114 réponses à ce sujet

[visionazzery]

Allly u totally get what I saying well done. That soome pple here believe tech is better is proof for some tech unit players view bioware have sought to undermine biotic detonate. classes . Note bioware rep allarming silence in this topic...

[visionazzery]

Let go through the biotic detonator abilities how many are there vs. Tech detonators?
1. Shockwave which is still inconsistent
2. Cluster biotic grenaades
3. Lift grenades
4. Throw
5. Pull

Tech
1. Frag grenade
2. Incinerate
3. Snap freeze
4. Overload
5. Cluster missile
6. Geth turret

Note snap freeze cast twice in succession or Geth turret cast in frozen target acts as a detonator as well as primer.

Now, simple math . Warp and shockwaves inconsistent and against collector and sometimes Geth way less effective vs. Compared to tech detonators they detonate majority of the time all of them. So in comparison only 3.5 out of 5 biotic detonaters work against every enemy every time when primed with cryo, incendiary, disruptor.

Bias much excessively in favour of tech? If I bmissed any detonator powers for either biotic or tech let me knw. What say u to the evidence bioware?

[Dorick]

I chuckled when I read this post. Biotics had an advantage for a long time, and are still very good. All they did was balance it so tech powers werent inferior. 

also, if you want to talk about class discrimination, only one class gets favor: the infiltrators. 

[Uchimura]

visionazzery wrote...

 Is this a cruel joke?

This must be.

[Titus Thongger]

before tech was laughably weak and biotics were awesome.

tech has since been buffed to be awesome.

biotics are still awesome.

AND THUS ALL WAS WELL.

/thread.

[Cyonan]

For the record on damage:

All combos deal the same base damage(100-250) while +combo damage modifiers are much more abundant within biotics than they are within tech. When you look at defence modifiers you get:

BE - 2x vs barriers/armour
CE - No modifiers
FE - 2x vs armour
TB - 2x vs shields

So BEs are still the top damage, except for the N7 Paladin's Cryo Explosion which is in fact bugged and should not be working on protected targets.

Where the techs pick things up are in the raw damage of the powers due to them being designed to counter specific defences. Overload/Energy Drain does insane amounts of damage to barriers and shields while Incinerate does a ton to armour, especially if chilled. Flamer melts armour as though it were some kind of fire based Reegar Carbine.

Talking about ammo powers, biotics should be taking Warp Rounds, which does absurd amounts of damage to biotically primed targets. Yes an Engineer can make good use of it, but they aren't even in the same ballpark as the biotics are. Making use of the infamous Warp + Incendiary bug also produces hilariously overpowered amounts of damage on certain weapons(but this is a bug).

In the above post Vision, you also missed a ton of detonators on both sides. Pretty much anything that deals direct damage will detonate, with biotics requiring a biotic detonator.

One thing worthy of note is that the two best combo spammers in lone play are the N7 Fury who can machine gun BEs and the Drell Adept who completely annihilates anything that looks at him the wrong way.

If you look at teamplay, then N7 Paladin + Chain Overload becomes the winner, but only because of Snap Freeze's bugs. Without the "primes anything" bug the best combo would be handed back to Drell Adept and Asari Justicar combined with somebody else because Reave.

[visionazzery]

Dorick wrote...

I chuckled when I read this post. Biotics had an advantage for a long time, and are still very good. All they did was balance it so tech powers werent inferior. 

also, if you want to talk about class discrimination, only one class gets favor: the infiltrators. 

and i bemused with respect to your assumption and theory here...why? cos while techs i acknowledge were weaker initially bioware unjustifyably has undermined some SOME biotic powers and classes. So if we follow your distorted logic, you suggesting AFTER techs were balanced it it was ok for bioware to undermine certain biotic classes+ detonator powers combined with standard ammo ttypes which leads to me rebuttting what someone else said on the ammo and the classes

And err...there should not be a hard and fast rule whoever said or conjured the fantasy tha warp rounds is the only ammo best suited to biotic classes?

That rubbish you might as well abolish fireexplosions altogether and cryo explosions caused by primer type ammo in cryo or incendiary for anyone that adapts that narrow outlook.

And people complaining that fire explosion immediately after biotic explosion in the same time the power is cast as say, warp on a burning or frozen target, what wrong with the double damage bonus? or those very few complaining bout fire explosions following biotic explosions being OP are secretly tech bias mplayer players? i wonder...i welcome any constructive rebuttle but try to present some proof for those of you who are prepared to contribute constructively to this important topic.

here an idea why dont we just have one ammo power armor piercing? maybe then those of you that complain unjustifyingly that cryo explosions detonated off frozen ammo following biotic explosions would bring a theoretical so called 'balance; between tech and biotics? give me a break! 

[GriM_AoD]

inb4GrumpyOldWizard

[Deerber]

GriM_AoD wrote...

inb4GrumpyOldWizard

You're late to the party, kid 

[HolyAvenger]

The only thing I dislike about biotics currently (apart from few powers that need tweaks) is that in a lack of synergy when playing with mostly tech and combat kits (due to ammo powers) meaning that it in order to do the most BEs and damage, I'm Lone Wolfing it away from my teammates. Not sure how to fix this.

[GriM_AoD]

Deerber wrote...

GriM_AoD wrote...

inb4GrumpyOldWizard

You're late to the party, kid 

lol. 
I missed that.

You win this round...

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

DPS is king in ME3, which is a reason biotics suck compared to other
classes. And for the most part the high DPS classes have lots more
health/sheilds or can turn invisible.

The only adepts that don't
have problems in public games are the grenade chunkers and the fury. 
That is because they are less cooldown dependent (grenades have no
cooldowns, anhilation field autoprimes.)  Not having cooldown issues
means they can usually get off their BE before the prime on the enemy is
overwritten or the enemy is killed by a squad mate.  Although that is
also requireing each of those classes to be in close quarters.

Biotics are now a rare breed in ME3 multiplayer because of changes  Bioware has made to the game.  I play biotics more than anything else because I like "space magic," even though playing a shooty class is much more effective.  I don't use the incendiary ammo exploit.

Weapon spam >>>>>>>>  Tech spam >>>>>>>>> Biotic spam

Biotics in general suck compared to weapon spam classes because:
1)  Biotic powers do poor damage per second

2)  Biotics do poor damage without biotic explosions

3)  Biotic explosions can be very difficult to pull off in public games because:
        a) Everyone guns for whatever target you prime.  Seriously.      
        Tech powers and tech ammo (which everybody uses) overwrite your
             biotic prime.  One overload spammer/tech ammo user can shut down your
             BEs completely if he wants to.
        c) Cooldowns are too long, in general.

4) No equipment at all increases your BE damage, which is the main source of damage for biotics.   Shooty classes have multiple consumables to increase damage, as well as the gear slot.  And no equipment significanly increases the damage of biotic powers.

5)  The increase in biotic power damage from consumables and gear is negligible.

6) Biotics tend to have poor hit points/shields and run and gun has been forced on everyone on every map.  The armor slot also requires them to chose between survivability (cyclonic armor) and a minimal increase in damage of their biotic powers (Power Amp.) Also, the fast pace of  the game and cover busting enemies make surviving as a squishy class much harder.

7)  Anti power enemies

8)  Anti power faction (collector)

9)  Insane dodge rate of projectile powers

10)  Nerf of biotic expolosions that happened a while back.

As a result, guns and grenades dominate the game.

Biotics in public games are a pretty rare breed as a result of these issues.  And those few you see are mostly packing overpowered weapons like the harrier and use that to kill enemies instead of focusing on their powers because their powers are so ineffective compared to weapon spam.

[Deerber]

 Ooooh... I was a bit worried when I didn't see you posting in this thread for entire days, Grumpy.
I am pleased now 

[SinerAthin]

Bioware doesn't favor any class, type or weapon.

They are simply terrible at balancing.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Deerber wrote...

 Ooooh... I was a bit worried when I didn't see you posting in this thread for entire days, Grumpy.
I am pleased now 

I've moved on to other games, mostly, besides the weekend op.  Only one game was needed for this past op, which I did with the huntress in a random gold game.  I need to play a little more to keep my Readiness up though as I'll be starting a new single player game when the next DLC comes out. I played through Dead Space 3 though I've not played the multiplayer component and I've been playing some XCOM:EU.

Bioware is certainly aware of the issues involving Biotics in multiplayer games, as I and others have been bringing up the issues for some time now, but so far I've not seen any comments from them about the issues or any indication that they plan to address any of the issues.  I strongly suspect that whatever is not addressed in the upcoming DLC won't be addressed.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 18 février 2013 - 03:15 .

[lightswitch]

I don't even care about the tech combos versus biotic combos thing because for some reason I don't feel like I'm affected by it as much as some people claim they are. I play the HSent almost every day at least once, I set off BEs pretty much as fast as I can and it's rare I'll have someone spamming overload so much as to actually inhibit my ability to do so significantly.

Also, it's very clear Bioware isn't showing favouritism to tech classes because tech combos are so weak. The best BEs in the game do 4000+ damage, a fire explosion against armor only does about 1700.

Modifié par lightswitch, 18 février 2013 - 03:39 .

[Fortack]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

As a result, guns and grenades dominate the game.

Yeah, characters with biotic powers don't have guns and nades, right?

[PnXMarcin1PL]

OMG OMG BIOWARE HATES BIOTICS/SPELLCASTERS!
THIS IS EA CONSPIRACY, PRE-ORDER CANCELLED!

[FateNeverEnds]

I've noticed this too.

I like to equip incendiary ammo on my biotic kits to get primed objectives all around, whether FEs or BEs, but indeed many times enemies won't catch on fire after a bullet burst or two so there's no explosion when I cast a detonating power. It's kinda frustrating and I'm gradually stopping to use my biotics to in their place use more tech power-based kits.

Edit: Whenever I get a team full of people willing to play a match or two with biotics things do tend to flow more smoothly than with a tech-oriented one. But being a lonely biotic amongst techs doesn't help much.

Modifié par FateNeverEnds, 18 février 2013 - 04:21 .

[KeeperB5]

I never have seen much point in ammo detonations, the resulting explosion is diminutive in damage and only hampers real powers from doing their job. Ammo detonations hurt both tech and biotic kits and kills enemies slower. BW should remove detonation from ammo, it's not like anyone needs them.

Then either remove biotic detonators ability to detonate tech powers, or allow tech & combat detonators to detonate biotic powers and we're set.

Equality to tech and biotic detonation mechanics. That's all.

Modifié par KeeperB5, 18 février 2013 - 04:30 .

[visionazzery]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Deerber wrote...

 Ooooh... I was a bit worried when I didn't see you posting in this thread for entire days, Grumpy.
I am pleased now 

I've moved on to other games, mostly, besides the weekend op.  Only one game was needed for this past op, which I did with the huntress in a random gold game.  I need to play a little more to keep my Readiness up though as I'll be starting a new single player game when the next DLC comes out. I played through Dead Space 3 though I've not played the multiplayer component and I've been playing some XCOM:EU.

Bioware is certainly aware of the issues involving Biotics in multiplayer games, as I and others have been bringing up the issues for some time now, but so far I've not seen any comments from them about the issues or any indication that they plan to address any of the issues.  I strongly suspect that whatever is not addressed in the upcoming DLC won't be addressed.

Well then can we conclude ea is dictating the agenda and bioware influence is being diminished over 'creative artistic integrity' for mplayer just like splayer but in tyhe context of mplayer?

do they not regard pple's concerns.?

For me this is now the most viewed topic more importantly it one of the higher viewed topics in mplayer section outside of official bioware announcements. if this is not a wake up call to you bioware i do not know what the bloody hell is

and if tech detonations are weaker than pure biotic of course they shoudl balance it out- without taking away from biotics.

[Jesse]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

DPS is king in ME3, which is a reason biotics suck compared to other
classes. And for the most part the high DPS classes have lots more
health/sheilds or can turn invisible.

The only adepts that don't
have problems in public games are the grenade chunkers and the fury. 

My only exception to the all biotics thing,a nd adding to what you said here, is the Huntress Infiltrator (which can of course turn invisible).

For the weeknd operation just gone, like you, I played as the Huntress and besides getting a very healthy score, simply melted any Brute/Banshee/Ravager that was unlucky to get in my aim radius. She just melts barrier and armour, without any help from weapons or ammo powers. for instance, while cleaning up wave 7 or 8, hit one Banshee with a cloaked DC (TC and passive specced for full power dmg of course) and that was all it took, while I was chased by other enemies, to kill her.

Huntress is probably the one kit i will go into Gold games happily with, and maybe struggle with against geth. But then, she isn't so much about BE's, as pure melting ability.

[Klokos]

Biotic are freaks and should be terminated on sight. I support Bioware/EA action, For a pure Human race.

[ASmoothCriminalx]

dahilla wrote...

Matter of perspective, I'd say. Seeing as the explosion is credited to the primer, not the detonator, the *kill* will be credited to the non-biotic, however the points are actually distributed according to damage (or an approximation thereof - this is my understanding, anyway). Are the biotics forced into a detonator-role? The argument could be made that they get robbed of the killcount if so, but then, quite a few biotic classes can prime and detonate their own bursts.

Meanwhile, apart from the Engineers (and the Paladin, who has somehow mistakenly boarded the wrong train and ened up being a Sentinel, when he is clearly an engineer as well), few tech - and even fewer combat - classes are completely independent in setting up explosions (ammo mods notwithstanding).

I'm not sure the issue, if present, is all that severe. Perhaps adding a second type of "biotic" ammo mod (as there is only one, versus the 3? 4? tech mods) would help to alleviate this. But all in all... the detonator gets the BOOM. and who doesn't like the BOOM? I'ev always simply thought it to be a specific of the "class", and don't mind it.

Play with a snap freeze spamming Paladin and use a class like the AA, where you need warp + throw for a BE (or stasis+throw, though I never do). You will probably set off 3 CEs for the Paladin for every BE you set off for yourself. Yes, the Primer gets the credit for the explosion and kills credited to the tech explosion.

@OP, my understanding is that you feel biotic powers don't detonate ammo applied effects as well as other powers.. I can say I have never noticed anything of the sort. You were likely experiencing the joys of using warp (also throw) on a bad host.

If you have enough experience in knowing what ammo types can prime which defenses (disruptor-any; cryo-health; incendiary-armor and health) and can accurately recognize the "prime" you will not notice a problem in detonating that effect. You also need to be able to recognize other primers from your teammates. Some players I've played with don't even notice when a techburst steals their detonation, and are confused that "nothing happened".

[ASmoothCriminalx]

KeeperB5 wrote...

BW should remove detonation from ammo, it's not like anyone needs them.

Some classes' need the extra damage output from detonating ammo effects, IMO. Particularly engineers and any other tech-based, non-inf, non-soldier classes. Or at least ammo effects help these classes to boost their DPS.

And I think people underestimate how quickly these effects can be detonated to clear way for BEs or other power-based explosions. I only get truly bothered by tech powers overriding my BE when my detonating power has a long cooldown like shockwave or warp.