145 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Being a virgin myself, I have to say I don't understand the appeal.

[Knight of Dane]

Plaintiff wrote...

Being a virgin myself, I have to say I don't understand the appeal.

It's like that with all sexuality, I don't see the appeal in a male/male romance but that is because I am of a straight mind.

That does not mean that I wish to deny others that possbility however.

There are many reasons someone can be attracted to a virgin. One way to look at it would be "innocence," there is a special appeal to the "first" time both if the other part is experienced or a virgin him/herself. The first time is usually the one most remember the best, for good or ill.
Knowing that your partner is "unspoilt" has another appeal to some, the simple thought that no one else has ravaged the beauty before you. Like a toothbrush. No using that if someone else haz!

[nightscrawl]

Bfler wrote...

Unhardened Alistair and her would make a good couple.

Hm... given that she likes Sebastian, I would have said the opposite. Sebastian may have a moral dilemma about whether to fight for Starkhaven or remain a brother in the Chantry, but he is not wishy-washy, which is more applicable to unhardened Alistair.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 17 février 2013 - 01:42 .

[Plaintiff]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Being a virgin myself, I have to say I don't understand the appeal.

It's like that with all sexuality, I don't see the appeal in a male/male romance but that is because I am of a straight mind.

That does not mean that I wish to deny others that possbility however.

There are many reasons someone can be attracted to a virgin. One way to look at it would be "innocence," there is a special appeal to the "first" time both if the other part is experienced or a virgin him/herself. The first time is usually the one most remember the best, for good or ill.
Knowing that your partner is "unspoilt" has another appeal to some, the simple thought that no one else has ravaged the beauty before you. Like a toothbrush. No using that if someone else haz!

Well people can have whatever kinks they want, but if someone who professed an attraction to me told me that my appeal lay in being "unspoilt", I would be offended and massively creeped out.

The attitude and the accompanying terminology are both deeply problematic, not least because they infer that sex is a 'dirty' act that spoils the people (or, if you want to be really sexist, the women) who engage in it. That's why people have taken issue with OP's phrasing. He deliberately singles out Bethany's virginity as a major aspect of her appeal, which suggests that she would be less appealing (if not completely unappealing) if she was revealed to be 'spoiled goods'.

I'm not interested in getting down with someone who sees sex as a) a race to see who can "ruin" the most virgins for other people, or as akin to planting their flag in me and claiming ownership of my body. And I imagine most virgins, if not most people, feel the same way.

[Knight of Dane]

Sure opinion and all that.

I just like Bethany because she's cute.

[Bob Garbage]

They will come up with some other cute brunette chick to satisfy your creepy fantasies I'm sure.

[Knight of Dane]

^
Lol, troll.

[TJPags]

Except....she could be dead.

I'd really prefer that NO potentially dead NPC's from prior games come back. Ever.

Use time and resources on things that ALL players can have, not simply those whose prior games were lucky enough to have kept certain characters alive.

[Heimdall]

TheLittleBird wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

Well to be fair Joffrey was the only one who turned out to be a sociophatic hell spawn.

The books are still catching dust on a shelf in my room, so I've only watched the show and I don't really know the other's personalities very well, so...

Tommen is a harmless little boy that likes to play with kittens.  Marcella seems to be sweet but mature, not to sure about her though.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 17 février 2013 - 04:36 .

[Blooddrunk1004]

People want to romance Bethany because she is the only normal woman in Dragon Age 2 aside from Aveline.

[syllogi]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Being a virgin myself, I have to say I don't understand the appeal.

It's like that with all sexuality, I don't see the appeal in a male/male romance but that is because I am of a straight mind.

That does not mean that I wish to deny others that possbility however.

There are many reasons someone can be attracted to a virgin. One way to look at it would be "innocence," there is a special appeal to the "first" time both if the other part is experienced or a virgin him/herself. The first time is usually the one most remember the best, for good or ill.
Knowing that your partner is "unspoilt" has another appeal to some, the simple thought that no one else has ravaged the beauty before you. Like a toothbrush. No using that if someone else haz!

You really can't compare homosexuality to fetishizing virginity or innocence.  One is a sexual orientation, and all kinds of people, with very different tastes, can be gay, the only criteria is that they are of the same biological sex/gender.  The other is sexual arousal derived by a very specific situation.  

You may see it as harmless, but because the romanticization or fetishizing of virginity and innocence, especially when it comes to women, can lead to pedophilia, sl*t shaming, and misogyny, I really can't be like "to each their own."  It can be harmful and yeah, creepy, if handled poorly.

If a character happens to be young, inexperienced, or innocent, there's nothing wrong with that in itself.  If the character's status as a virgin or "untouched" and innocent is emphasized and shown as being a major defining characteristic of their personality, then I raise an eyebrow, and wonder what kind of message the writers are sending with that character.  Valuing a state of being that can be easily taken advantage of by bad people, or which shames other people who are no longer in that state, isn't commendable in my view.

[LinksOcarina]

Eh...

Carver is the better character anyway. And he is alive in my main playthrough, if anything have him as a companion and romance for a Female inquisitor. I doubt he has a thing for brooding elves like his brother, after all. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 17 février 2013 - 05:14 .

[Renmiri1]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Being a virgin myself, I have to say I don't understand the appeal.

It's like that with all sexuality, I don't see the appeal in a male/male romance but that is because I am of a straight mind.

That does not mean that I wish to deny others that possbility however.

There are many reasons someone can be attracted to a virgin. One way to look at it would be "innocence," there is a special appeal to the "first" time both if the other part is experienced or a virgin him/herself. The first time is usually the one most remember the best, for good or ill.
Knowing that your partner is "unspoilt" has another appeal to some, the simple thought that no one else has ravaged the beauty before you. Like a toothbrush. No using that if someone else haz!

So I take it you are keeping YOURSELF unspoiled to be a prize for the lucky gal who romances you ?

What creeps me out on all this is how there is a completely different standard for males and females 

[Heimdall]

Renmiri1 wrote...

So I take it you are keeping YOURSELF unspoiled to be a prize for the lucky gal who romances you ?

What creeps me out on all this is how there is a completely different standard for males and females 

That largely has its roots in the desire of our historically patriarchal society to be able to trace patrilineal descent with certainty.

[Knight of Dane]

syllogi wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Being a virgin myself, I have to say I don't understand the appeal.

It's like that with all sexuality, I don't see the appeal in a male/male romance but that is because I am of a straight mind.

That does not mean that I wish to deny others that possbility however.

There are many reasons someone can be attracted to a virgin. One way to look at it would be "innocence," there is a special appeal to the "first" time both if the other part is experienced or a virgin him/herself. The first time is usually the one most remember the best, for good or ill.
Knowing that your partner is "unspoilt" has another appeal to some, the simple thought that no one else has ravaged the beauty before you. Like a toothbrush. No using that if someone else haz!

You really can't compare homosexuality to fetishizing virginity or innocence.  One is a sexual orientation, and all kinds of people, with very different tastes, can be gay, the only criteria is that they are of the same biological sex/gender.  The other is sexual arousal derived by a very specific situation.  

You may see it as harmless, but because the romanticization or fetishizing of virginity and innocence, especially when it comes to women, can lead to pedophilia, sl*t shaming, and misogyny, I really can't be like "to each their own."  It can be harmful and yeah, creepy, if handled poorly.

If a character happens to be young, inexperienced, or innocent, there's nothing wrong with that in itself.  If the character's status as a virgin or "untouched" and innocent is emphasized and shown as being a major defining characteristic of their personality, then I raise an eyebrow, and wonder what kind of message the writers are sending with that character.  Valuing a state of being that can be easily taken advantage of by bad people, or which shames other people who are no longer in that state, isn't commendable in my view.

As I said that is entirly up to people.

I don't define bethany as "the virgin" because it's never really a lingering topic unless you travel a lot through DA2 with her and Isabela.

You might not know she's a virgin at all.
Ao no, I don't think it's a message the writers intent to define her character, just a trait that some like or dislike.

As for comparing it to homosexuality...
You might be right, my point was just that some like virgins, some like the same gender some like animals etc. people can be very different. It wasn't as much a comparison as it was an observation that many people tend to be of many minds.

[Knight of Dane]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Being a virgin myself, I have to say I don't understand the appeal.

It's like that with all sexuality, I don't see the appeal in a male/male romance but that is because I am of a straight mind.

That does not mean that I wish to deny others that possbility however.

There are many reasons someone can be attracted to a virgin. One way to look at it would be "innocence," there is a special appeal to the "first" time both if the other part is experienced or a virgin him/herself. The first time is usually the one most remember the best, for good or ill.
Knowing that your partner is "unspoilt" has another appeal to some, the simple thought that no one else has ravaged the beauty before you. Like a toothbrush. No using that if someone else haz!

So I take it you are keeping YOURSELF unspoiled to be a prize for the lucky gal who romances you ?

What creeps me out on all this is how there is a completely different standard for males and females 

What the **** are you talking about? There is nothing in my post that implies that I personally condone such charactaristics, I merely explain them to someone who wondered about them.

And please don't bring a feministic applause into it, women as well as men can have odd fetishes, it is not a matter of standards but that everyone differs no matter their gender.

[legbamel]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...
So I take it you are keeping YOURSELF unspoiled to be a prize for the lucky gal who romances you ?
What creeps me out on all this is how there is a completely different standard for males and females 

That largely has its roots in the desire of our historically patriarchal society to be able to trace patrilineal descent with certainty.

I just figure men who fetishize it look at virgins as having low standards in bed, as they don't know how bad the men are because they have nothing to which to compare them. 

[Joy Sauce]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

So I take it you are keeping YOURSELF unspoiled to be a prize for the lucky gal who romances you ?

What creeps me out on all this is how there is a completely different standard for males and females 

That largely has its roots in the desire of our historically patriarchal society to be able to trace patrilineal descent with certainty.

True, but with the advent of pat. tests, birth control and equal rights for women, virgin fetishizing really has no place in modern western society, because it leads to things like statutory rape. Virgin idolizing is why polygamy is still so popular with rich men in many parts of the world, and don't get me started on the whole horrific, yet perfectly legal, 'child bride' practice still going on in the mid-east, asia and africa to this day.

Having sex doesn't make a woman dirty for life, we know logially that we shouldn't stigmatize women for having sex, yet many people do, and on the flip side we have to stop idolizing female virginity, it's holding us back as a society.


Wow, but this is getting off-topic. I'd rather have Carver as a companion, but I'd prefer neither, they were both boring and were specific to Hawke, and should remain that way.

[Fallstar]

I'd be OK with being able to romance Bethany in DA3.

Perhaps it's just that I wasn't particularly enamored with the female romance options we had in DA2 which made her look better by comparison, but she was a pretty interesting character.

[Heimdall]

Joy Sauce wrote..
True, but with the advent of pat. tests, birth control and equal rights for women, virgin fetishizing really has no place in modern western society, because it leads to things like statutory rape. Virgin idolizing is why polygamy is still so popular with rich men in many parts of the world, and don't get me started on the whole horrific, yet perfectly legal, 'child bride' practice still going on in the mid-east, asia and africa to this day.

Having sex doesn't make a woman dirty for life, we know logially that we shouldn't stigmatize women for having sex, yet many people do, and on the flip side we have to stop idolizing female virginity, it's holding us back as a society

Wow, but this is getting off-topic. I'd rather have Carver as a companion, but I'd prefer neither, they were both boring and were specific to Hawke, and should remain that way.

Culture has a way of persisting even when the rationale behind it has long since been forgotten by most, the concepts of honor and whatnot used to enforce traditions don't fade or change easily.  Granted it wasn't always like that depending on where you look.  Last year I read a version of a translation of the Epic of Gilgamesh (Oldest known piece of human literature) and heard about the priestesses of Ishtar who "give their bodies to all men to honor the goddess".  Sex was considered a civilizing semi-divine act in contrast to most modern religions... and the off topic stops now.

I'd rather they both be restricted to cameo's at most.  Maybe have them appear in a Templar/Mage encampment or in a party of grey wardens you meet up with, but cameo

[BouncyFrag]

My first post still stands.
**page one spoilers**

Modifié par BouncyFrag, 17 février 2013 - 06:26 .

[RetroActiv]

TJPags wrote...

Except....she could be dead.

I'd really prefer that NO potentially dead NPC's from prior games come back. Ever.

Use time and resources on things that ALL players can have, not simply those whose prior games were lucky enough to have kept certain characters alive.

yet bioware has already done this with Ashley and Kaiden from Mass Effect. Not to mention all of the ME2 LI characters who could all die in the suicide mission.

[Wulfram]

RetroActiv wrote...

yet bioware has already done this with Ashley and Kaiden from Mass Effect. Not to mention all of the ME2 LI characters who could all die in the suicide mission.

Bethany/Carver have Circle vs Warden as well as Dead vs Alive to have to deal with