617 réponses à ce sujet

[Auld Wulf]

Well, I put out a call for Destroy fans to actually set aside the binary opposition that they created, which is why this thread exists, and I see they couldn't do that. I wonder at this point whether Destroy is just the straight up the "for limited sociopaths who just need to 'win' and all" option. It's seeming more and more like it. Destroy fans aren't reasonable or nice people.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 15 février 2013 - 11:56 .

[Jadebaby]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I do not choose Destroy because I want to avoid destroying the Reapers if I can.

How many of the characters that wanted something other than the Reapers dead were indoctrinated? That's right, all of them.

No, no, no. Saren and TIM's ideas are good ones. So were the prothean splinter group of indoctrinated agents that sabataged the last cycle. 

They're good. It's a good thing.

Not like any of these people brought down empires, or committed henious acts or hung out with reapers or anything. 

They're good people. And Saren's ideas of merging the best of machines and organics into the final perfect evolution of life sounds nothing like synthesis. And TIM's idea of control was never tried before. And TIM is perfectly mentally stable and making his own decisions. 


It's a good thing. 

Well, you've certainly convinced me.. Where do I sign up Ieldra?

[CynicalShep]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Well, I put out a call for Destroy fans to actually set aside the binary opposition that they created, which is why this thread exists, and I see they couldn't do that. I wonder at this point whether Destroy is just the straight up the "for limited sociopaths who just need to 'win' and all" option. It's seeming more and more like it. Destroy fans aren't reasonable or nice people.

You must be a really nice person in RL. 

[BleedingUranium]

Sure Wulf, whatever you say.

[o Ventus]

Are... People still actually replying to Wulf?

Oh my...

[Uncle Jo]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Well, I put out a call for Destroy fans to actually set aside the binary opposition that they created, which is why this thread exists, and I see they couldn't do that. I wonder at this point whether Destroy is just the straight up the "for limited sociopaths who just need to 'win' and all" option. It's seeming more and more like it. Destroy fans aren't reasonable or nice people.

[Jadebaby]

What a great troll. I love the BSN, there's so many good trolls!!

[CynicalShep]

Jadebaby wrote...

What a great troll. I love the BSN, there's so many good trolls!!

If you think Wulf is a good troll stay clear of 4chan 

[TurianRebel212]

CynicalShep wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

What a great troll. I love the BSN, there's so many good trolls!!

If you think Wulf is a good troll stay clear of 4chan 

No it's not a troll. It's the Overlord Hudson in disguise protecting his 'artistic integrity'.



I'm just kidding......... Maybe.

[Cyrax86]

Pushing your opinion as correct/fact, while saying others opinions are wrong.

Synthesis - Forcing evolution on everyone and everything, If synthesis is the final form evolution, what happens to all species/aliens that are and were still evolving. What happens to the species/people/organics that don't want to be synthetic are they going to be allowed to find away to go back to being fully organic or will the rest oppose it. The Reapers killed billions of people who had families, friends and loved ones, im sure their first thought is how can i be a lot more like them so i can understand them. At least the Reapers and starkid are gone ...... oh wait.

Control - Because Supreme Overlord Shep demands IT. How long before the other/some/all races start to oppose supreme overlord Shep and we get a Reaper war 2.0.


Just my opinion on the other endings. "If we destroy them, this ends today".

[ElSuperGecko]

I chose Destroy because I don't believe Shepard's resolve or convictions would be swayed by a three-minute chat with a being that openly admits to being the most notorioous and unrepentant mass murderer of all time.

Seriously. It takes less than a minute's worth of vague, ambiguous chit-chat with the creator of the bad guys to convince some of you people to do something you would have never previously even contemplated doing?  Which is it - easily persuaded or easily duped?

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 15 février 2013 - 02:01 .

[dorktainian]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

I chose Destroy because I don't believe Shepard's resolve or convictions would be swayed by a three-minute chat with a being that openly admits to being the most notorious and unrepentant mass murderer of all time.

   

This.  

[spirosz]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Destroy fans aren't reasonable or nice people.

Look at you, generalizing and making assumptions.  <3

[dorktainian]

Auld Wulf wrote..

Destroy fans aren't reasonable or nice people.

     

But we're winning the argument.  and it's eating you up isnt it?  

[Dieb]

So yeah, I'm still rather a rookie to this board. And I agree almost every aspect of the game is open for debate. Catching what other people think and all that. I also agree, that all the particular ending choices themselves are open for debate as well. But that's not even what this thread is about.

Why are we trying to convince others that their very personal decision with their own character in their game is wrong?
It's your choice of words that gets me thinking. I mean, what does "wrong" really mean, in a decision in which whatever the player picks, simply... happens?

I feel like I'm missing a really big thing here.

[BirdsallSa]

You all don't understand. Shepard isn't some bull-headed soldier who's stuck on destroying the Reapers and stopping the cycle. There's no evidence to support this. Ieldra says it best when it describes Shepard as "curious about the Reapers" and "wished they weren't an enemy". There is tons of in game evidence that supports this. Meeting the Intelligence and discovering it was really just orchestrating the cycle to protect us is just icing on the cake to move forward with Synthesis.

[dorktainian]

BirdsallSa wrote...

You all don't understand. Shepard isn't some bull-headed soldier who's stuck on destroying the Reapers and stopping the cycle. There's no evidence to support this. Ieldra says it best when it describes Shepard as "curious about the Reapers" and "wished they weren't an enemy". There is tons of in game evidence that supports this. Meeting the Intelligence and discovering it was really just orchestrating the cycle to protect us is just icing on the cake to move forward with Synthesis.

    


Shepard.  Together we can stop Sovereign. We don’t have to submit to the Reapers. We can beat them!

Saren: Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth!

Shepard: I’d rather die than live like that.  



Illusive Man: Destroying the Reapers gains us nothing.

Shepard: How about peace?     


and you were saying?    

[BirdsallSa]

Baelrahn wrote...

So yeah, I'm still rather a rookie to this board. And I agree almost every aspect of the game is open for debate. Catching what other people think and all that. I also agree, that all the particular ending choices themselves are open for debate as well. But that's not even what this thread is about.

Why are we trying to convince others that their very personal decision with their own character in their game is wrong?
It's your choice of words that gets me thinking. I mean, what does "wrong" really mean, in a decision in which whatever the player picks, simply... happens?

I feel like I'm missing a really big thing here.

My thoughts exactly. Why do all the destroy supporters have to go around trying to spread their doctrine like a plague? It's not like Ieldra made a thread specifically for dismissing your ending? So why must you do so to Synthesis, which is backed up scientifically and thematically significantly more throughout the series? Like Baelrahn says, "what is wrong?". Because, if overwriting everyone's dna and altering the entire Universe at the beckon of the Intelligence is wrong, maybe you should check your dictionary.

[BirdsallSa]

dorktainian wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

You all don't understand. Shepard isn't some bull-headed soldier who's stuck on destroying the Reapers and stopping the cycle. There's no evidence to support this. Ieldra says it best when it describes Shepard as "curious about the Reapers" and "wished they weren't an enemy". There is tons of in game evidence that supports this. Meeting the Intelligence and discovering it was really just orchestrating the cycle to protect us is just icing on the cake to move forward with Synthesis.

    


Shepard.  Together we can stop Sovereign. We don’t have to submit to the Reapers. We can beat them!

Saren: Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth!

Shepard: I’d rather die than live like that.  



Illusive Man: Destroying the Reapers gains us nothing.

Shepard: How about peace?     


and you were saying?    

My Shepard didn't do Mass Effect 1 so he never said that first line.

[dreamgazer]

BirdsallSa wrote...

My Shepard didn't do Mass Effect 1 so he never said that first line.

(laughs really, really hard)

[Ieldra]

dorktainian wrote...
But we're winning the argument.  and it's eating you up isnt it?  

No, you're just louder and more persistent than the opposition, and I usually don't bother to reply to posts that bring nothing new to the table.

In case you haven't noticed, this topic is not about pragmatic reasons to choose an ending or another one, but about the narrative payoff of the ultimate outcome for each ending - or its lack, in the case of high EMS Destroy. This is of course highly subjective, but then, so are most ending arguments. 

@a few others here:
BTW, read my OP: I *specifically* said that my statements are not to be taken as an assertion that Destroy is wrong in any objective way.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 février 2013 - 02:57 .

[Eshaye]

Baelrahn wrote...

So yeah, I'm still rather a rookie to this board. And I agree almost every aspect of the game is open for debate. Catching what other people think and all that. I also agree, that all the particular ending choices themselves are open for debate as well. But that's not even what this thread is about.

Why are we trying to convince others that their very personal decision with their own character in their game is wrong?
It's your choice of words that gets me thinking. I mean, what does "wrong" really mean, in a decision in which whatever the player picks, simply... happens?

I feel like I'm missing a really big thing here.

Because BSN people love nothing more then to be proven right about something anything really. There is no true ending, but that won't stop forum posters to debate which one is the right one anyway.... I suspect people are afraid that in ME4 the canon ending for those that didn't play ME3 for example will be destroy just like the canon King of Ferelden in Dragon Age is Alistair. 

[dorktainian]

BirdsallSa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

You all don't understand. Shepard isn't some bull-headed soldier who's stuck on destroying the Reapers and stopping the cycle. There's no evidence to support this. Ieldra says it best when it describes Shepard as "curious about the Reapers" and "wished they weren't an enemy". There is tons of in game evidence that supports this. Meeting the Intelligence and discovering it was really just orchestrating the cycle to protect us is just icing on the cake to move forward with Synthesis.

    


Shepard.  Together we can stop Sovereign. We don’t have to submit to the Reapers. We can beat them!

Saren: Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth!

Shepard: I’d rather die than live like that.  



Illusive Man: Destroying the Reapers gains us nothing.

Shepard: How about peace?     


and you were saying?    

My Shepard didn't do Mass Effect 1 so he never said that first line.

   I'll add some ME2 for you.  See if you get the jist of this.

Illusive Man: Strength for Cerberus is strength for every human. Cerberus is humanity. I should have known you choke on the hard decisions. Too idealistic from the start.

Shepard: I know what you are. And the price of dealing with you. We do things my way from now on. Harbinger is coming. And he won’t be alone. I’m going to make sure we’re ready when they get here. You can fall in line or step aside. But don’t get in my way.

Illusive Man: You’re sure that’s what you want? You’re taking a hell of a risk Shepard.

Shepard: I don’t think so. I’m going to stop the Reapers. But I won’t sacrifice the soul of our species to do it.  


Just to be absolutely perfectly clear, you still picked Synthebodge after this conversation?  Seriously?

    

Modifié par dorktainian, 15 février 2013 - 02:57 .

[Ticonderoga117]

BirdsallSa wrote...

You all don't understand. Shepard isn't some bull-headed soldier who's stuck on destroying the Reapers and stopping the cycle. There's no evidence to support this. Ieldra says it best when it describes Shepard as "curious about the Reapers" and "wished they weren't an enemy". There is tons of in game evidence that supports this. Meeting the Intelligence and discovering it was really just orchestrating the cycle to protect us is just icing on the cake to move forward with Synthesis.

And then you realize that crazy AI, is well crazy and he contradicts himself.

Also, Shepard is NEVER "curious" about them to the point of "Yeah, let's listen to the most unrepentant mass murder in the history of forever so I can become him! Or somehow make complete BS happen."

[BirdsallSa]

Ieldra2 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
But we're winning the argument.  and it's eating you up isnt it?  

No, you're just louder and more persistent than the opposition, and I usually don't bother to reply to posts that bring nothing new to the table.

In case you haven't noticed, this topic is not about pragmatic reasons to choose an ending or another one, but about the narrative payoff of the ultimate outcome for each ending - or its lack, in the case of high EMS Destroy. This is of course highly subjective, but then, so are most ending arguments. 

The reason I'm a big fan of all of Ieldra2's posts is because all of them consist of pure logic, just like the conversation with the Intelligence, and the entire ending in general.