1429 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...
Like they did when they sided with them in "The Calling"? Fool me once...etc.

In what way would allowing the Grey Wardens to fight the darkspawn under his command endanger Ferelden?

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Like they did when they sided with them in "The Calling"? Fool me once...etc.

In what way would allowing the Grey Wardens to fight the darkspawn under his command endanger Ferelden?

He did, didn't he? He may have distrusted them & warned Cailan. But the delayed signal, the miraculous survival (Could Loghain have anticipated Flemeth rescuing them?) The Wardens (One among them a new recruit who is either a former condemned criminal or a person who has recently endured horrible tragedies or both) supposed to signal him light the beacon too late and survive the battle by some sort of miracle. The Wardens in the battle were to signal you and Alistair just WHEN to light the beacon. SO: Loghain sees a massacre unfolding and the Wardens "ordering" a delayed, fatal beacon. (That's how I think he perceives it) But maybe I'm wrong.

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Right in not serving the appointed regent?

Appointed by whom?

The ruling queen. Good enough?:happy:

Anora is not a ruling queen at that point, she's merely Cailan's widow. The Landsmeet decides about the monarch. Loghain illegally claiming regency, so he can do as he pleases, is what upsets the Bannorn and sparks civil war.

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...

He did, didn't he? He may have distrusted them & warned Cailan. But the delayed signal, the miraculous survival (Could Loghain have anticipated Flemeth rescuing them?) The Wardens (One among them a new recruit who is either a former condemned criminal or a person who has recently endured horrible tragedies or both) supposed to signal him light the beacon too late and survive the battle by some sort of miracle. The Wardens in the battle were to signal you and Alistair just WHEN to light the beacon. SO: Loghain sees a massacre unfolding and the Wardens "ordering" a delayed, fatal beacon. (That's how I think he perceives it) But maybe I'm wrong.

He accuses the Wardens of treason before he learns that two new recruits have survived the destruction of their order.

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...

He did, didn't he? He may have distrusted them & warned Cailan. But the delayed signal, the miraculous survival (Could Loghain have anticipated Flemeth rescuing them?) The Wardens (One among them a new recruit who is either a former condemned criminal or a person who has recently endured horrible tragedies or both) supposed to signal him light the beacon too late and survive the battle by some sort of miracle. The Wardens in the battle were to signal you and Alistair just WHEN to light the beacon. SO: Loghain sees a massacre unfolding and the Wardens "ordering" a delayed, fatal beacon. (That's how I think he perceives it) But maybe I'm wrong.

He accuses the Wardens of treason before he learns that two new recruits have survived the destruction of their order.

And based on what I said (Even though it was wrong), it wasn't just done on an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiil whim.

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...
He did, didn't he? He may have distrusted them & warned Cailan. But the delayed signal, the miraculous survival (Could Loghain have anticipated Flemeth rescuing them?) The Wardens (One among them a new recruit who is either a former condemned criminal or a person who has recently endured horrible tragedies or both) supposed to signal him light the beacon too late and survive the battle by some sort of miracle. The Wardens in the battle were to signal you and Alistair just WHEN to light the beacon. SO: Loghain sees a massacre unfolding and the Wardens "ordering" a delayed, fatal beacon. (That's how I think he perceives it) But maybe I'm wrong.

Loghain knows that there are tunnels under the tower, so when it is lit late the most obvious reason would be that the two youngsters failed. Considering that they are the only survivors and the Warden Commander and the seasoned veterans die with Cailan in the battle exactly where they were supposed to be, how could he possibly mistake this as an act of treason? Paranoid much?

Modifié par klarabella, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:37 .

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Right in not serving the appointed regent?

Appointed by whom?

The ruling queen. Good enough?:happy:

Anora is not a ruling queen at that point, she's merely Cailan's widow. The Landsmeet decides about the monarch. Loghain illegally claiming regency, so he can do as he pleases, is what upsets the Bannorn and sparks civil war.

Anora was accepted as queen. No one contested her right to rule. And the Bannorn are always troublemakers.

Modifié par Persephone, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:34 .

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
He did, didn't he? He may have distrusted them & warned Cailan. But the delayed signal, the miraculous survival (Could Loghain have anticipated Flemeth rescuing them?) The Wardens (One among them a new recruit who is either a former condemned criminal or a person who has recently endured horrible tragedies or both) supposed to signal him light the beacon too late and survive the battle by some sort of miracle. The Wardens in the battle were to signal you and Alistair just WHEN to light the beacon. SO: Loghain sees a massacre unfolding and the Wardens "ordering" a delayed, fatal beacon. (That's how I think he perceives it) But maybe I'm wrong.

Loghain knows that there are tunnels under the tower, so when it is lit late the most obvious reason would be that the two youngsters failed. Considering that they are the only survivors and the Warden Commander and the seasoned veterans die with Cailan in the battle exactly where they were supposed to be, how could he possibly mistake this as an act of treason? Paranoid much?

Oh, I never denied that he is paranoid.

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...
And based on what I said (Even though it was wrong), it wasn't just done on an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiil whim.

It was done to cover up his own actions.

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...
And based on what I said (Even though it was wrong), it wasn't just done on an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiil whim.

It was done to cover up his own actions.

Another interpretation. Whatever floats your gondola.

[Sarah1281]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...
And based on what I said (Even though it was wrong), it wasn't just done on an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiil whim.

It was done to cover up his own actions.

I disagree. If Loghain believed that you and Alistair lit the beacon late on purpose, then it wouldn't matter if they survived the battle or were killed later because lighting the beacon already occured. And if Loghain had to retreat because the battle was lost, which he says, then he could do this without accusing the GWs of being traitors. I don't think that accusing them covers up anything. It seems like, for the valid reasons stated before and because of his own over-the-top paranoia, he honestly thinks that they are traitors and respons accordingly.

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...
Anora was accepted as queen. No one contested her right to rule. And the Bannorn are always troublemakers.

Anora was called Ferelden's queen and a likely candidate to be declared Cailan's successor but we aren't told what title she actually holds.

Queen can mean:
queen-consort - the spouse of a ruling king
queen dowager - widow of the deceased king
queen-regnant - ruling queen

[alschemid]

Sarah1281 wrote...
It seems like, for the valid reasons stated before and because of his own over-the-top paranoia, he honestly thinks that they are traitors and respons accordingly.

Don't forget the wardens and chevaliers waiting at the border.

Modifié par alschemid, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:54 .

[nos_astra]

Sarah1281 wrote...
I disagree. If Loghain believed that you and Alistair lit the beacon late on purpose, then it wouldn't matter if they survived the battle or were killed later because lighting the beacon already occured. And if Loghain had to retreat because the battle was lost, which he says, then he could do this without accusing the GWs of being traitors. I don't think that accusing them covers up anything. It seems like, for the valid reasons stated before and because of his own over-the-top paranoia, he honestly thinks that they are traitors and respons accordingly.

Why would two youngsters light the beacon late on purpose when the survival of their order depends on their lightning said beacon?
I suppose, he declared the Grey Wardens traitors, so he could use it as a reason why he continued to refuse help from the Orlesian Wardens.

Modifié par klarabella, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:58 .

[Persephone]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...
And based on what I said (Even though it was wrong), it wasn't just done on an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiil whim.

It was done to cover up his own actions.

I disagree. If Loghain believed that you and Alistair lit the beacon late on purpose, then it wouldn't matter if they survived the battle or were killed later because lighting the beacon already occured. And if Loghain had to retreat because the battle was lost, which he says, then he could do this without accusing the GWs of being traitors. I don't think that accusing them covers up anything. It seems like, for the valid reasons stated before and because of his own over-the-top paranoia, he honestly thinks that they are traitors and respons accordingly.

Yep. Even many of his detractors aknowledge that he BELIEVES what he is saying. Wrong he may be, but he is not lying like Howe is lying to Daddy Cousland.

[Wulfram]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 I disagree. If Loghain believed that you and Alistair lit the beacon late on purpose, then it wouldn't matter if they survived the battle or were killed later because lighting the beacon already occured. And if Loghain had to retreat because the battle was lost, which he says, then he could do this without accusing the GWs of being traitors. I don't think that accusing them covers up anything. It seems like, for the valid reasons stated before and because of his own over-the-top paranoia, he honestly thinks that they are traitors and respons accordingly.

It explains why he had to disobey the orders of the King - the King didn't know the Grey Wardens were traitors.

I prefer explanations that leave Loghain with some shreds of sanity and competence - and him actually believing that the wardens had an evil plan to get themselves massacred doesn't.

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Anora was accepted as queen. No one contested her right to rule. And the Bannorn are always troublemakers.

Anora was called Ferelden's queen and a likely candidate to be declared Cailan's successor but we aren't told what title she actually holds.

Queen can mean:
queen-consort - the spouse of a ruling king
queen dowager - widow of the deceased king
queen-regnant - ruling queen

I know all this. Again, she was the aknowledged queen. Her rights weren't disputed by anyone. And in my playthroughs she remains on the throne. Whether I spare Loghain or not. (One recent exception: I wanted to see my Cousland's wedding. )

[Wulfram]

If Anora was reigning Queen, why would she require a regent?

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
 I disagree. If Loghain believed that you and Alistair lit the beacon late on purpose, then it wouldn't matter if they survived the battle or were killed later because lighting the beacon already occured. And if Loghain had to retreat because the battle was lost, which he says, then he could do this without accusing the GWs of being traitors. I don't think that accusing them covers up anything. It seems like, for the valid reasons stated before and because of his own over-the-top paranoia, he honestly thinks that they are traitors and respons accordingly.

It explains why he had to disobey the orders of the King - the King didn't know the Grey Wardens were traitors.

I prefer explanations that leave Loghain with some shreds of sanity and competence - and him actually believing that the wardens had an evil plan to get themselves massacred doesn't.

It wouldn't be the first conspiracy that ends with the conspirators being slaughtered.

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

If Anora was reigning Queen, why would she require a regent?

Because of the brewing problems in the south. Because of the Bannorn. (Which also makes trouble in WH and DAA) Henry VIII made two of his wives his regent while he was on campaign.

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
If Anora was reigning Queen, why would she require a regent?

Because of the brewing problems in the south. Because of the Bannorn. (Which also makes trouble in WH and DAA) Henry VIII made two of his wives his regent while he was on campaign.

So Loghain was planning to stay in Denerim, so he can rule in Anora's place, while she's leading the armies?

Um, no.

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
If Anora was reigning Queen, why would she require a regent?

Because of the brewing problems in the south. Because of the Bannorn. (Which also makes trouble in WH and DAA) Henry VIII made two of his wives his regent while he was on campaign.

So Loghain was planning to stay in Denerim, so he can rule in Anora's place, while she's leading the armies?

Um, no.

Um, no. The other way round works just as well, you know? 

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...
Um, no. The other way round works just as well, you know?

No, it doesn't, it's completely pointless.

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...

Because of the brewing problems in the south. Because of the Bannorn. (Which also makes trouble in WH and DAA) Henry VIII made two of his wives his regent while he was on campaign.

Anora isn't going on campaign.  She's in Denerim, in full control of her faculties.

The brewing problems in the south are an excellent reason for Loghain not to be regent - he should be busy leading Ferelden's army against the blight, not devoting his time to pissing off the bannorn, hanging out with slavers and inventing conspiracies.

[Giggles_Manically]

Official leaders of nations can appoint other people the regent of a nation at certain times.

Like if the leader is to young or ill to rule.



Loghain was named regent to confront the darkspawn, but then he took it to try and protect against Orlais. Which is where the train goes off the cliff sadly.