1429 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

Sabriana wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I was genuinly sad when this forced Alistair away from me, but in retrospect I had done what I thought best, with limited information. You are free to play however you like, but don't tell me why I play the way I do.

Same here, I even had persuaded him and Anora to marry, for the betterment of Fereldan, or so I thought.

I think this part is really important, because this is at the heart of why a lot of people choose to let Loghain live, even if they realized it was going to be trading Alistair for Loghain. It's not always just a choice between Alistair or Loghain, it's as much about the crown too. By the time I really knew I would loose Alistair if I let Loghain live, Alistair had already demanded to be handed the crown. I could have then decided to keep Alistair out of loyalty, or from a practical view decide that keeping Alistair who I knew reasonably well, would be better than betting on the relativly unknown factor Loghain. But that would also mean sacrificing the person I thought would do the best job on the throne for someone who up until then had not impressed me as a potential King. THAT is the heart of the matter for me, and a lot others who decided to go with Loghain I think.

It is in my case. My mage (1st play-through, completely unspoiled) was taken aback by Riordan's suggestion, but it gave her pause. He was the most experienced GW after all. She was utterly shocked about Alistair's outburst, and remembered his comments at Flemeth's hut, and Duncan's words at Ostagar.

Something was amiss to her then, and Alistair demanding to be crowned was in contradiction to what he said through a large part of the game. Namely, that he'd make a bad king, he didn't want to be King, etc.

Alistair also showed no leadership qualities, and  had the tendency to get upset if he didn't get his way, even though the way he wanted things were bad overall. His statement that he'd rather be a follower also popped up in her mind. That, coupled with the fact that Anora, who has a bad character, but is otherwise a beloved and capable leader, and has plenty experience in the political arena was the far better candiate between the two.

My mage decided that out of two bad choices (Anora/Alistair), she'd better go with less bad choice, namely Anora. It was somewhat moot to her anyway, because if the archdemon was successfull all of this would be moot anyway. So Loghain lived, and of course, later on it became clear to my mage why Riordan suggested Loghain, and why he didn't interfere further after Alistair's outburst.

I was very sad when I saw neither hide nor hair of Alistair in the final battle. I did understand his leaving the PC and her group, but I never expected not to see him in the thick of things when it really mattered, when his country needed him so desperately.

Alistair cares about Alistair.  This is obvious from Flemeth's hut after Ostagar on until the Landsmeet.  It's convenient for some to ignore the fact that Alistair is never King by himself.  Either the HN female is queen, ruling through him, or Anora is ruling, or Eamon is pulling his strings.  I can see myself sparing Loghain simply because it does ****** Alistair off.  Why not?  He's been pissing me off the whole game.

BTW, game mechanics always come into the argument at this juncture, since Alistair technically can't lead.  However, Sten can't lead either, and yet he will try.  Alistair's solution?  Throw a temper tantrum, and try to seize the crown.  If he was so confident about being King, why didn't he try to duel me for the right to decide Loghain's fate?  He knows he can't go against the Landsmeet, and I applaud Anora's actions, even if Alistair isn't slain outright.

[Zemore]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zemore wrote...
the elves were still free he TOOK thier freedom away Orlais TOOK Fereldens freedom away its the same damn thing ,it doesnt matter if they dident like the elves it doesnt change the parralels of what was done its one large e power assuming that they own a smaller weaker group.

A weak comparision. A country being invaded and robbed of its sovereignity and independence  is one thing. Weak elves being sold to slavery by the government in order to protect the kigndom is an entirely different thing all together.
It doesn't take a political scientist to see the difference.

He put the kingdom in the situation he cost more lives than anyone in the entire game via civil war slavery and not allowing Cailan to wait for Orleasian troops which Would have come and Cailan wouldve waitied for.
the slavery  wouldent save ferelden without the main char Ferelden would be a blighted carcass

so your justifying a futile action literally it wouldent have done anything but line Loghains corpse with some gold coin for the darkspawn to pilfer.
and Basically condoning Rascism as well as slavery doesnt do your point justice it just compounds how lidicrous it is.

robertthebard wrote...

Alistair cares about Alistair. 
This is obvious from Flemeth's hut after Ostagar on until the
Landsmeet.  It's convenient for some to ignore the fact that Alistair
is never King by himself.  Either the HN female is queen, ruling
through him, or Anora is ruling, or Eamon is pulling his strings.  I
can see myself sparing Loghain simply because it does ****** Alistair
off.  Why not?  He's been pissing me off the whole game.

BTW,
game mechanics always come into the argument at this juncture, since
Alistair technically can't lead.  However, Sten can't lead either, and
yet he will try.  Alistair's solution?  Throw a temper tantrum, and try
to seize the crown.  If he was so confident about being King, why
didn't he try to duel me for the right to decide Loghain's fate?  He
knows he can't go against the Landsmeet, and I applaud Anora's actions,
even if Alistair isn't slain outright.

Al is a man child he isnt capable of being independant its all due to his upbringing his mothers dead he never knew his father and eamon sent him to a bunch of preists where he pulled pranks and makes jokes.
He never had the chance to grow up Alistair is compassionate and caring he knows right from wrong but he forms a bond with Duncan and then Transfers the same opinion to the main char he does whatever u say no matter how evil you are Until loghain  because he cant forgive duncans death.

i agree with you but he isnt ALL for himself he does care about people but caring doesnt mean he has any real intitive for himself if anything i was more proud of him for finally standing up for himself by refusing to fight with loghain its the only time hes ever had a spine.

Modifié par Zemore, 15 janvier 2010 - 02:05 .

[Gimmemocha]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...He was doing it secretly.
And while the hypocritical nobility might dislike the idea, the fact that he is engaged in slavery does not necessarily result in the Landsmeet siding against Loghain. It's only one factor. Loghain can still gain the support of the Landsmeet even after they know what he is doing. So it's not a farcry from the acceptable.

Please note that I don't like Loghain, I do choose to kill him always (whether me doing it or Alistair fighting him and doing it by default) and yet I concur with KoP here.  It's one factor, it is not a deciding factor.  If you leave it out of your argument, you can still persuade the Landsmeet to side with the Wardens.  If you include it, you don't necessarily persuade them.

Therefore the sensible conclusion is that while people don't really like it, it is not met with outrage.  I suspect because it's "just" elves from the Alienage, but I have no proof of that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

We have already discussed the Orlesian thing, I will not return to it. and the civil war was equally the blame of the bannorn. But at least Loghain stood a better chance than the revolting nobility.



And yes, Loghain and Ferelden would have lost without the PC. But he doesn't know that

and he needs money. So selling elves is justifiable to try and end the civil war. IT doesn't work because the game is made so that the PC saves the day and no one else. So you are not really arguing for anything.

It's an action taht generates money that the kingdom needs. Period. It's justifiable. Even if it doesn't work (which we know from an off game view).

[robertthebard]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zemore wrote...
the elves were still free he TOOK thier freedom away Orlais TOOK Fereldens freedom away its the same damn thing ,it doesnt matter if they dident like the elves it doesnt change the parralels of what was done its one large e power assuming that they own a smaller weaker group.

A weak comparision. A country being invaded and robbed of its sovereignity and independence  is one thing. Weak elves being sold to slavery by the government in order to protect the kigndom is an entirely different thing all together.
It doesn't take a political scientist to see the difference.

Loghain couldn't take the money he needed from the nobility, lest they withdraw their support. Which would have been disastrous for him.

However, as we discussed earlier, he didn't sell the elves to protect Ferelden, but to finance the civil war that could have been averted.  Again, it's not my intention here to tell anyone that they should or should not spare Loghain, but to simply look at the facts presented as they are presented.  Selling the elves into slavery is one point, and it's not even needed at the Landsmeet.  You get far more mileage, 3 points, by not betraying Anora, and 2 points from the Revered Mother for discovering the Templar in the Denerim dungeon.  Not to mention support from Bann Alfastana(?) for finding her brother, who is the Templar in question, if you give her his ring.  That's 6 points, you need 5 to win.  It's interesting to note, however, that abandoning the King to die in Ostagar costs you 1 point, because, as Eamon points out in Redcliffe, it's an accusation w/out proof.  You have no proof that he did indeed do that, evn though you can prove he left the field.  You have no way to know if Cailan was even alive when he sounded the retreat.  All we have is the order of the cutscene, but we have no idea if it's accurate or not.

[Lotion Soronarr]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Yep, just as I thought. I didn't expect any real retort.

That's cause there's no retort that's more appropriate.
Your inability to acknowledge other solutions makes other kinds of argument pointless.

Sex slavery does not generate as much waelth as "normal" slavery.  

Got statistics to prove that?

[Sabriana]

Oh bah. Knight is trying to make an excellent point of how a war-leader, caught in a 2 front battle would reason things out and justify those actions. He makes a lot of sense.

Loghain doesn't have any options left, and he can't back out. No commander/general/whatever would back out at that point, everything is too far gone. Loghain is grasping at straws, and justifies his behavior in the way that Knight is trying to explain. It's the way of war. It's the way of the strong swallowing up the weak whole. That's the way it was throughout history in the real world as well. Rome, Greece, and many other now called 'superior' cultures couldn't function without their slaves. The great wall of China wouldn't be here if it hadn't been build with the blood, sweat, tears, and lives of slaves.

You have to differentiate between a normal person who's not involved in a desperate 2 fronted war, and the supreme commander of one side being slowly but surely backed into a corner.



Do I personally think that slavery is fine and dandy? Heck no, it's atrocious, vile, and much worse. But can I put myself into that general's shoes? Yes, I can. Does that make me think that slavery is fine. No. It definitely does not.

[Sabriana]

Gimmemocha wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...He was doing it secretly.
And while the hypocritical nobility might dislike the idea, the fact that he is engaged in slavery does not necessarily result in the Landsmeet siding against Loghain. It's only one factor. Loghain can still gain the support of the Landsmeet even after they know what he is doing. So it's not a farcry from the acceptable.

Please note that I don't like Loghain, I do choose to kill him always (whether me doing it or Alistair fighting him and doing it by default) and yet I concur with KoP here.  It's one factor, it is not a deciding factor.  If you leave it out of your argument, you can still persuade the Landsmeet to side with the Wardens.  If you include it, you don't necessarily persuade them.

Therefore the sensible conclusion is that while people don't really like it, it is not met with outrage.  I suspect because it's "just" elves from the Alienage, but I have no proof of that.

Yeah. You have proof. Play the city elf origin. That's all the proof I needed. Perhaps you think different, and that's fine. As far as I (and my PC) was concerned, that was proof enough that elves are getting the short end of the stick at all times.

[Zemore]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

We have already discussed the Orlesian thing, I will not return to it. and the civil war was equally the blame of the bannorn. But at least Loghain stood a better chance than the revolting nobility.

And yes, Loghain and Ferelden would have lost without the PC. But he doesn't know that
and he needs money. So selling elves is justifiable to try and end the civil war. IT doesn't work because the game is made so that the PC saves the day and no one else. So you are not really arguing for anything.
It's an action taht generates money that the kingdom needs. Period. It's justifiable. Even if it doesn't work (which we know from an off game view).

Its Justifyable To Loghain im not arguing the fact that he sees it as a means to an ends
But just because you belive your king of the potato people doesnt mean you are what we think and what the reality is determines what is right and wrong and the reality is he put people through needless suffering started a war that only the darkspawn would win  if not for the wardens trying to say he dident Know doesnt change the fact he was wrong.

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But imo a rapist should suffer the death penalty immediately.  

For once we totally agree.

[robertthebard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Yep, just as I thought. I didn't expect any real retort.

That's cause there's no retort that's more appropriate.
Your inability to acknowledge other solutions makes other kinds of argument pointless.

Welcome to our world.

[Lotion Soronarr]

robertthebard wrote...
 BTW, you are wrong.  Alistair says at Flemeth's hut that Loghain must be brought to justice.  He only says no to him becoming a GW once it becomes an issue.  He really can't object to it any time before then, now can he?

Yes, and he sez it several times one the option is given. Strongly. He makes it a point. The only way he could have be more assertive is if he pulled a blade.
Granted, given that you could always sway him before in the game leads some to think you could do it here too. But again, that kind of thinking is somewhat metagaming (I have super high coercion, I can make him do anything!!).

You mentioned earlier that you had been in many arguements on the internet.  Based on your track record here, I'm pretty sure I know how that worked out for you.  When you absolutely can't make everyone see things your way, it's time for Godwin's Law?  You see, you have the black and white view in a grey world.  Nobody cares how you want to play your game.  If you'll notice, my posts in this thread are in contention with the topic.  Yet, once again, I find myself embarrassed to be in a discussion in which I have to have a position any where close to yours.

What's Godwins Law got to do with anything? You use it as if it atuomatilcy invalidates everything and is "bad" or dissalowed thing. Rubbish. I'll use an name or comparison I feel like using - ESPECIALLY if it fits.

You find yourself embarrased? Fine. I find myself embarrased for belonging to the same species as you. Happy now?

KnightofPhoenix
So selling elves is justifiable to try and end the civil war.

Everything is justifiable by the insane and corrupt. EVERYTHING.
I could torture and kill you and find a way to justify it.  You'd disagree of course, but your agrrement isn't necessary.

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

despite what you said earlier about a military court laughing off this sort of thing, I personally doubt a US military court would deal kindly with a general that took that sort of action - especially if the general did it shortly before he tried a military coup to take over the government. In fact I think very few people would consider this sort of thing acceptable behavior.

You think about it, you do not know for sure and you assume you are right.

I do not assume. I KNOW I am right. History shows me this.

That´s nothing but arrogance talking here. You don´t KNOW anything. You can´t. You can´t even know if what you call history is true at all.

So you're not a soldier, and have no concept of what combat is, but
claim to have a better perspective than anyone else?  As a former
soldier....

I might not have been to Iraq or Afghanistan, but I certainly know very well first hand what combat is ( 1989, was conscripted, and fought in a revolution ), thank you for the insult. I asked my opinnion of other sldiers from my country as well. So ye, believe what you will.

I am curios if you have been in a real combat situation, not some training or lounging on a carrier or same base after a war.

Before talking about your "experience" you should tell where exactly you fought, and for which country. Otherwise you seem ridiculous.

[robertthebard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
 BTW, you are wrong.  Alistair says at Flemeth's hut that Loghain must be brought to justice.  He only says no to him becoming a GW once it becomes an issue.  He really can't object to it any time before then, now can he?

Yes, and he sez it several times one the option is given. Strongly. He makes it a point. The only way he could have be more assertive is if he pulled a blade.
Granted, given that you could always sway him before in the game leads some to think you could do it here too. But again, that kind of thinking is somewhat metagaming (I have super high coercion, I can make him do anything!!).

You mentioned earlier that you had been in many arguements on the internet.  Based on your track record here, I'm pretty sure I know how that worked out for you.  When you absolutely can't make everyone see things your way, it's time for Godwin's Law?  You see, you have the black and white view in a grey world.  Nobody cares how you want to play your game.  If you'll notice, my posts in this thread are in contention with the topic.  Yet, once again, I find myself embarrassed to be in a discussion in which I have to have a position any where close to yours.

What's Godwins Law got to do with anything? You use it as if it atuomatilcy invalidates everything and is "bad" or dissalowed thing. Rubbish. I'll use an name or comparison I feel like using - ESPECIALLY if it fits.

You find yourself embarrased? Fine. I find myself embarrased for belonging to the same species as you. Happy now?

KnightofPhoenix
So selling elves is justifiable to try and end the civil war.

Everything is justifiable by the insane and corrupt. EVERYTHING.
I could torture and kill you and find a way to justify it.  You'd disagree of course, but your agrrement isn't necessary.

Again, I call attention to something you wrote to support why I find you largely irrelevent in conversation:

Lotion wrote...Your inability to acknowledge other solutions makes other kinds of argument pointless.

It's funny that you would use your own behavior in a conversation to try and call somebody else down on theirs.
Source
Your position?  Killing Loghain is the only option you can take.  Anything else is wrong, unwise, stupid, not the way I played, so it can't be right, etc etc etc.  Surprisingly enough, this is your style in any thread where you feel like it.  Despite the fact that I feel Loghain is a right bastard, and is guilty of a lot of what this thread tries to clear him of, initially, I still don't pretend that my games are, or should be considered Canon.

Feel free to be embarrassed about belonging to my species.  I really don't care.  If you fell off the planet tomorrow, I likely wouldn't notice.  However, I would like to thank you for empowering me beyond what my own scope for myself is.  Would you like to have one of Alistair's Kleenexes now?

[Gimmemocha]

Sabriana wrote...

Gimmemocha wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...He was doing it secretly.
And while the hypocritical nobility might dislike the idea, the fact that he is engaged in slavery does not necessarily result in the Landsmeet siding against Loghain. It's only one factor. Loghain can still gain the support of the Landsmeet even after they know what he is doing. So it's not a farcry from the acceptable.

Please note that I don't like Loghain, I do choose to kill him always (whether me doing it or Alistair fighting him and doing it by default) and yet I concur with KoP here.  It's one factor, it is not a deciding factor.  If you leave it out of your argument, you can still persuade the Landsmeet to side with the Wardens.  If you include it, you don't necessarily persuade them.

Therefore the sensible conclusion is that while people don't really like it, it is not met with outrage.  I suspect because it's "just" elves from the Alienage, but I have no proof of that.

Yeah. You have proof. Play the city elf origin. That's all the proof I needed. Perhaps you think different, and that's fine. As far as I (and my PC) was concerned, that was proof enough that elves are getting the short end of the stick at all times.

Well, the way the elves are treated in the Alienage is why I assume the slavery thing isn't enough to turn people against Loghain.  But since no one comes right out and says it, I say I have no proof.

My city elf is a right **** to everyone human because of that origin.  Except Alistair. He's just funny and harmless and she can't manage to hate him.  She hates humans, but she's not a puppy-kicker. ;D

[Costin_Razvan]

I love how Alistair fan girls make every reason to defend him.

Before talking about your "experience" you should tell where exactly
you fought, and for which country. Otherwise you seem ridiculous.

 

Romanian Revolution of 1989. As for what I know, prove it. The laws are posted on the internet you know, with articles and such.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 15 janvier 2010 - 02:59 .

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

We have already discussed the Orlesian thing, I will not return to it. and the civil war was equally the blame of the bannorn. But at least Loghain stood a better chance than the revolting nobility.

And yes, Loghain and Ferelden would have lost without the PC. But he doesn't know that
and he needs money. So selling elves is justifiable to try and end the civil war. IT doesn't work because the game is made so that the PC saves the day and no one else. So you are not really arguing for anything.
It's an action taht generates money that the kingdom needs. Period. It's justifiable. Even if it doesn't work (which we know from an off game view).

In his place, I would have freed the elves, trained them as my personal elite guard and killed the nobles.


Why?

• I can take their money.
• The nobles are a threat to my leadership.
• The elves would owe me their freedom, so I have completely loyal warriors with them.
• Freeing the elves allows an alliance with Dalish  ==> Access to great archers and, even more important, to MAGES
• Using these mages as teachers I can teach people capable of magic myself instead of in the circle = I get my private mages.
• Both army and mages are completely under my control, all opposing nobles dead

I finally get a total and unquestionable leadership without cruel or amoral actions.  (Well, killing the nobles is cruel, but I´ll force the historians to write they started a civil war, so it doesn´t matter.)

[Gimmemocha]

You've got it backwards. There are reasons, and so I'm a fangirl. Those reasons just aren't good enough for you. I could mock you for being a Loghain apologist, but I don't.



It reminds me of how it drives my sister just absolutely bonkers that I eat salad without salad dressing. Every time she sees it, she stares, then can't resist making comments. "HOW can you eat that?!" she says. It's sorta funny.

[Zemore]

robertthebard wrote...
" I still don't pretend that my games are, or should be considered Canon."

  "Would you like to have one of Alistair's Kleenexes now?"

isnt that the entire point of the game? its meant to be a personal journey the facts all remain the same of what has happend however so it comes down to each persona you makes morality to shape the world.

and do they even have Kleenexes? ... or even toilet paper? if not what do they use?

but yeah personaly i think no matter what way you choose to play any choice you make is the right one for your playstyle and char but if you look at the actions as a human being in our world alot of things that transpire you know are wrong you know they shouldent happen and you know Loghain is a well bad bad man =( but they did happen and well you cant do anything about it.

but thats the point of the Logster  he is a human who made alot of mistakes i dont for one second think Loghain meant for things to end up how they did but the fact is they did and thats just the way it is some of the worst things have come to pass via Good intentions. that and Loggys a nuttcase he thinks orlesians are in his undies spying on his wang.

[Gimmemocha]

Zemore wrote...
and do they even have Kleenexes? ... or even toilet paper? if not what do they use?

Convenient city elves, I suspect.

[robertthebard]

Zemore wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
" I still don't pretend that my games are, or should be considered Canon."

  "Would you like to have one of Alistair's Kleenexes now?"

isnt that the entire point of the game? its meant to be a personal journey the facts all remain the same of what has happend however so it comes down to each persona you makes morality to shape the world.

and do they even have Kleenexes? ... or even toilet paper? if not what do they use?

but yeah personaly i think no matter what way you choose to play any choice you make is the right one for your playstyle and char but if you look at the actions as a human being in our world alot of things that transpire you know are wrong you know they shouldent happen and you know Loghain is a well bad bad man =( but they did happen and well you cant do anything about it.

but thats the point of the Logster  he is a human who made alot of mistakes i dont for one second think Loghain meant for things to end up how they did but the fact is they did and thats just the way it is some of the worst things have come to pass via Good intentions. that and Loggys a nuttcase he thinks orlesians are in his undies spying on his wang.

They have Kleenex, because I invented them for Alistair, hence the sig.  It has to be self replenishing, however, as if they aren't, he'd be gone before he gets to Lothering.

[Sabriana]

Gimmemocha wrote...

Well, the way the elves are treated in the Alienage is why I assume the slavery thing isn't enough to turn people against Loghain.  But since no one comes right out and says it, I say I have no proof.

My city elf is a right **** to everyone human because of that origin.  Except Alistair. He's just funny and harmless and she can't manage to hate him.  She hates humans, but she's not a puppy-kicker. ;D

Well there, you see. Perfect post to show that we are all entitled to play our games the way we enjoy them most.
My city elf didn't care one way or the other about the humans, until the atrociousness that was Vaughn was inflicted on the alienage. Now she hates them all, especially the human males.

She heartily dislikes Alistair and finds him immature and selfish. She has a similar view on most humans she encounters (yes, even Teagan;)) The only human she likes is Leliana. She is falling for Zevran at the moment, but feels some kind of warmth toward Sten, and of all people, Oghren.

To each her/his own. Because she doesn't care about what Alistair wants, thinks, and feels, and looks upon him with disdain, it's quite possible she'll let Loghain sacrifice himself. I don't know yet, I don't want to metagame, it all depends on how and what develops during play. Especially because of the slavery bit, it's kind of iffy that she can reason it out so that Loghain may live.

To her the happenings at Ostagar and Redcliffe mean little. Humans killing each other is fine and dandy with her. The slave issue on the other hand is going to be difficult for her to resolve one way or the other. I'll wait and see. It could well turn out that she'll personally chop Loghain's head off, and release Alistair from the misery of his life by letting him go out in a blaze of glory.

And there you have it. My game. My decisions. My business, no one elses.

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Before talking about your "experience" you should tell where exactly
you fought, and for which country. Otherwise you seem ridiculous.

 

Romanian Revolution of 1989. As for what I know, prove it. The laws are posted on the internet you know, with articles and such.

Wow, now THAT will surely count much........ No offense meant, but while I believe you that such an experience was not very enjoyable you should see that the fall of communism is NOT AT ALL related with a war led by medieval means. So I don´t see how this gives you any authority on the matter.

As for the laws, I don´t recall you EVER quoted a law or something. You were only giving your personal opinion.

Modifié par Tirigon, 15 janvier 2010 - 03:11 .

[Zemore]

robertthebard wrote...

They have Kleenex, because I invented them for Alistair, hence the sig.  It has to be self replenishing, however, as if they aren't, he'd be gone before he gets to Lothering.

you dident answer what they use for toilet paper I DEMAND ANSWERS!! im thinking wolf pelts

AL is a bit weepy but i did like him overall as a char i burst in to laughter evertime i tell the dog hes full of rubbish and he goes HEY! just the way he says it makes me laugh =)

Gimmemocha wrote...

Zemore wrote...
and do they even have Kleenexes? ... or even toilet paper? if not what do they use?

Convenient city elves, I suspect.

i said toilet paper not german poop porn

Modifié par Zemore, 15 janvier 2010 - 03:12 .

[Tirigon]

Sabriana wrote...

Well there, you see. Perfect post to show that we are all entitled to play our games the way we enjoy them most.
My city elf didn't care one way or the other about the humans, until the atrociousness that was Vaughn was inflicted on the alienage. Now she hates them all, especially the human males.

She heartily dislikes Alistair and finds him immature and selfish. She has a similar view on most humans she encounters (yes, even Teagan;)) The only human she likes is Leliana. She is falling for Zevran at the moment, but feels some kind of warmth toward Sten, and of all people, Oghren.

To each her/his own. Because she doesn't care about what Alistair wants, thinks, and feels, and looks upon him with disdain, it's quite possible she'll let Loghain sacrifice himself. I don't know yet, I don't want to metagame, it all depends on how and what develops during play. Especially because of the slavery bit, it's kind of iffy that she can reason it out so that Loghain may live.

To her the happenings at Ostagar and Redcliffe mean little. Humans killing each other is fine and dandy with her. The slave issue on the other hand is going to be difficult for her to resolve one way or the other. I'll wait and see. It could well turn out that she'll personally chop Loghain's head off, and release Alistair from the misery of his life by letting him go out in a blaze of glory.

And there you have it. My game. My decisions. My business, no one elses.

You know, that´s all nice and good, but it really has nothing to do with wether Loghain is a douchebag who deserves to die or not.