104 réponses à ce sujet

[Knight of Dane]

More romance, sure I'm all for that.

Dragon Age 2 was.. Adequate.. But I'd like some more meat on that bone.

[shootist70]

Brahmvus wrote...

NOTE character interavtion in game is boring u fool if a game was just talking who wuld play give me the dragon killing not idiots talking in rooms. go play monkey island u ignoramus, o pretionses

Hehe, this just made me laugh, but I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

[Yendor_Trawz]

shootist70 wrote...

I like the DA series, but whenever I play them there's always something...missing.

Is it a better story arc with more meaningful quests and more interesting characters? Because too much time has been spent on Romance?

If so, good point.

[Sylvanpyxie]

I want romantic elements that are intertwined within the whole plot arc, and actually DRIVE it. I want love interests that form a part of the entire plot through to the end.

I imagine such a thing would require a great deal more work on the part of the writers. Though I myself know little of the job the writers have, integrating multiple romantic story arcs for various sexual orientations with vastly different character personalities into the main plot would likely be... Problematic.

One of the biggest things people expect from Bioware's romance is choice. Whether they're gay, straight or bi-sexual. Whether they like broody, cheerful, innocent or borderline insane - The more choice tends to be the better for the romantic community.

Integrating stories effortlessly into the plot itself and still offering a varied range of Potential Love Interests would be difficult.

Another thing to note - Making romance a driving force for the plot would force Players into a position they might not want. A lot of people don't pursue romances, and a lot of people don't want to pursue romances. Making romance a vital key to the plot itself would require shoving it down the throats of the people that do not want it.

Increasing the content of romance itself is something I could certainly understand the Romancers wanting - I for one would like to see a more natural progression of the relationship between Player and NPC - but asking for romantic content to be forced on Players who may not necessarily want it is quite a step too far.

Perhaps I've just misunderstood your suggestion, but to make romance the driving force of the story itself would greatly affect the Player base - in a very negative manner.

Oh and I would like to just say:

Being that little bit scared of romance in games is kinda like being afraid of it in just about every form of drama and literature going.

Television, theater and literature are not interactive forms of media. We, the viewer, are not involved in the events of the story - we're not experiencing the tale first hand. We have no influence, no impact. We simply sit back and watch the events unfold in front of us, as the Dashing Hero fights to save the Damsel in Distress we do not decide their fates or choose their path.

Video-games are an interactive media. Unlike other forms of media, we aren't just being told a story - we're involved in the story. We're not a spectator, we're not a viewer, we experience the events first hand, we are the Dashing Hero and we decide the fate of the Damsel in Distress. We choose our own path.

The differences are obvious: The writers of literature and theater are only limited by their own story, the writers of video-games must cater to the Player's story and offer the opportunity for their own characterization. While a writer's hero might be motivated by the love of a beautiful woman, a Player might be more inclined to cleave her in twain... That is a burden that other forms of media don't have to deal with.

So, in my opinion, comparing interactive video-game stories to the more static stories of television, literature and other forms of media is quite silly.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 15 février 2013 - 01:36 .

[Knight of Dane]

^
Everything that adds to the story is more work for the writers.

Would this be a project for bioware? Perhaps not, but that is for them to decide I guess.

[hussey 92]

I'd actaully be ok with having no romance.

[shootist70]

Yendor_Trawz wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

I like the DA series, but whenever I play them there's always something...missing.

Is it a better story arc with more meaningful quests and more interesting characters? Because too much time has been spent on Romance?

If so, good point.

That's just a throwaway statement. How, exactly, do you make characters and quests more 'meaningful'?

The only way to give them meaning to an audience is through empathy. The problem with genres like fantasy is that they tend to take place in otherworldly environments, and with big themes such as evil empires, corrupt wizards etc etc. I don't know about you, but I have a hard time empathising with those things. The best way to strike an empathetic chord is to actually root the main narrative in the familiar. A great device for this to root it in the emotive, familiar world of love/lust/passion and use that to drive the whole narrative.

No, it's not about datesims, or 'icky' stuff, it's about basic, effective drama.

[shootist70]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

I want romantic elements that are intertwined within the whole plot arc, and actually DRIVE it. I want love interests that form a part of the entire plot through to the end.

One of the biggest things people expect from Bioware's romance is choice. Whether they're gay, straight or bi-sexual. Whether they like broody, cheerful, innocent or borderline insane - The more choice tends to be the better for the romantic community.

Integrating stories effortlessly into the plot itself and still offering a varied range of Potential Love Interests would be difficult.

I agree, but the point was made already in an earlier post. See my response to that one. Basically, though, you could still retain a character's individuality by tailoring how that character responds to and intereacts with that same main plot(s). That's better than attempting to retain it by having them have very little impact on it.

Another thing to note - Making romance a driving force for the plot would force Players into a position they might not want. A lot of people don't pursue romances, and a lot of people don't want to pursue romances. Making romance a vital key to the plot itself would require shoving it down the throats of the people that do not want it.

Increasing the content of romance itself is something I could certainly understand the Romancers wanting - I for one would like to see a more natural progression of the relationship between Player and NPC - but asking for romantic content to be forced on Players who may not necessarily want it is quite a step too far.

Yes, that's a good point. Personally I would say 'so what?' There's plenty of games out there that drive everything through constant killing and empty 'kill the bad guys/save the world' storylines. 'Forcing' decent drama on somebody isn't such a bad thing.

Being that little bit scared of romance in games is kinda like being afraid of it in just about every form of drama and literature going.

The differences are obvious: The writers of literature and theater are only limited by their own story, the writers of video-games must cater to the Player's story and offer the opportunity for their own characterization. While a writer's hero might be motivated by the love of a beautiful woman, a Player might be more inclined to cleave her in twain... That is a burden that other forms of media don't have to deal with.

I don't think that's relevant. Drama is drama, no matter the media. In fact, I'd spin it the other way around: Games present a fantastic opportunity to explore and interact with that drama like no other media has. I don't think that that drama has to be diluted in some attempt to provide empty 'choices'. If a game wants a strong narrative and meaningful choices, it should retain them. Bioware games need to retain them, because strong narrative and meaningful choices are precisely what they're always promising to deliver. They didn't make Skyrim.

So, in my opinion, to say that the drama must be diluted because 'it's a game, not a movie', is quite silly.

[Uccio]

Brahmvus wrote...

no. romance in games is pointless imagine all the people touching themselves over leliana it kinda makes me sick. video game romance is dead flat and kind of a joke, also if everyone can fall in love with u no matter who they are like da2 wats the point sleep with that ugly gypsy women then marry anders bla bla. In both games i would have rather married my dog it would have been more realistic. i mean yea u go out wiv morgana than she pulls u off into a mirror. woooo, forget the romance il stik to prostitutes thx

WuT?

[LTD]

Significant portion of BWN users would end up having more fun if they changed RPGs to daytime soap TV series. Latter is free of boring elements like the game itself that serve only to interrupt narrative detailing various relationships of various people.

I am being serious here. 

http://en.wikipedia....d_the_Beautiful

http://en.wikipedia....ys_of_our_lives

Atleast these two are well established and long running shows. They offer tons and tons of all kind of romance and LIs, no sillyness like having to play some  video game to distract you from them LIs.

Modifié par LTD, 15 février 2013 - 12:29 .

[Chaos Lord Malek]

DinoSteve wrote...

I think they should make less of the romance, and focus on giving us a strong story.

Yes. I think 1 or 2 romancable characters should be enough.

[Knight of Dane]

shootist70 wrote...
Games present a fantastic opportunity to explore and interact with that drama like no other media has.

The main point why I like 'em.

[9TailsFox]

So far I am very happy how good Bioware implemented romances to the plot. DA:O and DA2 both.

In DA:O I romanced Morrigan. At the end she came and offer DR. Warden: You saying I don't have to die and what we have to is is just have sex again, and our baby will be dragonborn? So far so good , wait whats the catch, ah whatever. :OOr if you romanced Alister first will you accept DR if you not he will sacrifice for you.

Ok lets go to DA2 Isabel is bad sorry Arishok you don't get hear she is my LI. Or for someone who romanced Anders imagine how different ending from me who did not. Yes it is not different but feeling is not the same.

Modifié par 9TailsFox, 15 février 2013 - 02:13 .

[Zarathiel]

LTD wrote...

Significant portion of BWN users would end up having more fun if they changed RPGs to daytime soap TV series. Latter is free of boring elements like the game itself that serve only to interrupt narrative detailing various relationships of various people.

I am being serious here. 

http://en.wikipedia....d_the_Beautiful

http://en.wikipedia....ys_of_our_lives

Atleast these two are well established and long running shows. They offer tons and tons of all kind of romance and LIs, no sillyness like having to play some  video game to distract you from them LIs.

Significant portion of BWN users would end up having more fun if they changed RPGs to FPS. Latter is free of boring elements like talking to NPCs for more than 5 seconds that serve only to interrupt shoosting peoples to death.

I am not being serious here. 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Call_of_Duty

http://en.wikipedia....efield_(series)

Atleast these two are well established and long running game series. They offer tons and tons of all kind of weapons to kill people with, no sillyness like well-written, engaging NPCs distract you from blowing crap up.

Anyway, I'm not sure about making the whole game revolve around a romance, but I'd definitely like them to feel more important to our characters than they have in the past. As others have said, Alistair and Morrigan have been the high points in this regard so far.

Modifié par Zarathiel, 17 février 2013 - 09:19 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

shootist70 wrote...
Of course, there's nothing new in this suggestion, it's been essential to genres like fantasy, space-opera, and thriller since those things began. Think Conan the Barbarian without...that blonde woman, or The Bourne Series without Marie, or Inception without the dead chick. Ancient Greek and Roman epic, which started this whole thing, is littered with it. Who launched a thousand ships?

Yeah, None of those examples feature 3 to 4 dialogue lines per conversation before infinite loop, which reminds you how shallow and unrealistic those conversation are, especially the heart icons.  I'm not even sure the purpose of flirt and romance in DA 2, when all it about is, shallow quest centric characters. 

As long as DA writers feel obligated to restrict players' control just for them to spread out the dialogue opportunity evenly across the game, no matter how thin they are, romance in DA series is useless. I'm not going to visit the romanceable companions for  the 10th times only to hear the looping, "I'll talk to you later," or "My house is full of holes," etc... until the next event. Nor do I want to wait for them to bug me with codex entries when I'm in the middle of my primary mission. The romance option, may as well just go to hell, because I'm not going to play it.

[Sylvanpyxie]

Personally I would say 'so what?' 'Forcing' decent drama on somebody isn't such a bad thing.

And here-in lies my issue. The request itself is horribly self-centered.

Railroading players into a compulsory romantic entanglement for the sake of a story that Bioware could more than likely produce without limiting themselves to needless lady-loving is going to upset a large amount of people. It isn't just about forcing the players into circumstances that they don't want, it's about limiting the options for personal characterization which damages the role-playing aspect of the story.

Bioware are already getting stick for removing role-playing elements from their games. Further alienating the player-base with a compulsory romantic element will do them no favours.

Of course, that's just me. I know that the Bioware Social Network is rather attached to it's romantic content. I can only hope that David Gaider stands by his convictions of leaving the romantic elements optional.

[Snypy]

I kind of agree with the OP. Romances in previous DA games felt a bit shallow (particularly in DA:O). I'll welcome it if BioWare places more emphasis on love interests in DA3. I reckon it'd interesting to see the main plot shaped by the player's choice of LI.

[Saberchic]

I like how they did them in DAO. I don't believe the romances need to impact the story any more than they do. They already keep them pretty closely linked; Alistair, Morrigan, Isabela, and Anders all are tied into the plot pretty well.

What I think some people miss, and I know I certainly did, was the availability to talk to their LI when they wanted to. In DAO, I could talk to Alistair and give him a smooch (or whatever else) in camp whenever I wanted. As a result of that, I felt more connected to him than I did Fenris because it seemed to me that we were interacting more even though it was basically me accessing the same scene. Yet the relationship felt more organic to me.

To make the romances any more prevalent would change the dynamic of the game and make it more of a dating sim. While I do enjoy the romances, they are just a part of the experience.

[LinksOcarina]

shootist70 wrote...

Basically, I want a greater sense of catharsis from conflict resolution because it involves emotive character action as much as it does cleaving skulls in half. I want drama as well as action, because action without all this is not drama.

And here In thought I was the only guy who liked Final Fantasy VIII...

Putting a romance as a forefront issue into the narrative of the game is difficult. I wouldn't mind seeing it, but the romances in Dragon Age are actually really balanced out in terms of their payoffs in the end, both in being sweet and poignant to tragic and dark. 

[Renmiri1]

Zarathiel wrote...

LTD wrote...

Significant portion of BWN users would end up having more fun if they changed RPGs to daytime soap TV series. Latter is free of boring elements like the game itself that serve only to interrupt narrative detailing various relationships of various people.

I am being serious here. 

http://en.wikipedia....d_the_Beautiful

http://en.wikipedia....ys_of_our_lives

Atleast these two are well established and long running shows. They offer tons and tons of all kind of romance and LIs, no sillyness like having to play some  video game to distract you from them LIs.

Significant portion of BWN users would end up having more fun if they changed RPGs to FPS. Latter is free of boring elements like talking to NPCs for more than 5 seconds that serve only to interrupt shoosting peoples to death.

I am not being serious here. 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Call_of_Duty

http://en.wikipedia....efield_(series)

Atleast these two are well established and long running game series. They offer tons and tons of all kind of weapons to kill people with, no sillyness like well-written, engaging NPCs distract you from blowing crap up.

Anyway, I'm not sure about making the whole game revolve around a romance, but I'd definitely like them to feel more important to our characters than they have in the past. As others have said, Alistair and Morrigan have been the high points in this regard so far.

+10000

You sure gave the idiot a better answer than the one I was about to write 

[CuriousArtemis]

I agree with you, OP Especially since my canon romaces are Zevran and Fenris. Love those two guys, but they have virtually nothing to do with the main plot of the story. If my PC's LI was somehow wound up in the main plot, it would really add an emotional "kick" to the immediacy of the story. For example, if I had to fight the Arishok to keep Fenris (a la Isabela), or if Zevran were a secret royal bastard or something lol

I guess I'm saying it's a bummer how the LIs I chose were so removed from the storyline, but even Isabela and Morrigan could have been more entwined into the storyline.

Alistair is really the only LI who is deeply part of the main story. So more like that? (Even though I believe DG said he'd not write another romance like Alistair's)

[iOnlySignIn]

motomotogirl wrote...

Alistair is really the only LI who is deeply part of the main story

Morrigan, Anders, even Leliana when you consider who she is and what role she will play in DA:I.

It's just the Elvish LIs that are not relevant to the main story, which is not surprising as Elves as a whole are no longer relevant in Thedas. If you romance your pet rabit, you should not complain that your relationship has no world-shattering consequences.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 17 février 2013 - 09:33 .

[schalafi]

If there were no meaningful romances in Bioware games I wouldn't have bought them. I like to roleplay, not just kill, kill, kill. If I wanted that I'd be playing fps' not rpgs.

[Karlone123]

Maybe if Bioware were to make a Twilight game...

[TheJediSaint]

I think Bioware's in a good place in terms of the quantity of romance. I think some folks forget that romances are optional content, and therefore can't be too integrated into the main story. Otherwise you risk alienated players who like RPGs but not romance.