114 réponses à ce sujet

[visionazzery]

 Is this a cruel joke?

A Cruel hoax on bioware;s part?

Arguably the most distinguished of powers that makes mass effect mass effect are the biotic classes. Sure in singleplayer they largely fine. 

BUT then you go into mplayer and this is what i discovered and this i afraid is the shocking truth:

1. Ammo powers combined with detonation powers such as warp- i.e. incendiary with warp against collectors only does a successful combined biotic and fire explosion a dismal 18% of the time and that with any class with a built specced in the skill tree to deal maximum detonation effect and damage.

2. Warp misses the target way more than it used to- meaning a further reduction from 18% of the time to detonate combined biotic and tech explosions to bout 10% keep in mind these are estimates but i believe after testing it comprohensivley repeatedly both tech explosions generated by warp combined with detonaton ammo of cryo, incendiary or disruptor rounds work more against reaper, cerberus and geth. (Even then it worth noting half the time it should work as combined tech detonation with biotic explosion geth have the problem but less so than against collectors.

Then when i did a series of squad games guess which class got the fire explosions and cryo explosions when i used an asari huntress infiltrator for instance- paladin, vorcha, engineer, destroyer. Is anyone else seeing a sinister pattern here?

Who else thinks it time for bioware to come clean and admit they concealed this problem for us for way longer than they should?

What the point of equipping detonation ammo types for biotic classes if of all enemies total between all enemy classes and types, when combining constant problems with tech detonation on geth and collector caused by combined ammo and biotic expllosions, an alarming third of all enemy races do not detonate when playing biotic type characters?

And why the hell suddenly does warp miss it target even when it a direct straight line pathway to the target?!!

I particularly outraged as like so many others i a biotic player at heart.  But i greatly fear bioware seem to either have something wrong with the detonation caused by biotic classes and when they wield smg- This i firmly believe is the next biggest biotic class problem and most troubling since the vanguard glitch shall we call this the biotic powers glitch?

Who else is annoyed at bioware about their oversights with this? comment

[N7Dropout1]

Where dat grumpy wizard at?

[HolyAvenger]

N7Dropout1 wrote...

Where dat grumpy wizard at?

 

Something something vangods and shooty classes:lol:

[Deerber]

1 - inb4GrumpyOldWizard

2- are you aware of this?

Modifié par Deerber, 17 février 2013 - 02:36 .

[visionazzery]

this 'grumpy wizard; is speaking irrefutable fact mate...why dont you try biotic power detonation combined with ammo primers such as incendiary and cryo against collector before assuming it not a issue? and against collector and even geth at that too

[visionazzery]

err Deerber with respect it a platinum and there no way in that forum is discerns or distinguished between the few geth and the non existent collectors in that links solo not a good example sorry to say.

[lfc19titles]

Pretty much everyone knows biotics are 2nd rate compared to tech classes now...of course that does not mean biotics are useless or not playable, they are still good to play with, I think the point TS is making is that Techs are more EFFECTIVE and EASIER to play than biotics due to the mechanics of the game favoring techs

The Tech buffs were needed as they were useless, I think biotic explosions do indeed need a damage buff (especially on higher difficulties) also they should have over ridden by techs

[visionazzery]

someone should seriously consider presenting the case to show that this is fixed and this happened to be a one week irregularity of a major glitch...i also assuming rightly or wrongly here that the only pple who commented are tech oriented classes dont worry bioware looks after you guys tenfold more than biotics

[Deerber]

visionazzery wrote...

err Deerber with respect it a platinum and there no way in that forum is discerns or distinguished between the few geth and the non existent collectors in that links solo not a good example sorry to say.

Lol. I'm done here. Coming back a bit later in your MP experience...

[lfc19titles]

Deerber wrote...

1 - inb4GrumpyOldWizard

2- are you aware of this?

Isn't that on the PC? I believe it is, MUCH easier with a fast moving character like the fury to avoid being hit....still very impressive, I think TS has been misunderstodd

[visionazzery]

Cheers ifc a credible explanation but just cos it happening does not mean us biotic oriented players should accept it and continue to object loudly against bioware;'s anti-biotic discrimination here.

If the mechanics of the game favour tech classes...it simply cos as their balance changes state week in and week out unjustifyingly more effort and focus to balance change tech oriented powers and classes over biotics...and when you consider that sentinels are supposed to be and so far are 50% tech and biotic 50% as well...how the hell can bioware ever justify for even me3 mplayer but it still mass effect albeit the mplayer way, neglecting biotic oriented balance changes? if the premise as you say is based on tech gameplay mechanics why is it there been a equal no of biotic classes introduced to tech? unless i mistaken? and that as statistical fact majority of biotic/ tech combo fired in one power by biotic classes do not work against collector and half against geth? are bioware gonna comment here? it a test to see how accountable they be. My comments are intended to provoke bioware here in a proactive way us bioware class players DEMAND A RESOLUTION TO THIS MESS!

[visionazzery]

Deerber wrote...

visionazzery wrote...

err Deerber with respect it a platinum and there no way in that forum is discerns or distinguished between the few geth and the non existent collectors in that links solo not a good example sorry to say.

Lol. I'm done here. Coming back a bit later in your MP experience...

Deerber you dead wrong bout your example sorry.. i very much doubt one evidence of premise of the topic of that solo plainum that the player who did that topic for fury platinum solo actually kept track of which individual enemies in the maze that is platinum he detonated and which did not and i talkign combined tech explosion generated by detonation type ammo plus biotic detonation not one or the other which YOU misunderstand and deerber i said against COLLECTOR AND GETH it a problem not reaper which that great master paltinum was

Modifié par visionazzery, 17 février 2013 - 02:51 .

[dahilla]

Get offa my law, you darn kids! *shakefist* Ahem. But seriously...

visionazzery wrote...

2. Warp misses the target way more than it used to

...happens to me all the time. Irritating, yes. Dangerous, true. But then I host the game and all is well again. So perhaps once the servers are a bit more stable, and the lag is a bit less severe, we can take another look at this? Because things being what they are, I'm inclined to blame the above issues on the connection, rather than the mechanics.

When hosting, The Fury, Huntress and most Vanguards are amazing. Mostly the Fury. As much as I like the tech classes, Biosploding is just fun. Again, especially chainBEs with the Fury. Nothing wrong with the classes themselves, i my semi-humble and highly subjective opinion.

And did I mention the Fury already?

Don't hate the player, hate the lag.

[visionazzery]

Good to see some people actually contributing and making sense to the issues i raise
and IF indeed it a connection issue i tell you as fact my connection for my internet by my isp has been boosted tenfold recently
and this problem occurred AFTER that I did bnot host i admit when the problem emerged and no evidence of global connection base lag in the games i did not host so that out right? So there one other culprit and clearly it pisses a lot of players of.. the sorry state of the ea servers right? but that does not make sense does it?

[visionazzery]

p.s. deerber the fury using warp ammo and warp ammo specifically is something i did not address as i not tested it with that yet. it you who needs some more mplayuer epxerience mate

[Draining Dragon]

inb4youhumansareallracist

[Arppis]

I personaly didn't like Biotics... but Vanguard class made them fun in 2nd game.

Tech and Combat is where my heart is.

[Lajkos]

visionazzery wrote...

 Is this a cruel joke?

A Cruel hoax on bioware;s part?

Arguably the most distinguished of powers that makes mass effect mass effect are the biotic classes. Sure in singleplayer they largely fine. 

BUT then you go into mplayer and this is what i discovered and this i afraid is the shocking truth:

1. Ammo powers combined with detonation powers such as warp- i.e. incendiary with warp against collectors only does a successful combined biotic and fire explosion a dismal 18% of the time and that with any class with a built specced in the skill tree to deal maximum detonation effect and damage.

2. Warp misses the target way more than it used to- meaning a further reduction from 18% of the time to detonate combined biotic and tech explosions to bout 10% keep in mind these are estimates but i believe after testing it comprohensivley repeatedly both tech explosions generated by warp combined with detonaton ammo of cryo, incendiary or disruptor rounds work more against reaper, cerberus and geth. (Even then it worth noting half the time it should work as combined tech detonation with biotic explosion geth have the problem but less so than against collectors.

Then when i did a series of squad games guess which class got the fire explosions and cryo explosions when i used an asari huntress infiltrator for instance- paladin, vorcha, engineer, destroyer. Is anyone else seeing a sinister pattern here?

Who else thinks it time for bioware to come clean and admit they concealed this problem for us for way longer than they should?

What the point of equipping detonation ammo types for biotic classes if of all enemies total between all enemy classes and types, when combining constant problems with tech detonation on geth and collector caused by combined ammo and biotic expllosions, an alarming third of all enemy races do not detonate when playing biotic type characters?

And why the hell suddenly does warp miss it target even when it a direct straight line pathway to the target?!!

I particularly outraged as like so many others i a biotic player at heart.  But i greatly fear bioware seem to either have something wrong with the detonation caused by biotic classes and when they wield smg- This i firmly believe is the next biggest biotic class problem and most troubling since the vanguard glitch shall we call this the biotic powers glitch?

Who else is annoyed at bioware about their oversights with this? comment

The reason why tech powers are favoured now is becaus at the launch of the game AA was considered the most OP class and BW really over did it when to tried to balance it out.
And ofc there is the powercreep that in general have favored tech becaus there isn't much to add to the biotic section. Most of the biotics that need to be there are there 

[MasterPeras]

I agree that BE's need a buff, and tbe fact that some tech powers cancel the priming effect of biotics but that is something like the missile glitch-unintentional and very hard to fix.
Still buffs are welcome

[Titus Thongger]

I think biotics are fine. I find a 4 man biotic death squad > 4 man tech squad

[StarCynic]

If I understand the OP correctly (which I'm not quite certain of, the grammar is horrible), then he's complaining about biotic primers being overwritten by any tech power or priming ammo, and that while biotic powers detonate all those tech/ammo primers, no tech or combat abilities can detonate biotic primers.
Which, to some extend, turns any biotic into a pure detonator-b_tch for tech and combat classes when grouped with those.

If so, the complaint is quite legit, and biotic explosions should be priorized if a biotic detonator ability hits a multi-primed target.
Of course, this would require a patch most likely, so it's not going to happen, is it?

[KeeperB5]

Tech does not cancel biotic priming, it adds on top of it. You still have biotic primer on target after tech has been detonated. The problem is getting to that biotic primer as other players are constantly spamming other tech effects on top of the biotic primer, making detonating it at times pretty much impossible. And not all biotic classes have the luxury of having the fastest cooldown detonator, throw. Hell, even cooldown specced throw has difficulties getting to biotic primers if other three players have tech classes.

In addition, while biotic detonators also detonate tech primers, tech detonators do not detonate biotic primers. I believe the solution would be as simple as allowing non-biotic detonators to detonate biotic primers, just like biotic detonators detonate non-biotic primers. For example, overload would detonate either biotic explosion or fire explosion depending on whichever was applied last before overload hits.

The alternative would be to remove biotic detonators ability to detonate tech primers. That way your throw would detonate warp every time no matter what tech primers are on target. But that would really hurt at least vanguards, not sure about other classes.

Allowing tech detonators to detonate biotic primers would be the best solution for everyone involved. Unless BW comes up with even clever solution, but at least this wouldn't really need much effort to put in. But it would make game a bit easier, but then again, BW does like buffing enemies anyway.

I sincerely hope BW will have this issue addressed with the next multiplayer DLC. I too would love to get back to playing biotic classes. At the moment it's really not worth the trouble in pugs at least.

Modifié par KeeperB5, 17 février 2013 - 04:06 .

[Shampoohorn]

Titus Thongger wrote...

I think biotics are fine. I find a 4 man biotic death squad > 4 man tech squad

4 man? Have you ever faced an asari commando unit before? Few humans have.

OP, your points do show a lack of understanding of many of the game mechanics around biotics and combos.
First off, reave only detonates biotics not tech combos so the tech overlay is a non issue for that power. Second,on all but the least communicative pugs it's fairly easy to get both the tech and biotic combos off on a single target. Lastly, biotic combos are almost always bigger, better and stronger than tech thanks to detonation bonuses and inherent bonuses to barriers and shields. Sabotage is the only power that provides a working tech combo bonus, as compared to lash, throw, warp, shockwaves, and pull.

[HolyAvenger]

Titus Thongger wrote...

I think biotics are fine. I find a 4 man biotic death squad > 4 man tech squad

 

Biotics get exponentially stronger with every added biotic character on a team. Short of 4 GIs, 4 biotics is probably one of the strongers combinations in the game. 

[dahilla]

StarCynic wrote...

If I understand the OP correctly

Let's work on the that assumption, I'm not entirely sure either.

StarCynic wrote...

biotic primers being overwritten by any tech power or priming ammo, and that while biotic powers detonate all those tech/ammo primers, no tech or combat abilities can detonate biotic primers (...) Which, to some extend, turns any biotic into a pure detonator-b_tch for tech and combat classes when grouped with those.

Matter of perspective, I'd say. Seeing as the explosion is credited to the primer, not the detonator, the *kill* will be credited to the non-biotic, however the points are actually distributed according to damage (or an approximation thereof - this is my understanding, anyway). Are the biotics forced into a detonator-role? The argument could be made that they get robbed of the killcount if so, but then, quite a few biotic classes can prime and detonate their own bursts.

Meanwhile, apart from the Engineers (and the Paladin, who has somehow mistakenly boarded the wrong train and ened up being a Sentinel, when he is clearly an engineer as well), few tech - and even fewer combat - classes are completely independent in setting up explosions (ammo mods notwithstanding).

I'm not sure the issue, if present, is all that severe. Perhaps adding a second type of "biotic" ammo mod (as there is only one, versus the 3? 4? tech mods) would help to alleviate this. But all in all... the detonator gets the BOOM. and who doesn't like the BOOM? I'ev always simply thought it to be a specific of the "class", and don't mind it.