67 réponses à ce sujet

[sarakirrer]

Yendor_Trawz wrote...

I'm pretty much with you. I guess it comes down to what a 'weathered' look may be. Weathered by the sunny life in the woods (and yes, I considered all those lovely shady trees) , or weathered by dust and dirt and poverty in the alienage. It can go either way.

For me, the tattoos to the DE also gain importance because most non nomadic cultures express heritage and status through their artifacts. The DE can't lug warehouses of goods around (although they have plenty of statues and totems around in DA:O) when they are on the move, so a lot of their cultural preservation is non material, such as story telling and face painting.

I do agree about the clothing for the most part. Although how distinctive they make it is tempered by the need to not be conspicuous, They are hunters after all.

I mostly wanted Master Arathorn to take more than 8 seconds to make my Ironbark bow. After his little speech to Nervous Apprentice about taking time and great care to perfect your craft blah blah blah, it was a WTF moment for me.

All really good points--especially your point about the tattoos and the storytelling. I'd love to see a return of the storytelling we saw in DA:O, but it makes sense that the Dalish in DA2 wouldn't have wanted to share their stories with Hawke, who they never saw as anything but an outsider. I wonder if our Inquisitor will have a chance to gain the (albeit grudging) respect of the Dalish like a non-elf Warden?

Also, re: Ironbark Bow... Imagine how little time it would've taken if he HADN'T put time and great care into it? 

[The Night Haunter]

Look at Forgotten Realms, you've got so many races you don't even know what they all are. DA has 4 races, each with a well defined background and unique interactions. If we had 6 or 7 races how well defined would they be? How much back story could you make for 8 races? I much prefer Quality over Quantity.

[The Hierophant]

ShadyKat wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Isn't there another race called the Fex living in Par Vollen?

Yeah, Bioware hinted at them before DA2 launched. They never said what they looked like, just that they share tje same island as the Qunari.

This is my guess at what a Fex might look like.



Bioware make it happen.

[LinksOcarina]

 Eh...

There is a fundamental problem when people add races to a game.For starters, does it make sense to even include them?

Many can argue that having elves and dwarves in Dragon Age is already too cliche for a fantasy setting, because they are in almost any fantastic table-top out there in some form or another and are really no different from how modern fantasy fiction depicts them, in some cases.

The Qunari are as alien as you get, they are literally a new race that has never been seen before which makes them A)  cool, and unique. They serve as a more alien faction because of their rigid belief system being paramount to what a Qunari is. What their race used to be doesn't matter (if I recall Kossith is an antiquiated term for them) because they are known just as Qunari. 

Lastly, the Darkspawn are a race as well. A very disorganized, loosely held together race, but a race nonetheless, twisted because of the taint that is within them and their own unique traits. 

Now from this, look at their contexts in the world, both culturally and historically. Humans are numerous and divided, like always, which makes them very unique because they can have different cultural ideals and systems that permeate their philosophy. Ferelden is different from Orlais despite borrowing from their government structure, for example. Tevinter is a mageocracy, and the Anderfels are pretty much controlled by the Wardens, all viable examples.

Elves and Dwarves have dying cultures. I think its said several times that Dwarves are in decline, whereas the elves are sort of in flux, where they try to both preserve what they have left, and eke out an existance in a new world despite being treated poorly. This also colors their own philosophies and traditions. 

The Qunari are a new culture that is attempting to dominate the others to their ideals. The Darkspawn are a disorganized, chaotic culture that are a threat to said ideals as well, at least, in theory, we shall see if the Architect changes things...

So the question you need to ask is, how would a new race fit into this cultuarly and historically, when the four/five races already involved are vastly diverse within themselves in some cases. 

[Yendor_Trawz]

sarakirrer wrote...

[Also, re: Ironbark Bow... Imagine how little time it would've taken if he HADN'T put time and great care into it? 

He was lying about that bloody ironbark all along. He probably had a truckload of second hand bows all ready to dump off on the next unsuspecting party of World Savers.

"I'll just see if we have one in the storeroom for you Sir"

Never trust an elf.

[Fredward]

ShadyKat wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Isn't there another race called the Fex living in Par Vollen?

Yeah, Bioware hinted at them before DA2 launched. They never said what they looked like, just that they share tje same island as the Qunari.

I thought the Fex were just tribal humans. #themoreyouknow

Also you guys are forgetting darkspawn and demons/spirits. And potentially dragons if they ever grow brains.

[Yendor_Trawz]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Isn't there another race called the Fex living in Par Vollen?

Yeah, Bioware hinted at them before DA2 launched. They never said what they looked like, just that they share tje same island as the Qunari.

I thought the Fex were just tribal humans. #themoreyouknow

Also you guys are forgetting darkspawn and demons/spirits. And potentially dragons if they ever grow brains.

It's a little confusing to a non Lore nut like me, as the Fex story (what little there is of it) reads like they were the humans on Par Vollen before the Qunari rocked up and pitched their tents. But they have been described by Gaider as a different race, but humanoid.

[Fredward]

Yendor_Trawz wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Isn't there another race called the Fex living in Par Vollen?

Yeah, Bioware hinted at them before DA2 launched. They never said what they looked like, just that they share tje same island as the Qunari.

I thought the Fex were just tribal humans. #themoreyouknow

Also you guys are forgetting darkspawn and demons/spirits. And potentially dragons if they ever grow brains.

It's a little confusing to a non Lore nut like me, as the Fex story (what little there is of it) reads like they were the humans on Par Vollen before the Qunari rocked up and pitched their tents. But they have been described by Gaider as a different race, but humanoid.

Cool. See now it's Fex, Qunari, Darkspawn, Elves, Dwarves, Humans, Demons/Spirits and maybe some time in the future dragons. Yay for diversity!

[Sutekh]

Wulfram wrote...

I dislike having too many races in a world. Which sounds horribly racist, so I should say I mean in the fantasy sense of Elves and Dwarves and whatnot. Usually once you get past 3 or 4 they end up being poorly defined and boring, and you have to stretch quite hard to give them all a proper place in history. And one of them probably ends up being comic relief.

I don't see why Dalish and City Elves should look different, aside from tattoos and clothing. They're the same people, who only diverged 700 years ago.

100% agree with the first paragraph, but 700 years of differences in diet and way of life should translate to actual physical differences (height, build etc...). It takes very few generations (merely one century, sometimes even less) for a simple difference in diet to show within the same bloodline, for instance.

[KiwiQuiche]

Yendor_Trawz wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Isn't there another race called the Fex living in Par Vollen?

Yeah, Bioware hinted at them before DA2 launched. They never said what they looked like, just that they share tje same island as the Qunari.

I thought the Fex were just tribal humans. #themoreyouknow

Also you guys are forgetting darkspawn and demons/spirits. And potentially dragons if they ever grow brains.

It's a little confusing to a non Lore nut like me, as the Fex story (what little there is of it) reads like they were the humans on Par Vollen before the Qunari rocked up and pitched their tents. But they have been described by Gaider as a different race, but humanoid.

Ugh, they better not turn out like ME3's excuse for a quarian.

[Felya87]

Rawgrim wrote...

Whats the point in introducing new races when we can only play a human anyway?

that. But what I think would be good, is a difference in culture of the various Dalish tribes. The Elf where different and variuos as the Humans (even if we don't see much outside the usual Andrastians...) before the slavery, so there should be differences from clan to clan, be it religious or cultural, or purely in crafting.(we know there are even war between clans)

Still, more variations in the robes and armor for the Dalish would be appreciated, to have a bigger sense of "diferent than Human". not so much happy with the barefoot thing... I find it ok for Keepers. They are the spiritual centre of the clan, they can try to be "one" with the nature with the barefoot thing...but I really don't see a hunter run after a deer barefoot in a forest, full of branches, pine cones and stones...if we don't get to hear a lot of Elvhen blasphemies, at least!

[MisanthropePrime]

Bear in mind that we've only seen dwarves and elves from the same rough geographic area. Just as you can't really tell the difference between a human from England and Germany, or Ferelden and the Free Marches, the same goes for elves and dwarves from that area.

On the other hand, Fenris looks vastly different than the elves we've met in-game, even beyond his Lyrium brands he has a mediterranean skin-tone that should logically denote someone from the Tevinter Imperium. I would not be surprised that, if we went there, we wouldn't see more elves that look like that. Similarly, if we were to go to Rivain or Antiva, we'd see more elves (and humans) with that skin tone as well.

[thebigbad1013]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

If there's one thing the Dragon Age games need it's some new races.

It really doens't.

[XX-Pyro]

Sutekh wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I dislike having too many races in a world. Which sounds horribly racist, so I should say I mean in the fantasy sense of Elves and Dwarves and whatnot. Usually once you get past 3 or 4 they end up being poorly defined and boring, and you have to stretch quite hard to give them all a proper place in history. And one of them probably ends up being comic relief.

I don't see why Dalish and City Elves should look different, aside from tattoos and clothing. They're the same people, who only diverged 700 years ago.

100% agree with the first paragraph, but 700 years of differences in diet and way of life should translate to actual physical differences (height, build etc...). It takes very few generations (merely one century, sometimes even less) for a simple difference in diet to show within the same bloodline, for instance.

Evolution doesn't really work over hundreds of years on organisms as complex as humans or in this case elves. The diet wouldn't change very much in regards to physicality of the elves at birth, it would just alter their lifestyle. 

[MisanthropePrime]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I dislike having too many races in a world. Which sounds horribly racist, so I should say I mean in the fantasy sense of Elves and Dwarves and whatnot. Usually once you get past 3 or 4 they end up being poorly defined and boring, and you have to stretch quite hard to give them all a proper place in history. And one of them probably ends up being comic relief.

I don't see why Dalish and City Elves should look different, aside from tattoos and clothing. They're the same people, who only diverged 700 years ago.

100% agree with the first paragraph, but 700 years of differences in diet and way of life should translate to actual physical differences (height, build etc...). It takes very few generations (merely one century, sometimes even less) for a simple difference in diet to show within the same bloodline, for instance.

Evolution doesn't really work over hundreds of years on organisms as complex as humans or in this case elves. The diet wouldn't change very much in regards to physicality of the elves at birth, it would just alter their lifestyle. 

The real problem is the only places we're visiting in Dragon Age have basically the same climates- Ferelden (England), Free Marches (Germany) and probably Orlais (France) are all very temperate. Were we to go to Rivain, Par Vollen, Seheron, Tevinter or even the Anderfels we'd see more variation in appearance, or at least, variation from the norm of Southern Thedas.

Modifié par MisanthropePrime, 15 février 2013 - 02:51 .

[XX-Pyro]

[quote]MisanthropePrime wrote...

[quote]XX-Pyro wrote...

[quote]Sutekh wrote...

[quote]Wulfram wrote...

I dislike having too many races in a world. Which sounds horribly racist, so I should say I mean in the fantasy sense of Elves and Dwarves and whatnot. Usually once you get past 3 or 4 they end up being poorly defined and boring, and you have to stretch quite hard to give them all a proper place in history. And one of them probably ends up being comic relief.

I don't see why Dalish and City Elves should look different, aside from tattoos and clothing. They're the same people, who only diverged 700 years ago.[/quote]100% agree with the first paragraph, but 700 years of differences in diet and way of life should translate to actual physical differences (height, build etc...). It takes very few generations (merely one century, sometimes even less) for a simple difference in diet to show within the same bloodline, for instance.[/quote]

Evolution doesn't really work over hundreds of years on organisms as complex as humans or in this case elves. The diet wouldn't change very much in regards to physicality of the elves at birth, it would just alter their lifestyle. 


[/quote]
The real problem is the only places we're visiting in Dragon Age have basically the same climates- Ferelden (England), Free Marches (Germany) and probably Orlais (France) are all very temperate. Were we to go to Rivain, Par Vollen, Seheron, Tevinter or even the Anderfels we'd see more variation in appearance, or at least, variation from the norm of Southern Thedas.

[/quote

For humans sure. I don't really know the status of elves and dwarves up there though so I can't personally make any assumptions there.

[MisanthropePrime]

XX-Pyro wrote...

For humans sure. I don't really know the status of elves and dwarves up there though so I can't personally make any assumptions there.

Well we've seen Antivan and Tevinter elves and they're notably swarthier than southern Thedosians, so it makes sense that elves are just as dark in warmer/sunnier climates as the humans from those areas.

[imsyfi]

bigbad1013 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

If there's one thing the Dragon Age games need it's some new races.

It really doens't.

I agree, you can water it all down too much and lose the flavor of the whole game.  The complexities of the present races meld together well without getting lost in a bunch of mumbo jumbo. In most people's minds DA2 lost a lot just having humans being playable (we mostly expected playing our own pick for race after having that choice in DAO) but with the way the story went, they couldn't have really done DA2 as successfully if Hawke was not human, it all fit together like a jigsaw puzzle. Adding to the existing lore of each race would be really nice though  (and appreciated) just to keep it fresh and progressing along, as in real life.

[Sutekh]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Evolution doesn't really work over hundreds of years on organisms as complex as humans or in this case elves. The diet wouldn't change very much in regards to physicality of the elves at birth, it would just alter their lifestyle. 

Evolution addresses fondamental and genetic changes such as fish growing limbs, the apparition of a neo-cortex or skeletal differences. I'm talking about things such as height or body mass that are directly and quickly impacted by diet and environment. It's not genetic but environmental (nature vs. nurture, quite literally). e. g. On average, people are taller / shorter than their grandparents or great-grandparents because they eat and live differently.

Point being, elves are presented as one uniform species, while there should be global variations, at least between Dalish and City Elves considering they live in very different environments (but I understand very well why there isn't on a practical point of view). 

[MisanthropePrime]

Sutekh wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Evolution doesn't really work over hundreds of years on organisms as complex as humans or in this case elves. The diet wouldn't change very much in regards to physicality of the elves at birth, it would just alter their lifestyle. 

Evolution addresses fondamental and genetic changes such as fish growing limbs, the apparition of a neo-cortex or skeletal differences. I'm talking about things such as height or body mass that are directly and quickly impacted by diet and environment. It's not genetic but environmental (nature vs. nurture, quite literally). e. g. On average, people are taller / shorter than their grandparents or great-grandparents because they eat and live differently.

Point being, elves are presented as one uniform species, while there should be global variations, at least between Dalish and City Elves considering they live in very different environments (but I understand very well why there isn't on a practical point of view). 

The dalish and city elves within a nation tend not to live in drastically different environments. Someone who's born in London does not look that much different than someone born Leicester. On the other hand, elves from two different regions do look different: Merrill looks completely different from Zevran, as well she should.

[Sutekh]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The dalish and city elves within a nation tend not to live in drastically different environments. Someone who's born in London does not look that much different than someone born Leicester. On the other hand, elves from two different regions do look different: Merrill looks completely different from Zevran, as well she should.

That's because London and Leicester are both cities, and I'm pretty sure the average Londonian has access to the same diet as the guy from Leicester, and globally has the same way of life. Environment isn't only climate and geography. Dalish, nomadic, forest dwelling hunters and City Elves, urban, (very) lower class workers don't live in the same environment at all.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

I repeat: I am not talking about genetic diversity among the elves or the dwarves. I am talking about cosmetic differences that display their culture. Facial tattoos are too simplistic and don't convey any sort of culture. When you can put the same tattoo on a city elf and he instantly looks Dalish, that's not good.

[Yendor_Trawz]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I repeat: I am not talking about genetic diversity among the elves or the dwarves. I am talking about cosmetic differences that display their culture. Facial tattoos are too simplistic and don't convey any sort of culture. When you can put the same tattoo on a city elf and he instantly looks Dalish, that's not good.

I would say that the tattoos do display culture. They may designate role, experience or heirarchy. I dont know enough about Dalish tattoo lore to say for sure.

But ask any Polynesian about their tattoos, or an Aboriginal about their face painting, and yes, it's very deeply a cultural symbol to them.

[sarakirrer]

Yendor_Trawz wrote...

sarakirrer wrote...

[Also, re: Ironbark Bow... Imagine how little time it would've taken if he HADN'T put time and great care into it? 

He was lying about that bloody ironbark all along. He probably had a truckload of second hand bows all ready to dump off on the next unsuspecting party of World Savers.

"I'll just see if we have one in the storeroom for you Sir"

Never trust an elf.

Did you REALLY think he was going to give one of his sacred Ironbark Bows to a dirty Shem?? Joke's on you, Warden!