399 réponses à ce sujet

[Vubica]

Actually no, Ive been playing since round release, but work has kept me on and off at times so my ops/missle/thermal/med gel is all over the place with diff quantities, so dunno i find it kinda fun

[HolyAvenger]

JLoco11 wrote...

Opinions usually involve some form of explanation or motive.

"Game balance" is a cop out explanation.  It sounds good on paper, but in the end is a meaningless and empty statement that everyone wants.  That's not exactly the basis of a true opinion as opposed to just an empty statement.

But if we just go with the this theory of balance, why did we get gear bonuses that add additional rockets?  Doesn't that throw off the balance you claim?  Because let's face it, this issue isn't about thermal clips, medi gel or ops packs.  The focus of this thread is about rockets.

I find rocketing of spawns boring and would not like that to become normal in my PUG games. Farming runs are a whole different story. I don't really do many of those as, guess what, I get bored.

At least with AC V you're usually forced to give up something in order to bring them along. Under your idea there is no cost to doing so.

So yeah, to preserve some of the challenge and fun of my PUGging experience, I don't want a larger number of rockets to become norm. Heck I'd advocate for removal of rockets altogether. Gels even. Lets have some real teamwork

[MuKen]

Take them away, compensate one commendation pack for each extra level they had. Everyone's happy and the game is balanced again.

[ryanshowseason3]

TheThirdRace wrote...
Either you have a system where everything's equal or you don't. As far as I know, Bioware made it pretty clear that it's the former.

I don't believe anyone has ever said that. Theres not a whole lot of equality in a RNG based system either. Your equipment  gives you advantages. Not everyone has the same equipment. They can spend time or money to get better equipment. We don't all drop in as equals to a PUG game. They all basically have a promotional advantage, just like how the CAR used to be.

TheThirdRace wrote...

You say they spend money to get an advantage. What really is this advantage? Bioware made a RNG store so you couldn't buy a specific item, you have to pay credits or real money to buy a pack. So technically, they paid for a pack and whatever is in it is up to chance, no guarantees. The only advantage you get for paying is to get your things faster. You never get better things that nobody else can get, you just get them faster. That is the advantage of paying, the only advantage there is actually if you don't benefit from a glitch.

Yes and they payed an exorbitant amount to make sure they eventually got their 10 consumable limit. Faster than anyone else would have at the time.

TheThirdRace wrote...
Following your logic, if I paid to get a pack and got the Krysae before the nerf, it shouldn't have been touched by the nerf because I paid real money for it. Maybe some people had it at level X, but it still got nerfed into oblivion. Why is that? Why didn't they use the same logic as with the cap on missiles and apply the nerf only to players who doesn't have the Krysae? Why no one have seen an exception even if they paid money? Because the system is done in a way where everyone abide by the same rules, everyone has the same chance to get the same gun.

Not true. It isn't the same. It is an interesting point but the difference here is that everyone across the board was affected, no one was given any consolation. Krysae was considered game breakingly powerful and could be obtained by everyone eventually, and many people already had it, the problem was too widespread to simply stop giving it out, nor did they have that option for a gun given by the system. Not that it would matter. At I or X it was still overpowered. For this issue only a select few very generous customers would be affected ever, and most didn't get to the levels of 10 for each consumable. Do they have such a large impact on the landscape of the game that it is worth penalizing them over? No. Did the krysae? Yes. Is it worth the man hours creating queries and running them over the entire database of users just to find the small percentage in order to edit them? I don't know. The krysae hit everyone forever because it was that large of a problem. There is a difference there if you think about it. Also as a company would you like to discourage users who spend freely like that? Sure someone spent money on the krysae, but not hundreds of dollars and regardless it changed the game landscape. 50 people with more consumables are NOT making an impact.

TheThirdRace wrote...

As stated before, they paid for a pack. There were no guarantees to get that +1 to missile cap and if it becomes unbalanced there's also no guarantees they will not nerf it (same as guns). Technically, Bioware could give you 1 PSP as reimbursement and be done with you. I simply gave a trade-off that is "valuable" because other players won't be able to match their new advantage for a good while.

As for giving them garbage and taking their cake, I'd say only this. In the real world, if the government send you a check every month and they realize they made a mistake, they're gonna ask you to reimburse them all the money. They won't let you keep it, some will even charge you interest because you should have told them when it happened the first time.

Bad analogy this isn't a welfare check, nothing was given for free. They paid for their cake. And you the neighbor don't like that since they seemed to have gotten one of the special cakes only in limited supply. Key word here they paid for it, and now some people want to complain to the bakery that they should not have it and half of it should be smashed so it looks like theirs. The krysae was an issue of massive cakes being sold to everyone at the same price at an unsustainable level so everyone's cake was changed to fit more with sustainable supply and demand.

TheThirdRace wrote...
All in all, it's not a case where it's essential to correct this thing.
It's not game breaking and it certainly doesn't affect my game at all.
It's just a matter of principle, Bioware made a mistake back then and I
think it should be fixed.

They did fix it by not giving it out anymore and the landscape of the game was saved. The hundred odd anomalies are not worth the customer service backlash. They really don't affect you. They followed the rules back then and they follow them now and they don't affect the landscape of MP.

What we really need is more events that raise the caps, they should be a regular thing. This MP won't last forever, it would be nice for these capcity increases to come monthly or something.

[TheThirdRace]

ryanshowseason3 wrote...

...

They did fix it by not giving it out anymore and the landscape of the game was saved. The hundred odd anomalies are not worth the customer service backlash. They really don't affect you. They followed the rules back then and they follow them now and they don't affect the landscape of MP.

What we really need is more events that raise the caps, they should be a regular thing. This MP won't last forever, it would be nice for these capcity increases to come monthly or something.

We clearly disagree, but that's fine for me.

Bioware (and Bryan Johnson in this thread) stated that they won't increase the cap to 10 for sure because it would trivialise the game. There's litterally no chance ever that normal people will get to that cap.

What I don't understand is you acknowledge Bioware changed the rules because it was overpowered, but you find it ok that a minority aren't touched by that rule because it's only a small percentage of the players. But if that small minority of players team up together and use 52 missiles, it's not overpowered...

In other words, 4 normal people use 52 missiles = overpowerd & bad, but 4 people from the minority use 52 missiles = ok.

Is it because they're playing just with each other? Because you know, missile glitchers were more often than not cheating in games with friends to avoid being caught... That doesn't make it right...

For the record, I don't consider having 10 missiles a cheat since people got there legally, but I do think the fact they can do a game with 52 missiles shouldn't be allowed either, even if they only play with friends... It's a case of balance of the game, possibilities that "break" the game should be rectified when they're discovered, as simple as that.

[Djarknaein]

Take them away or give it to everyone either way ppl will complain all bioware can do is be faie to everyone and in this case they arw not. Things get taken away or given every balance change day. I don't see why this is different. As for early playera not having jeps and psps in the beginning do they not have them now? I don't understand why a player that join early as more advantage then one that join later on...

[Kinom001]

Can anyone show where anyone with the 10 missile limit has ruined the game for anyone else, or is this just a case of rampant jealousy? This complaining about something that doesn't even impact anyone in this thread is just petty.

[ryanshowseason3]

TheThirdRace wrote...

ryanshowseason3 wrote...

...

They did fix it by not giving it out anymore and the landscape of the game was saved. The hundred odd anomalies are not worth the customer service backlash. They really don't affect you. They followed the rules back then and they follow them now and they don't affect the landscape of MP.

What we really need is more events that raise the caps, they should be a regular thing. This MP won't last forever, it would be nice for these capcity increases to come monthly or something.

We clearly disagree, but that's fine for me.

Bioware (and Bryan Johnson in this thread) stated that they won't increase the cap to 10 for sure because it would trivialise the game. There's litterally no chance ever that normal people will get to that cap.

What I don't understand is you acknowledge Bioware changed the rules because it was overpowered, but you find it ok that a minority aren't touched by that rule because it's only a small percentage of the players. But if that small minority of players team up together and use 52 missiles, it's not overpowered...

In other words, 4 normal people use 52 missiles = overpowerd & bad, but 4 people from the minority use 52 missiles = ok.

Is it because they're playing just with each other? Because you know, missile glitchers were more often than not cheating in games with friends to avoid being caught... That doesn't make it right...

For the record, I don't consider having 10 missiles a cheat since people got there legally, but I do think the fact they can do a game with 52 missiles shouldn't be allowed either, even if they only play with friends... It's a case of balance of the game, possibilities that "break" the game should be rectified when they're discovered, as simple as that.

How do we know such a game has or ever will exist. I doubt there is a 10 missile cap club. I doubt I've ever come across one person who has it. What makes you think they know each other? Or that they all have 10 maximum. They might be like Bryan with 6 of something. Big deal.

Also the resources required to keep up a steady supply to use 10 missiles in one game are more than it is worth. You're talkin 2 JEPs. which is most of your gold rewards and not even 52 missiles is enough to trivialize a platinum game. You'd still blow all of them and still need some more even if blasting 2 bosses at a time.

Not to mention the game would become boring if it were just a missile fest. Honestly I don't envy them. The items might become a crutch rather than an advantage.

Modifié par ryanshowseason3, 15 février 2013 - 09:53 .

[ryanshowseason3]

Kinom001 wrote...

Can anyone show where anyone with the 10 missile limit has ruined the game for anyone else, or is this just a case of rampant jealousy? This complaining about something that doesn't even impact anyone in this thread is just petty.

This is what I suspect mostly.

They have bigger cake than me, must smash it. They are not allowed to enjoy it.

[N7 Panda]

ryanshowseason3 wrote...

Kinom001 wrote...

Can anyone show where anyone with the 10 missile limit has ruined the game for anyone else, or is this just a case of rampant jealousy? This complaining about something that doesn't even impact anyone in this thread is just petty.

This is what I suspect mostly.

They have bigger cake than me, must smash it. They are not allowed to enjoy it.

In co-op games it makes no difference - the people who have the 10 missile limit have been around for since launch probably, and so wouldn't be a dick and just missile everything.

Solo games however, having 10 missiles is a HUGE advantage.

[Antaresss]

AFAIK the limit is 5/6/6/5 now. How can you have more than that?

[killer of stars]

Antaresss wrote...

AFAIK the limit is 5/6/6/5 now. How can you have more than that?

For a time when the game launch the cap was higher.

[Nethershadow]

Deerber wrote...

To the OP.

I'd just like to say... If you got "inspired" to make this thread by Link... Just know that you wouldn't be able to do what he does even with 50 missiles.

No this really has nothing to do with Link nor was I inspired by his amazing video to create this as ive known about it for a little while, just never got around to posing it til now. 

Obviously you think I'm attacking Link due to your mockery, but again I have only respect for link who also happens to have the same favorite character as me, this topic is just about the principle of fairness or equality. 

It doesn't matter how many people have it or still active, it is just about the principle.  

Also I am not that emo about it or freaking out over it, 
So peeps please debate but don't get to heated over it. 

@ Bryan Johnson

What was fair and equal in the past is no longer is no longer fair and equal now. 

[Nethershadow]

killer of stars wrote...

Antaresss wrote...

AFAIK the limit is 5/6/6/5 now. How can you have more than that?

For a time when the game launch the cap was higher.

Ok so I would like to go back to the patch where the krysae was extra super since it was legal at one point and since we are apparently allowed to have things from the past even if they were changed, I want that version. 

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

Booboo on your whittle knee?

Hear, take a Cobra!

....



This is a trivial thread, trivial concerns, primarily displaying jealousy. I have 5 rockets, would love 10 for solos, but I get by fine.

[killer of stars]

Nethershadow I agree with you. It's the principle, something it seems a lot of people don't understand.

[Wolf610]

Yes, reduce everyones caps to 5/6/6/5 because they played longer and grinded in gold when I wasn't. Also, since they were around before me I demand Bioware reduces their promotion weapons, it's not fair that they have higher hurricanes because they were around at launch and earned them when some players didn't have the game yet.

Get over yourselves and deal with it.

BTW Bryan, any plans for some community weekend challenges to raise Missile/thermal cap to 6? That OCD man, 5/6/6/5...

[HolyAvenger]

killer of stars wrote...

Nethershadow I agree with you. It's the principle, something it seems a lot of people don't understand.

 

No I understand the principle. However the two proposed solutions are

a) Increase the cap for everyone. This will completely break the game. No one wants that.

 Take the cap away from those who have it. A tiny, tiny percentage of the MP population. This is not worth wasting the devs' time, money and effort over. And is petty besides. 

The main concern seems to be over solos. Guess what, the game isn't balanced around soloing. No one gives a f"ck how fast you can solo and how many rockets you can use. 

[BridgeBurner]

Ok, so besides from N7 Link and I_Pity_The_Fool, is there anybody who still plays on PC who has more than 5/6/6/5?

Nope, so there are only 2 people I know of who have over the current cap.

Can't speak for other platforms, but I'm sure there is an equally small number of people remaining who played early enough, and grinded fast enough to receive consumables over the cap.

It's such a minor issue, and really doesn't matter.

Link did a recent solo, where he used 6 ops and used only 1 more missile than other players could and still beat his old record. That other missile might have gained him 10-15 seconds at most.

There was no need for this to turn into a 15 page thread... it's such a non issue.

It's not as big an advantage as people seem to be making it out to be.

And if you are all so bothered about solo speedruns, can you at least attempt some of your own before complaining about others?

Modifié par Annomander, 16 février 2013 - 04:55 .

[Ameno Xiel]

I take one card from the other deck and say in principle, those people who either spent more money or more time in the beginning of the game deserve those +x upgrades. And believe me, it really doesn't matter what anyones stand is on this, because this is a fact. I don't care if you started MP too late, didn't play enough or didn't want to pay money - you missed out on those +x upgrades (as trivial as they are) on your own account. Other people did more for them, it's as simple as it sounds. So no, no equality for you, me or anybody else that missed those. And rightfully so.

[Sigilbeckons]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

The players who played at the beginning technically did not get an unfair advantage, every player had the capability to receive the same benefits.

This is a co-op game, there is no unfair advantage to these people, I would think you would more likely want these people on your team.

Thinking this could be applied to a number of fixes that have come to balance the game, I would rather just have an awesome rare class/weapon thats on my team, than every class and weapon, regardless of rarity, being normalized, but I guess thats a different thread altogether.  

[killer of stars]

Let's say you work at company X, now you steal a couple of dollars from the company. It's a small amount and it's not going to hurt the company. Are they just going to let you keep working there? Nope, you're going to be fired. You see it's the principle. Doesn't matter that the amount was small.

[Nethershadow]

Deerber wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

@Deerber

I don't know why you get so upset about it when Link just laughs at it, even mocking the whole thing in his sig.

I'm sorry, emotions and tones might not come across the internet right 

I'm not upset about it. I'm simply tired of it. I was the one suggesting that signature to Link, go figure 

And I am not tired of this thing specifically, of Link's consumables and such. It's a much more general thing.

I'm tired of people being in a kind of mentality which creates a lot of negative feedback, for them as well as for others. The mentality of: "oh look at what this guy did! How can he do it? Why is it I can't do it? He obviously has an unfair advantage!".

Well, in my opinion, that kind of mentality:

- doesn't allow you to improve yourself as you could if you thought "damn, I really need to learn to do what this guy does!"
- incites envy, which is a bad feeling
- incites negative behaviour, hackusation and such on the forum (talking about Link in this case, but it happened to other players capable of astonishing feats as well, namely Jay)
- all in all, brings a lot of negativity to the community, even when the object of the flaming (again, the case of Link/Jay) is smart enough to have a laugh about it.


It's just a slight annoyance to me, to be honest. But when it gets brought up again and again and again like this... It makes me tired of discussing it in an objective and hopefully intelligent way.

I only did this because I know you're not among them, I know you're a smart and nice guy and I know the time I took to write it down won't be wasted... Hopefully 

I have a pretty good idea this thread will not change anything this late into the game, but i also created it to provoke or show what NOT to do in the future (ME4 mp?).

You seem to have lost the idea of what positive criticism is and how it helps, as not everything can be rainbows and lollipops all the time. The discussion here is that BW implemented an unfair advantage, and now they really cant defend that decision with anything credible.

The bottom line for me is that if you maintain the line that this is a game where all have the same thing, all are effected by the same thing then there is no exception. Everyone suffers buffs and nerfs to the items in game, so for those same players that are beyond norm caps it shouldnt be that difficult to understand, and sure they can be unhappy about it, but it 'needed' to be done just like all other nerfs.

I played this game just as earlier as any of them have, i have also spent real money at the very beggining on the game but i just didnt happen to get cap increases, and i have been playing it a while. With that said, senoirity means nothing in most games ext when it comes to 'deserving' more power than another person. Especially when you can just bypass "earning your stripes" as someone said, by using real money to just max your manifest.

There is no reason that i have seen in this thread so far as to why those people 'should' have a permanent mechanical advantage over everyone else. They didnt do anything different than many of us except spent time and money in the first week.

[ryanshowseason3]

killer of stars wrote...

Let's say you work at company X, now you steal a couple of dollars from the company. It's a small amount and it's not going to hurt the company. Are they just going to let you keep working there? Nope, you're going to be fired. You see it's the principle. Doesn't matter that the amount was small.

Bad analogy. These people didn't steal anything so while that example is based on principle it is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PRINCIPLE. One of theft. Not even close to what we're talking about.

The one we're working with here is the principle of pseudo promotional advantage. These people did not cheat or steal and should not be treated like criminals. Find a different metaphor.

These people bought a cake, a big cake, for a lot of money. The bakery realized it would not be sustainable to continue doing this so they stopped selling cakes that big. They had the option to do this via server side settings so they did.

The krysae is a different matter. They sold cakes that they realized that one of their ingredients in all of their cakes would spoil too quickly and everyone's cake would be ruined. They had no choice but to recall them all. Especially with the limitations of the balance changes in a technical sense. There was and still is no way to change only new player's krysaes. The cap increases however had server side settings. A lot of you fail to understand that there was no other option for the krysae even if they wanted one.

[LuckyBullet95]

Platinum can basically be cleared with 32 rocket s and just using weapons for clean up. We don't need 20 more.