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The most compelling argument against Destroy: it is utterly, smotheringly boring!


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#26
Linkforlife

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Ieldra2 wrote...

@Linkforlife:
We're all writing the stories of our Shepards when we play. Of course you and I will write different ones. I may not like your story, but I have no agency over it. I just wish others would limit themselves to telling me that they (don't) like my story and why, and not try to assume agency over it. In fact, I have no idea how many of those who choose Destroy see their story as "kill the evil monsters and go home", but I've seen variants of it often enough to know it's rather common.


Please excuse the snarky remark but I see no other way to say this, but have you tried to understand the point of those who see their story as "kill the evil monsters and go home"?

As to the last part of you post here, aren't you doing something similar with this thread and trying to dissuade people from choosing Destroy to see things through your eyes? I am trying to find a neutral ground here, not trying to persuade people from choosing anything, my earlier post was of what *I* chose and my reason for *not* choosing Control, it has nothing to do with anyone else, it just happens that steelcan shares my opinion.

#27
Indy_S

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Steelcan wrote...
. Just because the EC slides show the aftermath doesn't mean it details every little event that might arise.  Salarian conflict with a resurgent krogan, the Terminus systems are still there, synthetic rebellions maybe.


I guess the difference is there are questions inherit in the other endings like "How do people adapt to the Reapers / Green Magic?" or "What springs up in the next cycle?" but Destroy leaves a rather vague "What happens next?" without any direction. 

#28
in it for the lolz

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Riiiight, like synthesis is not boring and sicking in anyway.

#29
FOX216BC

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 Image IPB

#30
CrystalXPredator

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Ieldra2 wrote...

More specifically:

High EMS Control/Synthesis in the EC version is utterly boring and unworthy of the story that came before.
Why? Well, who of you thought the ME trilogy would end as a standard "kill the evil monsters and go home" story? Who of you all thought it *should* end that way? If you did, then perhaps you're satisfied with Control/Synthesis, but I could never be. After all the interesting themes touched by the story, after hours and hours of story that made me think, discussing the themes involved with many others, story that triggered emotions and intellectual curiosity, made me angry at people's narrow-mindedness in and out of the story or appreciative of how others were handled, after almost living in this fictional world in spite of the occasional silliness, this is how it ends? Kill the evil monsters and go home to friends and family, nothing else really changes, the relays are rebuilt in time and everything goes back to normal? This is how it ends, with Hackett giving an epilogue speech that sounds like cobbled together from every alien invasion B-movie since the 1950s? To say it with Jon Irenicus: To end....like this?

Never. A story that ends like this could never be my story. At least, in the original Control/Synthesis ending, there was some change since the relays were destroyed. Good or bad, civilization went of into a new direction. There was something to think about. Was it worth the price? What would happen now? An ending like that sends my imagination into overdrive, triggering countless story hooks in my mind, just as the other endings do. High-EMS-Control/Synthesis? Triggers nothing. Instead, it smothers my imagination with its utter conventionality. And don't tell me about a "missing" reunion scene, that would have made it worse, adding yet another conventional stereotype.

So, dear Control/Synthesis, don't tell me how appropriate this ending is, how it's the only reasonable choice, a matter of military necessity etc.. etc.. That is all very subjective, and completely irrelevant in the face of one single fact: The game gives me an opportunity to shape the future of the galaxy, and I do not want the future that Control/Synthesis creates. I want change, I want things to happen that have never happened before, new wonders and new horrors both, a challenge for the civilization that emerges after the war, something to look forward to, something to think about, some cool stuff to happen. So if you want to turn your ME trilogy into a standard "kill the evil
monsters and go gome" story, that's your choice, but don't tell me it should be mine as well. For me, Control/Synthesis (the high EMS EC version) is the bad choice, the one that devalues everything that came before, thematically, symbolically, and drowns it all in an ocean of conventionalist crap.

Bioware has gone to great pains to assure us that whatever we do, it ends reasonably well. With the possible exception of Renegade Destroy, Control/Synthesis ends reasonably well, Destroy ends reasonably well, Destroy ends reasonably well, even if you Refuse, things eventually end reasonably well. We all win, the endings just show us the style of the future we are creating, the themes and memes that will dominate civilization. None of them can be objectively considered bad, you can only disagree with the dominating themes and memes.

I am not saying that Control/Synthesis is objectively bad, but I do not care for the style of future created by Control/Synthesis. I disagree with most of its dominating themes and memes, and I do not like the kind of story that choosing Control/Synthesis makes of the ME trilogy. Because it's boring and conventional. In the end, that's why I choose a different ending, with almost all of my many Shepards.

=]

Its what i think about Synthesis and Control, but its depending on you, wich way you prefer to go for your own satisfice. ^_^

#31
DirtyPhoenix

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john_sheparrd wrote...

you are trolling right??
because if not than you are crazy
synthesis is the biggest bull**** I have ever seen I can't understand how someone
can pick this ****ty choice and turn everyone to mindless husks


lol

#32
Steelcan

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Ieldra2 wrote...

@Steelcan:
The dislike of "Romanticism" and "sacred nature" is an ideological preference, while the dislike for conventionalism is a narrative preference. The themes are actually interesting, and I'd like to debate them, but they don't appear in the high EMS Destroy epilogue. I am, if you haven't noticed before, a person who appreciates most of the philosophical undercurrents of the story and the endings. 

. I take it you are not a fan of happy endings?  What themes that do appear in high EMS Destroy do you take offense with?

#33
Steelcan

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Indy_S wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
. Just because the EC slides show the aftermath doesn't mean it details every little event that might arise.  Salarian conflict with a resurgent krogan, the Terminus systems are still there, synthetic rebellions maybe.


I guess the difference is there are questions inherit in the other endings like "How do people adapt to the Reapers / Green Magic?" or "What springs up in the next cycle?" but Destroy leaves a rather vague "What happens next?" without any direction. 

. And I think that's great!

#34
Indy_S

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Steelcan wrote...

. And I think that's great!


That's fine. Some people prefer an open sandbox, sky's the limit kind of story. Some prefer a more formulaic approach but both are fine. Having a leading question is a generally good way of showing that your setting doesn't just stop after the story ends, though, and Destroy (high EMS) doesn't have one.

#35
Ieldra

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@Deaken:
I would appreciate it if you didn't edit text from my quoted posts, making it appear as if I wrote things I didn't.

#36
BleedingUranium

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Well, who of you thought the ME trilogy would end as a standard "kill the evil monsters and go home" story? Who of you all thought it *should* end that way?


Me.

#37
FOX216BC

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BleedingUranium wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Well, who of you thought the ME trilogy would end as a standard "kill the evil monsters and go home" story? Who of you all thought it *should* end that way?


Me.

Hell YeahImage IPB

#38
wright1978

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To me it is right that there is one ending which allows the player to remove the reapers and develop from the existing universe. I don't see why every ending has to tear up the universe and start anew. I don't view destroy as boring or unworthy in any way. I pretty much disagree wholehearedly with every aspect of your take of destroy but then all discussion about all endings is completely subjective. Not sure why you felt the need to devote the time to this attack, given as you say you don't like destroy/or choose destroy.

Modifié par wright1978, 14 février 2013 - 01:14 .


#39
The Night Mammoth

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FOX216BC wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Well, who of you thought the ME trilogy would end as a standard "kill the evil monsters and go home" story? Who of you all thought it *should* end that way?


Me.

Hell YeahImage IPB


I found Mass Effect to be nothing but conventional anyway. 

Certainly not a bad thing, obviously.

#40
Restrider

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The act of Destroy may be boring, however it leaves open a vast fictional universe with a lot of stories/conflicts that we could explore (as other characters).

Synthesis is: everyone is dancing under the rainbow with their care bears.
Control is: Shreapard imposes his will on everyone and sends the Reaper police, where conflict may arise.

#41
byne

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Well, you know what they say: victory is boring.

#42
RavenEyry

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BleedingUranium wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Well, who of you thought the ME trilogy would end as a standard "kill the evil monsters and go home" story? Who of you all thought it *should* end that way?


Me.

Me too. I like beating the evil monsters at the end of a story about fighting evil monsters.

#43
FOX216BC

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Restrider wrote...

.
Control is: Shreapard imposes his will on everyone and sends the Reaper police, where conflict may arise.


Image IPB

#44
TheProtheans

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A crazy Synthesis cult follower hating on Destroy.

#45
Indy_S

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byne wrote...

Well, you know what they say: victory is boring.


True. Compromise is the interesting ending, at least to me. That's one way the end of Assassin's Creed 3 didn't aggrevate me. You get what you want and something just as bad as the original threat but less immediate.

Modifié par Indy_S, 14 février 2013 - 01:34 .


#46
justafan

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Destroy is no more boring than synthesis or control. You say it yourself, they all end reasonably well. Destroy is just a different flavor of ending, but don't mistake it as status quo. The galactic community is united in a way it never has been before and has overcome the greatest threat of it's brief existence. It is fundamentally the same conclusion as control, without the element of coercion to peace that the reaper police bring.

If anything, Control would be the boring ending, since if you believe the Shepard AI will never turn against the galaxy, then things will go back to normal even faster with reaper help, yet conflict will never arise thanks to the AI's intervention.

Synthesis offers the only true change to the status quo, but there are a lot of thorny issues some people have with the morality of that decision which I don't feel like going into. Needless to say, in many circumstances people will dismiss the option of synthesis, resorting to Control or Destroy for their ending.

Destroy offers the potential for future conflict or lasting peace, for advancement beyond reaper tech, or simply a galaxy content to try and replicate reaper tech. There are so many possibilities in destroy, that it can't be considered boring by any measure.

#47
Obadiah

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Ieldra2 wrote...
...
Because it's boring and conventional. In the end, that's why I choose a different ending, with almost all of my many Shepards.

Well yeah. That's why I consider Destroy the MOST Paragon non-Renegade ending.

But, some people don't want change. To them - the kind of radical change brought about by the other three options is just too much. After watching the Council for three games, and seeing and reading how people are forced to live in the Terminus Systems I am definitely willing to upset the power structure a bit... well, a bit more than curing the Genophage, and bringing the Geth and Rachni back into the galactic comminuty did.

Even with everything Hacket says about the aftermath of Destroy, the way I see it playing out is that the Council goes back maintaining their dominance and manipulating the other races, all couched in a philosophy of working together. This is pretty much what happens after Shep saves everyone in ME1. The Council gives a "Yes, thank-you for your great contributions. We'll honor you - maybe build you a statue on the Presidium" speech, and goes back to behaving the way it did before.

Radical shifts to the status quo, brought about by Control and Synthesis, may not be the answer, but I'm willing to give them a shot.

Modifié par Obadiah, 14 février 2013 - 01:28 .


#48
Steelcan

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I'm with the ITers.

#49
FOX216BC

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 Yeah... i think  i'll stick with destroy.Image IPB

#50
Bob Garbage

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I don't think most people pick destroy because they love it.