

Whether he's right or wrong is a different question.

Marrying the Orlesian Empress could potentially bring peace between the two nations, and be good for Ferelden. Although I'm wondering why the Orlesian Empress didn't choose a young and beautiful Orlesian royal from her own family to tempt Cailan with? Marrying off the ruling families sons and daughters to other nations rulers seems like something the Orlesians would do if it meant they could gain a vassal state without having to wage a potentially costly military campaign.

[Tirigon]

Sabriana wrote...

@ Tirigon

True. That was my point. It's all about choices.

By the way, blood magic is forbidden and against the law in Ferelden. It matters little what excuse the malificar presents, the templars will run him/her through without batting an eye.

:devil:Hmmm, templars...

:devil:They taste GOOD if you shock them first and burn them afterwards...

The templars suck. I hate them since the very first time I met them.

[BSBNess]

What I find ironic is that Loghain was selling elves as slaves to stop the people of Ferelden becoming Orlesian's slaves.

[Tirigon]

SuperMaoriFulla wrote...

Marrying the Orlesian Empress could potentially bring peace between the two nations, and be good for Ferelden. Although I'm wondering why the Orlesian Empress didn't choose a young and beautiful Orlesian royal from her own family to tempt Cailan with? Marrying off the ruling families sons and daughters to other nations rulers seems like something the Orlesians would do if it meant they could gain a vassal state without having to wage a potentially costly military campaign.

Maybe they DIDN´T want to subjugate Ferelden? I mean, ok, they are French and all, but that doesn´t make them evil by nature. That´s only a prejudice. Some French people are quite ok.

[Woman Warden 118]

we can argue semantics all day, but in the end i will still know that if loghain truly thought that selling people into slavery was the best idea, he does not deserve life.

[Tirigon]

Woman Warden 118 wrote...

we can argue semantics all day, but in the end i will still know that if loghain truly thought that selling people into slavery was the best idea, he does not deserve life.

Tirigon approves + 42


Tirigon sees that this person is female and hands Woman Warden 118 a flower, together with the classical "Care to join me in my tent?" that worked so well usually....:devil:

[robertthebard]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I am a Qunari. I force my opinion upon others, if I truly believe I am right, and I think I am.

Besides, as a historian I always like a good argument, prepares me for what I am going to face further on.

So you're not a soldier, and have no concept of what combat is, but claim to have a better perspective than anyone else?  As a former soldier, I resent your implication, and reject your fallacies.  History is written by the victors.  You would put personal gain above the well being of your own family, sparing Vaughn for his crimes, despite the fact that you do not need his vote at the Landsmeet.  PC gets to say something to the effect of "Nobody's missed you" as they turn and leave his worthless ass in the cell when it's a non-City Elf play through, and they are right, nobody has missed him.  Killing him as a non-City Elf is far too merciful.  Much better to leave him in there to starve to death, or worse, if nobody finds him before Denerim is overrun.

Despite all of this, anyone that feels like they don't want Loghain have the option to kill him.  An option that I take or not, depending on how I want the country to be ruled.  In games where Alistair is a lump in my camp for 95% of the game, I'd as soon take Loghain.  However, if I want Alistair to rule, and to insure that he does not die in the battle, I can spare Loghain, and set Alistair up to rule, and either have Loghain kill the beastie, or do the deed myself.  I can, however, also kill Loghain, leave Alistair at the gate, and kill the beastie myself, and end up in the same boat, with nobody to rebuild the Wardens, too bad for them.

[Ulicus]

SuperMaoriFulla wrote...

Marrying the Orlesian Empress could potentially bring peace between the two nations, and be good for Ferelden. Although I'm wondering why the Orlesian Empress didn't choose a young and beautiful Orlesian royal from her own family to tempt Cailan with? Marrying off the ruling families sons and daughters to other nations rulers seems like something the Orlesians would do if it meant they could gain a vassal state without having to wage a potentially costly military campaign.

I think it comes down to OOU reasons: it's simply more dramatic and greater a 'betrayal' if Cailan is wooing the Orlesian Empress.
Even if they had to bend the timeline to make her suddenly be younger than Anora.

IU, though, it could simply be the case that Cailan and Celene see benefit in putting the blood of Calenhad on the throne of Orlais.

Modifié par Ulicus, 14 janvier 2010 - 08:41 .

[Woman Warden 118]

BSBNess wrote...

What I find ironic is that Loghain was selling elves as slaves to stop the people of Ferelden becoming Orlesian's slaves.

lolz ikr

[Woman Warden 118]

Tirigon wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Taxes? You think he isn't already doing that?
Mining expeditions? Where and what? You htink he isn't already doing that?
They can't trade with Orzammar because of the succession crisis.

I was serious. Are you serious?

He could always make people pay for watching Miss Ferelden and FereldenTV, he could make you pay for his hard work as judge in your show, he could work in the Pearl (according to one of the many senseless polls here that would be a success, plenty of women consider him to be HOT), he could demand to get his pension NOW instead of later, he could make the nobles pay for every dumb sentence they say (they say so much dumb things that ALONE would make him Millionnaire), he could........

There are plenty of ways.

Exactaly

[KnightofPhoenix]

Woman Warden 118 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Taxes? You think he isn't already doing that?
Mining expeditions? Where and what? You htink he isn't already doing that?
They can't trade with Orzammar because of the succession crisis.

I was serious. Are you serious?

He could always make people pay for watching Miss Ferelden and FereldenTV, he could make you pay for his hard work as judge in your show, he could work in the Pearl (according to one of the many senseless polls here that would be a success, plenty of women consider him to be HOT), he could demand to get his pension NOW instead of later, he could make the nobles pay for every dumb sentence they say (they say so much dumb things that ALONE would make him Millionnaire), he could........

There are plenty of ways.

Exactaly

If you are not willing to take this seriously and actually think about an alternative, then don't condemn Loghain for selling elves or claim that there were better ways.
Finacing a war is never easy. Especially not for a country like Ferelden.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 janvier 2010 - 08:44 .

[Ulicus]

Loghain clearly approached the issue of slavery from a very utilitarian angle.

[Woman Warden 118]

War bonds were quite effective in WW2. maybe those would have some effect if we dont sell them into servitude!

[KnightofPhoenix]

SuperMaoriFulla wrote...
Marrying the Orlesian Empress could potentially bring peace between the two nations, and be good for Ferelden. Although I'm wondering why the Orlesian Empress didn't choose a young and beautiful Orlesian royal from her own family to tempt Cailan with? Marrying off the ruling families sons and daughters to other nations rulers seems like something the Orlesians would do if it meant they could gain a vassal state without having to wage a potentially costly military campaign.

Active kings don't marry active queens and vice versa. They marry princes or princesses. That could bring peace. What Cailan is proposing is a merger of the two crowns and the two nations. And it doesn't take a genius to know that the styronger, richer nation (Orlais) will absorb the weaker nation (Ferelden). Add the fact that the empress is a political mastermind while Cailan is inept. He couldnt' handle Anora, you think he can handle Celene?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Woman Warden 118 wrote...

War bonds were quite effective in WW2. maybe those would have some effect if we dont sell them into servitude!

facepalm. Because in the middle ages, war bonds were very common.

[robertthebard]

We can also choose to ignore the fact that he's losing soldiers in his Civil War even though all he really had to do was leave Anora as the figurehead, and puppetmaster the whole thing as the General of the armies. If he'd approached things in that way, instead of poisoning Eamon to prevent any interference, a lot of people might have looked at him differently.

[Woman Warden 118]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Woman Warden 118 wrote...

War bonds were quite effective in WW2. maybe those would have some effect if we dont sell them into servitude!

facepalm. Because in the middle ages, war bonds were very common.

and in the middle ages magi were burned at the stake. i dont think Ferelden is your tipical middle age country
ferelden could have war bonds, how should we know?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Woman Warden 118 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Woman Warden 118 wrote...

War bonds were quite effective in WW2. maybe those would have some effect if we dont sell them into servitude!

facepalm. Because in the middle ages, war bonds were very common.

and in the middle ages magi were burned at the stake. i dont think Ferelden is your tipical middle age country
ferelden could have war bonds, how should we know?

I am sorry, but I can't take you seriously. Last time I checked, Ferelden didn't have a banking system, nor a national treasury run in a modern way. Bonds were born in the modern age, during the industrial revolution. War bonds were first used in WWI.
A medieval society does not have the prerequisites, nor the system to issue war bonds or any sorts of bonds.

Please, try to be more serious and thoughtful. Because I could always claim "Ferelden could have nuclear technology hidden underground, how should we know?"

[Woman Warden 118]

Tirigon wrote...

Woman Warden 118 wrote...

we can argue semantics all day, but in the end i will still know that if loghain truly thought that selling people into slavery was the best idea, he does not deserve life.

Tirigon approves + 42


Tirigon sees that this person is female and hands Woman Warden 118 a flower, together with the classical "Care to join me in my tent?" that worked so well usually....:devil:

lolz Woman Warden 118 approves+43 and ,emberresed, says thank you but im not sure how to respond to that...lolz

[Woman Warden 118]

while you have a point, is it anymore right than africa selling its POWs in the 1500s to people colonizing the new world. those actions had major reprocsions for many years in america. it even brought on a civil war, not much unlike ferelden already was!

[Sabriana]

As stated by D. Gaider, Loghain didn't poison Eamon with the intent to kill him. Just to incapacitate him, which, looking at RtO, might not have been such a bad idea. I'd have to play it see it clearer, but it is stated by the writer of the game that Eamon was never supposed to die.

The demon simply lied to the little boy (A lying demon? I know, shocking, but there you have it)

[AaronRiley08]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I can use the reason to spare Loghain, because I also am a general. Generals between themselves do not just kill each other for the crimes the other has committed, besides your hands have quite a great deal of blood on them anyway. Crime is crime, no matter against whom you do it and for what reason.

My point is that from a leading standpoint he is not guility of anything but failing to unite Fereldan under his rule. That is all that should matter to you, you are not a person hunting down lowly criminals on the street ( well you are but the main quest thing puts you in the position that you make choices at the highest level, and there you cannot allow yourself to think as a simple person )

Ya know..... you act like anyone in the military would spare loghain when infact the way i look at it is that loghain is my enemy through out the whole game so at the end i kill him there is no oh hes a general so his choices are justified seriously we handed sadam back to to be hung we didnt care that hey he was the president of iraq he ****ed with us so he ****ing died

by the way im a marine

[RangerSG]

Woman Warden 118 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Woman Warden 118 wrote...

War bonds were quite effective in WW2. maybe those would have some effect if we dont sell them into servitude!

facepalm. Because in the middle ages, war bonds were very common.

and in the middle ages magi were burned at the stake. i dont think Ferelden is your tipical middle age country
ferelden could have war bonds, how should we know?

Oh really? What happens to apostates? Besides, you're comparing apples to oranges. There's a big difference between a *slight* difference in policy and an advanced economic concept that would not have even fit in the mind of medeival economic thinking.