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[HELLHOUND_ROCKO]

DragonRacer wrote...

HELLHOUND_ROCKO wrote...

so, BroJo still finds it "not unfair" that a pre-orderer like me gets for ever cap-penalized for having played the single player mode first and twice before starting with the multiplayer mode - in the good will thinking that the EA logo on the game stands for decent game companys work where redicolous bullsh** like this either never happens or at least gets fixed afterwards
- not knowing by then that i do not deal with a decent game company here - but instead with Bioware and their first little multiplayer experiment!

i initially woke up on valentines day to "see how much bioware loves us" with officiall DLC-announcement and such, so i can go further happy gaming ME3-MP - but instead of DLC-announcement i found this present-box with my name on it after "from Bioware", with nothing but this piece of stinking sh** in it - i am so frustrated about this treatment,
i am outta here for now, going to play stupid "shoot each other" with generation violence porn kids that do not know what they are doing either way in BF3 instead of letting me anger further by getting serious treated like this from BW today.

Hey, Hellhound -

Consider this, fellow PS3 player.

For the first three operations, PS3 players could not participate because of something or other between BioWare and Sony. So, guess what? That was two commendation packs (the third operation gave no commendation packs) that we initially didn't get. We got to sit here and watch the XBox and PC players have all the fun.

Guess what happened? This, as you call it, "indecent" game company, once they finally were able to allow us to participate, then GAVE EVERY SINGLE PS3 PLAYER THE TWO COMMENDATION PACKS FROM THOSE MISSED OPERATIONS.

They didn't have to do that. In fact, a bunch of XBox and PC players gave BioWare a bunch of grief because they felt we didn't earn those commendation packs.

So, don't you even DARE come in here with that sort of argument, sir. I suggest you curb your attitude.

 
  
nice answer post, sure - do not disagree with you on that - but: 
you obviously missed the one primary point i had in my post - no, it was not "how i feel treated" or like you called it: "my altitude" - that came after it as a reflection of my reaction i had due to discovering just today, that one point i made clear of first: 
 
"cap penalty" 
 
- because a player that is randomly (cuz he not extensively played SP first) and mistakenly (like in the meantime admired by Mr. Johnson, BroJo the BatSent - but with a lot of CSR  (and i am glad to hear it by the way, it sounds a lot better than "do not think it is unfair"...)) allowed to maintain a higher cap in whatever 
than almost every other player - does !ATTENTION! NOT get a bonus - but instead everyone else gets penalised 
 
- because it is a CAP we are talking about here - and not a "how have you been treated in free2play !contest!" - 
 
so 1.: 
it seems like a very MP-mode-beginner-dev-like poor but nevertheless huge mistake to implement such an error in a MP-game in the first place 
 
2.: 
it is an even larger mistake to not fix this afterwards (and that a larger community ranting about this never had taken place, what is what caused BW to 4real not having any issue to recognise there - is only because (as it seems to me) just so few of all ME3 players and even of all BSN'ers noticed its sheer existence ever before - but that does not make any point of BW's error chain here any righter!) 
 
and while 3.: 
i made the mistake to think the EA logo stud for a high quality product enough to either not making mistakes like this or at least fixing them afterwards, so day1 players and everyone else does not get for ever penalised for having played singleplayer mode before multiplayer mode or jumped to the game later 
 
(and that is it - that is the whole point: getting forever cap penalised for having played singleplayer mode first or jumped to the game later - a really stupid little mistake that should never be there - but at least not endure of course - it ain't anything bonus to a few - it is !cap! we are dealing with here, so it is an artificial added penalty to everyone who is not allowed to reach it anymore without taking the steps to erase the old, now over-caps!) 
 
they were starting to (very politician-like by the way - that is never a good sing though) state thoughts about how much or less unfairness lies in the result, instead of admiring the mistake - and that is what finally made me rant out completely - but at least that point had been proper resolved in the meantime 
(due to the official admits - and me shooting some "generation violence-porn kids" in BF3, for the first time again since two months - pretty good K/D though that 3 1hour matches: about 5,0 average - made me feel a lot more relaxed .  

[Saints]

This thread has gone for 8 hours and nothing has been accomplished.

[Lord Rosario]

Computron2000 wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...
It's not, and that's what makes this such a hard case for Bioware. They take it away? Not fair to those that earned it.  They let everyone earn it? Might seriously unbalance the game. They just let those that have it keep it and those that don't get nothing? Not fair to everyone that didn't earn it.

Question is, which to do?

Cap it at 1. Thats the fairest. Most unpopular but being really fair to all involved is always like that. Everyone even the newbies get affected

So everyone gets a total of 1 missile per match? More if they use cooinciding equipment? Fair? Yes. About as fair as nerfing every single gun, power by half, and consumable by half.

[Knockingbr4in]

saints 944 wrote...

This thread has gone for 8 hours and nothing has been accomplished.

Like most of BSN. That doesn't tell much.

[Nydus Templar]

Everyone had an opportunity to get these excess consumables in the same way that everyone has had an opportunity to get all of the promotional weapons.

If you were not present when it was available, then you didn't get them. The only major difference is that there's not going to be a future event to get those upgrades. Where as the N7 weekends are going to keep going and give out commendation packs.

That's honestly the long and short of it. When Bioware makes a mistake, they don't try and destroy everyone who benefited as long as its not an abuse of the game, just like Bryan said. It makes perfect sense.

They didn't go back and deduct credits from players who destroyed games with Geth Infiltrators wielding the old Krysae. They simply tended the issue, deemed a mistaken on Bioware's part which wasn't abusive (regardless of personal opinion), and let things go as they may.

Additionally, on top of the excessively small number of people who have this, it doesn't really grant a massively unfair advantage. They have to expend missile they can't recover from ammo boxes, forcing them to spend credits to get back from packs. This is markedly different from something like the old Falcon/Krysae which could be replenished without expending credits.

Also,

DragonRacer wrote...

Also, just a friendly reminder to everyone in the thread - keep this nice and civil, please. Do NOT start using heated and/or sarcastic language with each other. That typically just leads to fights and not actual discussion.

Do not dogpile on each other or on Bryan. Would rather not repeat such an incident so soon.

Carry on.

^ This. Do not test the wrath of the Ninja Stan. I hear he throws shurikens made of ban. That's right, he throws entire submachine guns made of ban.  He may have already covered it, but no harm in saying it thrice.

Modifié par Nydus Templar, 15 février 2013 - 01:12 .

[jm2207]

Enough of this "people paid for it, people earned it" stuff. They earned/paid for a slot in a pack. If you're honestly going to make the argument that people were aiming SPECIFICALLY to max their consumable caps out in the first three weeks with no reason to believe it would ever be lowered, I call BS. Take it away, give them a rare or uncommon card or whatever it was, tell them to enjoy the 11 months they had with it, and say we're balanced. I aimed for a Typhoon then it got nerfed. Oh well. Arguing that it's not fair to them misses the actual definition of fair.

[Saints]

On Valentines day. Well done.

[Zjarcal]

Linkinator wrote...

i am sick of "solo artists" who wreck the multiplayer because they want want want! its because of them few people actually want to have fun and play together

mass effect 3 is not call of duty it is NOT everyman for themself we are a fan base community we should be enjoying ourselves kicking reaper ass and looking out for each other

when i play mass effect 3 on xbox i try to chat to everyone, its just 4 random people afterall, we are mature adults here are we not? there comes a time in your life where you have to speak to complete strangers to gain any kind of social life.

I think it's fairly obvious a LARGE portion of this community isn't mature at all.

Also, what does your last paragraph have to do with this thread? 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 15 février 2013 - 01:18 .

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

The players who played at the beginning technically did not get an unfair advantage, every player had the capability to receive the same benefits.

This is a co-op game, there is no unfair advantage to these people, I would think you would more likely want these people on your team.

Bryan, with that in mind, are actual fixes to the unsung weapons out of the realm of possibility?

[Cyonan]

jm2207 wrote...

Enough of this "people paid for it, people earned it" stuff. They earned/paid for a slot in a pack. If you're honestly going to make the argument that people were aiming SPECIFICALLY to max their consumable caps out in the first three weeks with no reason to believe it would ever be lowered, I call BS. Take it away, give them a rare or uncommon card or whatever it was, tell them to enjoy the 11 months they had with it, and say we're balanced. I aimed for a Typhoon then it got nerfed. Oh well. Arguing that it's not fair to them misses the actual definition of fair.

Nerfing is not the same as taking it away. It is still not fair to the people who legitimately obtained those cap increases if you want to argue fairness.

Let's ignore that angle for a minute though and look at it another way:

This isn't something they can just flick a switch and have done in the blink of an eye. Somebody needs to write the code to take the items away from these people, it needs to be tested in an isolated environment so you don't accidentally take anything away you shouldn't have, a new pack needs to be created or a system designed to allow you to award between 1 and 20 Spectre Packs to a single account needs to be coded and again tested and implemented via a patch most likely(I'm guessing that the system is not currently designed to award a single Spectre Pack to a single account for free).

How should this be a higher priority fix than something like the Collectors PS3 freezing bug?

[Bolo Xia]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Alright to make a farther wiping statement

The extended caps were present from March 6 (launch day) until March 27th (the day we fixed it server side).

The amount of users that were affected were small, it is especially small now. I for the record do have above the cap, I have 6 thermal clips.

At the time (nearly a year ago), we decided that those who received the packs with extended capacities would not have them taken away. That was the decision we made, and it is one that largely no one complained about until this month, I think this might fall under a statute of limitations.

Furthermore there is plenty of things that have been done that players can say benefited the past players more than now and the players now etc.

Lets look, at launch there was no such thing as PSPs, no such thing as JEP, no such thing as Reserves/Arsenal. Character cards were not cap'd, level IV consumables didn't exist etc.

Lets say that less than 1% of the users currently playing have extended capacities, do you really want them dictating how the game is played? We have heard a lot of people argue against exactly that.

Another option is to take it away from those that have it currently, which I dont know about you guys but if suddenly after 11 months my stuff was taken away just because of "popular opinion". I would be fairly upset.

Game landscapes change over time.

sounds like a good enough answer to me.

to everyone else:
people debate and discuss things because they want to know why something is the way it is and has nothing to do with complaining, whining, and so forth.

alot of mature debates went on in this thread.
so should we say the thread was a failure due to a few bad apples?

i think BW or i should Bryan handled the issue with just about the only smart option there is out of all of them.

but at least we know why it was handled that way.
if i put myself in their shoes it then it makes perfect sense to do the same thing.

[ryoldschool]

jm2207 wrote...

Enough of this "people paid for it, people earned it" stuff. They earned/paid for a slot in a pack. If you're honestly going to make the argument that people were aiming SPECIFICALLY to max their consumable caps out in the first three weeks with no reason to believe it would ever be lowered, I call BS. Take it away, give them a rare or uncommon card or whatever it was, tell them to enjoy the 11 months they had with it, and say we're balanced. I aimed for a Typhoon then it got nerfed. Oh well. Arguing that it's not fair to them misses the actual definition of fair.

lol, as I posted before, at the time I would have preferred 3 UR unlocks instead of three extra ammo pack capacity.  But I was no gold player back then and I actually paid for quite a few packs with real money.

if you want to take the extra capacity back now, fine.  Just give me 3 UR unlocks from the next dlc and we can call it even

[MindAssassin]

It's embarassing that people are bringing this up as an issue. Absolutely embarassing.

[Knockingbr4in]

Cyonan wrote...

Nerfing is not the same as taking it away. It is still not fair to the people who legitimately obtained those cap increases if you want to argue fairness.

Let's ignore that angle for a minute though and look at it another way:

This isn't something they can just flick a switch and have done in the blink of an eye. Somebody needs to write the code to take the items away from these people, it needs to be tested in an isolated environment so you don't accidentally take anything away you shouldn't have, a new pack needs to be created or a system designed to allow you to award between 1 and 20 Spectre Packs to a single account needs to be coded and again tested and implemented via a patch most likely(I'm guessing that the system is not currently designed to award a single Spectre Pack to a single account for free).

How should this be a higher priority fix than something like the Collectors PS3 freezing bug?

It souldn't be, and that's not for debate. But since you're jumping into a touchy subject I can't help but mention that I have yet to see an aknowledgment by BioWare (i.e. a post) about those freezes.

More on-topic.. If anything, the fairest manner to deal with those consumables cap IMO would be to do like they did with that extra gel and ops but at a rate dramatically faster than two a year.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Alright to make a farther wiping statement

The extended caps were present from March 6 (launch day) until March 27th (the day we fixed it server side).

The amount of users that were affected were small, it is especially small now. I for the record do have above the cap, I have 6 thermal clips.

At the time (nearly a year ago), we decided that those who received the packs with extended capacities would not have them taken away. That was the decision we made, and it is one that largely no one complained about until this month, I think this might fall under a statute of limitations.

Furthermore there is plenty of things that have been done that players can say benefited the past players more than now and the players now etc.

Lets look, at launch there was no such thing as PSPs, no such thing as JEP, no such thing as Reserves/Arsenal. Character cards were not cap'd, level IV consumables didn't exist etc.

Lets say that less than 1% of the users currently playing have extended capacities, do you really want them dictating how the game is played? We have heard a lot of people argue against exactly that.

Another option is to take it away from those that have it currently, which I dont know about you guys but if suddenly after 11 months my stuff was taken away just because of "popular opinion". I would be fairly upset.

Game landscapes change over time.

Bryan, earlier you argued that having 5 additional missiles in a match does not grant players an unfair advantage, because this is a co-op game.  If you're going to make that argument, I don't see how you can then argue that ANYTHING gives a player an unfair advantage in this game.  To take the argument to its logical conclusion, it would be literally IMPOSSIBLE to have an unfair advantage over someone else in this game for any reason.

Yet, we're told that various exploits grant a player an unfair advantage over others, and thus taking advantage of these exploits is cheating.  But I don't see the rationale here.  If having additional missiles doesn't give someone an unfair advantage, then missile glitching doesn't give someone an an unfair advantage.  Therefore, the whole basis for BioWare's rules against cheating does not logically apply.

[GreatBlueHeron]

What about the people who paid for *item* (a gaming mouse?) so they could unlock the collector rifle...has anyone complained about how fair it is to the people who paid for an exclusive weapon only to see that now everyone can potentially unlock it? Anyone want to give their collector rifles back in fairness? It'd be the right thing to do, but I don't want to give it up. And those with the higher cap shouldn't have to give it up. Is it fair? No. The only solution is to leave it the way it is, otherwise there wouldn't be enough challenge at higher difficulties. I sometimes come across pugs where EVERYONE knows how to nuke spawns....and quite frankly it's boring. Give everyone at least 10 and I might as well stand in a corner. No thanks.

[Lord Rosario]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Alright to make a farther wiping statement

The extended caps were present from March 6 (launch day) until March 27th (the day we fixed it server side).

The amount of users that were affected were small, it is especially small now. I for the record do have above the cap, I have 6 thermal clips.

At the time (nearly a year ago), we decided that those who received the packs with extended capacities would not have them taken away. That was the decision we made, and it is one that largely no one complained about until this month, I think this might fall under a statute of limitations.

Furthermore there is plenty of things that have been done that players can say benefited the past players more than now and the players now etc.

Lets look, at launch there was no such thing as PSPs, no such thing as JEP, no such thing as Reserves/Arsenal. Character cards were not cap'd, level IV consumables didn't exist etc.

Lets say that less than 1% of the users currently playing have extended capacities, do you really want them dictating how the game is played? We have heard a lot of people argue against exactly that.

Another option is to take it away from those that have it currently, which I dont know about you guys but if suddenly after 11 months my stuff was taken away just because of "popular opinion". I would be fairly upset.

Game landscapes change over time.

Bryan, earlier you argued that having 5 additional missiles in a match does not grant players an unfair advantage, because this is a co-op game.  If you're going to make that argument, I don't see how you can then argue that ANYTHING gives a player an unfair advantage in this game.  To take the argument to its logical conclusion, it would be literally IMPOSSIBLE to have an unfair advantage over someone else in this game for any reason.

Yet, we're told that various exploits grant a player an unfair advantage over others, and thus taking advantage of these exploits is cheating.  But I don't see the rationale here.  If having additional missiles doesn't give someone an unfair advantage, then missile glitching doesn't give someone an an unfair advantage.  Therefore, the whole basis for BioWare's rules against cheating does not logically apply.

Unfair advantage would be something that makes someone unjustly better than everyone else. Missile glitching was an exploit, not an unfair advantage. Everyone could missile glitch, but of course, it ended in a ban. Now, would you say that you have an 'unfair advantage' over someone who just started playing yesterday? You have many many more choices in weapons, characters, mods, equipment, etc. BUT that does not make it UNFAIR. You earned that advantage, right? Same concept.

[Uchimura]

Anyone around for the D3 beta title? Oh man.. lot of rage and trolling going on then.

Exclusivity (items in this case, possibly banners) in online games causes little splits in the community. The CAR and BF3 Soldier were exclusive for a while, but they didn't really give any advantage, just flavor. Hopefully exclusives won't extend beyond that in ME4.

[Kingston Atticus]

HELLHOUND_ROCKO wrote...

so, BroJo still finds it "not unfair" that a pre-orderer like me gets for ever cap-penalized for having played the single player mode first and twice before starting with the multiplayer mode - in the good will thinking that the EA logo on the game stands for decent game companys work where redicolous bullsh** like this either never happens or at least gets fixed afterwards
- not knowing by then that i do not deal with a decent game company here - but instead with Bioware and their first little multiplayer experiment!

i initially woke up on valentines day to "see how much bioware loves us" with officiall DLC-announcement and such, so i can go further happy gaming ME3-MP - but instead of DLC-announcement i found this present-box with my name on it after "from Bioware", with nothing but this piece of stinking sh** in it - i am so frustrated about this treatment,
i am outta here for now, going to play stupid "shoot each other" with generation violence porn kids that do not know what they are doing either way in BF3 instead of letting me anger further by getting serious treated like this from BW today.

  I spent the first week or so strictly in SP as well, so I do NOT have any of the extra consumables. I didn't even know of the first community operation so I didn't do that. The fact that I did NOT get those extra caps or that promo weapon is FINE. I did NOT buy the game for LOTS of extra goodiies. I bought it because it is a great series. I got the Collectors Edition because a metal case sits better on a shelf and won't break as easy.

   Besides how often does a TEAM need those 5 extra missiles? And no whining about how it would make soloing easier. Yes you can solo and there is now a banner for it, but MP was made with a 4 person team in mind and 4 people with all ten missiles each was way too easy and if the gear existed back then, they would have lowered the max cap to like 3.
 
 then there is the fact that Bioware is being lectured for being mean, when they are one of the VERY FEW minorities who gave us MP dlc for free instead of making EVERYONE pay atleast 10$ for EACH and EVERY mp dlc.

[Lord Rosario]

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

What about the people who paid for *item* (a gaming mouse?) so they could unlock the collector rifle...has anyone complained about how fair it is to the people who paid for an exclusive weapon only to see that now everyone can potentially unlock it? Anyone want to give their collector rifles back in fairness? It'd be the right thing to do, but I don't want to give it up. And those with the higher cap shouldn't have to give it up. Is it fair? No. The only solution is to leave it the way it is, otherwise there wouldn't be enough challenge at higher difficulties. I sometimes come across pugs where EVERYONE knows how to nuke spawns....and quite frankly it's boring. Give everyone at least 10 and I might as well stand in a corner. No thanks.

Question. How do you profit from a match that you just blew 10+ missiles on? To get them back, you'll need 2+ Jumbo Equipment packs which is 66000 credits per match at least. More if they use armored compartments to use more missiles. You could let everyone carry ALL their missiles, but that doesn't mean it's worth using them all.

Also, you made the point that people that baught a special mouse got the Collector Assault Rifle, then, they released it to the public later. How is that any different from releasing the 10 missile cap to everyone else? Besides of course that buying the item that got the CAR cost money and the added missiles did not? Releasing the higher missile cap is perfectly fair because it's been done before with the CAR towards those that had spent real money on it.

Heck, getting a CAR to X before it was released would cost $300 deppending on what you baught. Apparently, giving something worth $300+ to the public for free is fine, but gving something that someone worked for earlier, for equal amount of work later, isn't. <_<

[Kingston Atticus]

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

What about the people who paid for *item* (a gaming mouse?) so they could unlock the collector rifle...has anyone complained about how fair it is to the people who paid for an exclusive weapon only to see that now everyone can potentially unlock it? Anyone want to give their collector rifles back in fairness? It'd be the right thing to do, but I don't want to give it up. And those with the higher cap shouldn't have to give it up. Is it fair? No. The only solution is to leave it the way it is, otherwise there wouldn't be enough challenge at higher difficulties. I sometimes come across pugs where EVERYONE knows how to nuke spawns....and quite frankly it's boring. Give everyone at least 10 and I might as well stand in a corner. No thanks.

Exactly EVERYBODY cough up your Raiders and argus and indras and a few other weapons because they were preorder ONLY dlc! You know what I am fine with them doing what THEY want with the game,it is THEIRS anyway. We ALL payed for the single player mp was a last minute added experemintal bonus. They could just say "Since you will NOT quit whining about it, we WILL shut off the servers Monday!" Will they? Probably not because they DO care, but there ARE some things like this that are dumb to argue about.

[TODD 5184]

All I'm saying is it would be nice to have a 10 cap missiles legit. Or Hell extra ops packs when they normally don't seem to work off host. Even on those levels where the ammo boxes only give 1 grenade, those extra thermal packs would be nice.

All this time, I thought this N7 Link kid was hacking or cheating or something fishy, and turns out its not just legit, but Brojo straight says "working as intended" (though not in those exact words, but you know what I mean).

I've got almost 700 hours of MP time, and still no capped manifest, thanks to a sh*tty store system and I've spent real money just to support some of the DLC, and I'm grateful for the BW support this game is still getting, but come on... Really?

[Hippeh]

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

What about the people who paid for *item* (a gaming mouse?) so they could unlock the collector rifle...has anyone complained about how fair it is to the people who paid for an exclusive weapon only to see that now everyone can potentially unlock it? Anyone want to give their collector rifles back in fairness? It'd be the right thing to do, but I don't want to give it up. And those with the higher cap shouldn't have to give it up. Is it fair? No. The only solution is to leave it the way it is, otherwise there wouldn't be enough challenge at higher difficulties. I sometimes come across pugs where EVERYONE knows how to nuke spawns....and quite frankly it's boring. Give everyone at least 10 and I might as well stand in a corner. No thanks.

I don't think the exclusivity promises of those items ever applied to multiplayer.  Single player, yeah, but not multiplayer.  

I honestly can't believe there are this many people upset that a couple people scattered across the world can fire a couple of extra missiles or get a couple more clip refills. 

[Koenig888]

If everyone has a 10 rockets cap, MP would turn into a boring nuke-fest

If you need 10 of each consumables to solo, then I suggest you try an easier difficulty.

It is not feasible to take away the higher caps from players who already have them. Anyway, there are not many of them and these are usually the elites. I agree with Bryan that the community should view solos using more than the usual number of consumables as not valid (for e-peen purposes).