21 réponses à ce sujet

[ckriley]

Like regardless of class?  Because I've noticed no matter which class the PC is, and no matter how well-geared and specced your tanking NPC is, the mobs will instantly attack the PC 100% of the time, no matter what you do.  I'm on my fourth playthrough right now and playing as a rogue.  My first playthrough was as a mage, and I've been playing around with a bunch of other characters too, all non-tanking classes, and the PC is attacked first all the time.

Even when you take control of the tank, like Shale for example, and lead him in first, and taunt, the mobs will usually always just go around him to INSTANTLY attack you, even though by controlling Shale, he technically becomes the PC.  I mean, the tank will eventually get aggro again, but in DAO, the developers, who I can only assume were either on crack or too heavily influenced by Wrath of the Lich King dungeons, made every encounter a zerg of sometimes up to 10 mobs.  All of them stunning and knockbacking.

And in my experience, this means that tanking is really lacking because it's then so easy to grab aggro from the tanks.  I actually played a sword and board tank in my last playthrough and it wasn't until late in the game when I had really good gear maxed out tanking talents that I didn't have any problems holding aggro.
 
It's really weird.  If you're not playing a tank, the mobs instantly attack you and ignore the tank.  Then when the tank gets aggro, or if you're playing a tank yourself, it's hard to keep aggro.  It's almost as if the developers decided to put the WOTLK designs in the game without having a paladin tank, which is designed to confront multiple mobs at once.

[swk3000]

I know almost nothing about WoW, but I have seen what you're talking about. Apparently, the PC has far more initial threat than the rest of the party simply by being the PC. It's annoying at times.

[BlackVader]

I think it's a problem of the AI and hasn't much to do with aggro. A command will always be executed once it's issued, regardless of aggro or other things. For whatever reason, the first command many enemies get seems to be "attack the PC" and they will do so at least once regardless of taunts or other stuff that should make them attack someone else. The party's tactics work similar, once an action is started, the character won't change his action even if another tactic with higher priority should be activated.

Example: A rogue has "health potion at 50%" health a first tactic and "attack nearest enemy" as second. The battle starts with the rogue at full health and the rogue runs to the nearest enemy to attack. Before he comes near enough to hit his target, he's attacked and hit by 5 archers dropping him well below 50% health. He still won't use any healing before he hasn't attacked his target at least once.

Can be pretty annoying at times, really. The tactics system should be able to interrupt actions with more important ones.

[Dragon Age1103]

I would have to say you're exaggerating considering I've only had that issue if I make my character go in first. If i press F2 & lead with my tank(Alistair or Loghain) almost all enemies immediately target him then i taunt to get the rest & keep them on me.

Do you have the latest patch? B/c honestly I do not ever have this issue, they almost always just attack the first person to head in their direction or the first to attack which is almost always my tank.

Sorry you're having trouble but if must be an AI bug with a mod or something b/c I didn't have this issue on PC or 360.

[Creature 1]

What platform are you guys playing on? I've heard of weird things like PC always getting aggro, or a character losing aggro when selected, but in my game most of the aggro seems pretty rational. I'm on PC. When battle starts typically the closest character (which will be the PC if battle starts after a cutscene due to the unalterable party formation) or the one that dealt damage first is the one attacked. If I can get them on my tank without Taunt, they attack it pretty stably except if done a large amount of damage will go after whoever hit them.



Maybe aggro is handled differently on the console? Because in PC it seems to make sense.

[soteria]

This is true after a conversation, but I don't think it is in other circumstances.

[Lambert_Feyzel]

I also think that aggro in DA:O is directed to the closest character. If you use Threaten and Taunt properly, you can manage to redirect your opponents and keep them busy with your tank, though.
However, the "tank & spank" pattern works better against single bosses: with Shale's Stone Roar + Threaten + Taunt I managed to successfully tank Revenants as well as that "female black dragon" you find later in the game (whose name I won't reveal even if spoilers are allowed here )

Modifié par Lambert_Feyzel, 10 janvier 2010 - 02:46 .

[soteria]

You're right, a lot of times they're just attacking the closest enemy. That's especially apparent with archers when you're playing a rogue--as soon as you start backstabbing all the archers in the room attack you, because you just became closer.

[LynxAQ]

LostScout wrote...

I think the default AI tactic is to attack nearest enemy. When you are travelling with your party you are in the lead and are therefore the first character who comes into visual range, so they immediately cue on you. If you are inflicting greater damage than your team, which is likely since you usually have better stats and the best equipment, they will continue to see you as a greater threat.

Half correct, half not.

The AI is indeed coded to attack the closest character when they first see you. They will then continue to carry out their first command (unless interrupted ofc) no matter what. Example: So if a henlock wants to Shield Bash you as his first command, he will continue to chase you no matter what until he gets that Shield Bash off or interrupted. You can taunt with tank, spam attack abilities with your other characters, but until that henlock shield bashes you he wont stop chasing you. (This is basically what everybody means when they talk about the crap AI in Bioware games). Solution to this is just to control your tank character so that he/she is the first thing enemies always see. Problem solved.

As for the incorrect part, amount of damage inflicted has no correlation to threat. Threat in this game is set number for every attack. Example: Every winter grasp, regardless of damage done will give you 10 threat on whatever you are attacking, Taunt will give you 200 threat etc. (NOTE: These numbers are made up and where just for example purposes.) Therefore the whole thing where people say equip better weopon on your tank for more threat is rubbish. Auto attacks do set threat amount regardless of weopon or damage. The only thing that increases this threat is the Threaten ability.

[Sidney]

Definately not true. If your PC is a fighter and you toss an inferno into a room with Morrigan the baddies will all stream by you to attack her.



You might think that because you are a mage and your ranged spells are causing the most damage and thus the most threat per the AI or you've got the best armor and weapons on your PC and he looks like the biggest threat but the AI definately doesn't target the PC.

[LynxAQ]

Sidney wrote...

Definately not true. If your PC is a fighter and you toss an inferno into a room with Morrigan the baddies will all stream by you to attack her.

You might think that because you are a mage and your ranged spells are causing the most damage and thus the most threat per the AI or you've got the best armor and weapons on your PC and he looks like the biggest threat but the AI definately doesn't target the PC.

Well starting a combat with an AoE before they see anybody is different to starting combat by sight. And the second part is what the OP is talking about and he is correct. If you start a combat with an AoE, the computer picks you as its "target" despite not seeing you. Different situations altogether.

And threat isnt based on damage in this game.

[oFallenAngel]

LynxAQ wrote...
Well starting a combat with an AoE before they see anybody is different to starting combat by sight. And the second part is what the OP is talking about and he is correct. If you start a combat with an AoE, the computer picks you as its "target" despite not seeing you. Different situations altogether.

And threat isnt based on damage in this game.

Er, yes it is. Threat is still proportional to damage, even if specific talents also got fixed numbers of extra threat they generate, that is just in addition to the threat generated by damage. Oh and Sidney's example holds true even *during* a fight, not just starting a fight with an AOE, you'll simply pull the mobs off your tank if you toss too much damage on them(assuming they survive).

Modifié par oFallenAngel, 11 janvier 2010 - 01:03 .

[maxernst]

I find my PC doesn't get attacked as much as Alistair and Dog do. And it's very, very rare for anyone to attack Morrigan.

[wwwwowwww]

just let someone else lead and that will solve the problem i think

[asaiasai]

I to be honest have not had this problem, but i did play WoW and was a solid tank in WoW so i do understand aggro management. When i sword and board i will hold the party back usually out of sight from the mobs, then i run in aggro everything, taunt, then release the party to come in after i have established control of the aggro. When i play any other non tanking class i do the same thing i just control the tank which is usually Shale. Shale goes in, aggros everything, taunt, i switch back to my main and release the party to enter in the fight.



The biggest issue is to build your tank correctly, i have always believed that the tank should be strong enough to survive the first 30 secs of a fight without any intervention. The is critical as the tank needs that time to establish aggro control, and your party will use that time to position themselves with clear lines of sight, and clear target designation. I have my party tactics set to all party members except healer attack target of main character. I use the focus fire method and usually start on the weaker targets first working my way up. Minimize the dps your tank is recieving by weeding out the weak first.



Asai

[Treason1]

What difficulty are you playing on? On Easy-Hard, most of the time, yes, mobs attack the first character they see. If you're leading with the PC, then they'll initially go for them, then after taking a swipe or two (sometimes none), they'll refocus on the party member with the highest armor/threat.



On Nightmare, they'll target the party member that has the highest amount of threat on each individual mob. They won't automatically target the heaviest armored party member.

[phordicus]

the only answer is "yes, sometimes a creature's first priority is to attack the main character". this was an AI cheat used in BG as well (always hilarious when non-invisibility-detecting creatures would huddle around a stealthed PC). this is proven by the numerous times i've kept the MC around the corner from the enemy location, sent in the other three, and still a few mobs go attack a thing they have yet to even see that was neither first (or ever...) nor any kind of combat threat (i've tested with no weapons equipped on non-mage MCs).

it's only occassional not any kind of common AI script template. i just rp and chalk it up to my expanding reputation as a badass and they recognize my companions.

Modifié par phordicus, 12 janvier 2010 - 07:55 .

[Sidney]

phordicus wrote...

the only answer is "yes, sometimes a creature's first priority is to attack the main character". this was an AI cheat used in BG as well (always hilarious when non-invisibility-detecting creatures would huddle around a stealthed PC). this is proven by the numerous times i've kept the MC around the corner from the enemy location, sent in the other three, and still a few mobs go attack a thing they have yet to even see that was neither first (or ever...) nor any kind of combat threat (i've tested with no weapons equipped on non-mage MCs).

This might not be an "attack the PC" logic as much as a "attack the biggest threat". The bad guys "see" the whole party. I've always had mages toss long range spells out of LoS and then run away long before the baddies can see them. They'll run right by the visible party to attack the unseen mage around the corner. If your PC has the best stuff and is the biggest threat that's who they'll go after even if he's not in LoS.