114 réponses à ce sujet

[Philonius]

I guess I'm the only person that had the game at launch because anyone that had the game at launch would have known that tech explosions ONLY HAPPENED when you killed the mob with the detonating power. While AA's ran amok as one man death squads BiSploding anything in sight.

Tech classes were virtually useless and Banshee's damn near always took a missile to put down, Things are moreso on an even playing field now.

[ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame]

Biotic explosions are technically faster to set off than tech bursts/explosions. People start saying tech is easier because warp ammo doesn't set up biotic explosions.

I love how your test is based on the ammo. Makes me laugh. If they made warp ammo set up biotic explosions then those would be set off all the time. Only problem is that would require a patch and not a behind the scenes server side fix.

I remember when biotics were everywhere and people complained that tech players were ignored. Bioware then patched tech explosions while nerfing biotics. Now biotics are crying they're being ignored.

Our community is like a teeter totter. We can't make up our minds. It's so sad.

[visionazzery]

ASmoothCriminalx wrote...

KeeperB5 wrote...

BW should remove detonation from ammo, it's not like anyone needs them.

Some classes' need the extra damage output from detonating ammo effects, IMO. Particularly engineers and any other tech-based, non-inf, non-soldier classes. Or at least ammo effects help these classes to boost their DPS.

And I think people underestimate how quickly these effects can be detonated to clear way for BEs or other power-based explosions. I only get truly bothered by tech powers overriding my BE when my detonating power has a long cooldown like shockwave or warp.

SPOT ON MY POINT EXACTLY! some classes not all of course i acknowledge that but for those that need the extra damage bonus with ammo types..and by the by what happened to polonium rounds? with chemical burn effect?

if they really want to discern between 'tech' oriented ammo and 'biotic' though imo they all should be adaptable and for one and the same purpose between biotic and tech , then why not introduce a ammo type with a subtle dark channel effect like polonium rounds? which can be primed for biotic detonation? 

[Deerber]

My bad... How on Earth is this thread still going?

[visionazzery]

ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame wrote...

Biotic explosions are technically faster to set off than tech bursts/explosions. People start saying tech is easier because warp ammo doesn't set up biotic explosions.

I love how your test is based on the ammo. Makes me laugh. If they made warp ammo set up biotic explosions then those would be set off all the time. Only problem is that would require a patch and not a behind the scenes server side fix.

I remember when biotics were everywhere and people complained that tech players were ignored. Bioware then patched tech explosions while nerfing biotics. Now biotics are crying they're being ignored.

Our community is like a teeter totter. We can't make up our minds. It's so sad.

oh really you find that funny? then why dont you actually judge your reaction AFTER you 'test' with a character and class that requires ammo and why dont you try to do a gold or platinum solo in a reasonable timeframe WITHOUT THE EXTRA damage bonus, and err..i do not speak on behalf of the community.

Mixed opinions are good i like how pple twist my words..not

I simply saying that biotics are undermined in certain powers with certain ammo type combinations after techs i agreed needed enhancements. Now they had it so why did they have to undo the biotic capabilitieswith some powers and ammo combinations?

Do not be too eager to dismiss ammo...if we take your attitude ammo types are useless but it adds the one constant that SUPPOSED to equally benefit both tech and biotics.

No biotic powers in some capacity are undermined in wake of tech buffs. bioware need to learn when to keep tabs on things done prior to their buffs- and nerfs...and undermining is worse than ignoring- i be totally happy if they did not touch biotic powers at all..other than the buffs after they buffed techs bigtime..them undermining biotic classes is a very serious charge it an allegation that implies that bioware are out of touch. by the simple fact they turn their backs on the most distiinguished of classes that makes mass effect mass effect not just the soldier and techs but the biotic classes as well.

I advocate balance clearly you do not.

[visionazzery]

Deerber wrote...

My bad... How on Earth is this thread still going?

err..because while bioware refuse to be forthright with their own community and loyal fans- us, (and i heard grave reports of hidden changes that have been made stealthily without publicizing it  in the balance changes weekly) and a lot of people are outraged- while some agree that indirectly this issue goes to the heart of the point of balance between the classes and the point of which properties such as ammo as an example- i encourage others to find many other examples of more 'common' equipment that favours unbalanced one type of class over the other..and how not addressing this issue considerably jeopardizes the so called 'balance' between biotics and techs.

i not disputing individual balance changes, but i am indeed suggesting and imploring bioware to wake up to themselves and realize that balances need to be relative between tech and biotics not one over the other not biotics over tech or tech over biotics..how bout balance...and this is what pple are clearly concerned about..

[lightswitch]

Deerber wrote...

My bad... How on Earth is this thread still going?

Too much of the old guard is either gone or barely around, so there's no one to set people straight any more.

This OP is just absurd though. I can't tell if he really thinks there's actually a conspiracy against biotics or if he just a dedicated troll.

Modifié par lightswitch, 19 février 2013 - 07:13 .

[UnknownMercenary]

I could spend time refuting a lot of these terrible points but I think "L2P" fits better.

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

Modifié par Qui-Gon Glenn, 19 février 2013 - 07:24 .

[ReddWolfwood1]

HolyAvenger wrote...

The only thing I dislike about biotics currently (apart from few powers that need tweaks) is that in a lack of synergy when playing with mostly tech and combat kits (due to ammo powers) meaning that it in order to do the most BEs and damage, I'm Lone Wolfing it away from my teammates. Not sure how to fix this.

my thoughts as well. if im the only biotic i stay away from all the glory stealing combat/tech specialist.

last night i was playing with my justicar and two tech guys. then a krogan shaman came in and we were BFF's for life haha while the two techies who doing their thing we were on the other side of the map doing ours

and you know what, we outscored the techies

biotics 1 tech 0

in anycase biotics are still awesome. OP if you havnt played with the huntress, valkerie, Fury, krogaurd then you should. you will dominate the match. especially if you have some biotic friends

[Cainhurst Crow]

Is that why biotics get all the cool and multipurpose powers while tech has a lot of powers that barly do anything against enemies?

Name me a biotic equivilant of sabotauge in mp? I want to know what biotic ability is so niche that it's only useful against 1 of the 4 factions.

[Saints]

[Malanek]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Is that why biotics get all the cool and multipurpose powers while tech has a lot of powers that barly do anything against enemies?

Name me a biotic equivilant of sabotauge in mp? I want to know what biotic ability is so niche that it's only useful against 1 of the 4 factions.

Pull. Oh wait, thats not useful against anything.


Ultimately this is a bit silly though. Originally, if anything was discriminated against it would be tech powers. Fire and Cryo explosions would only trigger on death and tech bursts were much much weaker than biotic explosions. That got changed and Biotics did get a bit burried under the layer of tech primers. But they're still useful and warp ammo is hugely powerful.

If anything, I think Bioware should be looking at some gear to really help power users in general, as your manifest gets fuller, guns slowly start to make various powers a bit obsolete in comparison.

[visionazzery]

now that makes sense Malanek! A great idea.

And i totalyl for constructive feedback that not in favour of the maters i raise. This whole point which the trolls that seek to abuse for the sake of grabbing attention or there got nothing better to do the OP)

But to clarify...I have noticed again that certain powers to not detonate off of primed ammo. It gives a lot of people the impression strongly that bioware does not care for biotics. Again to clarify to those ignoarant who are incapable of putting in context what i say, that i all for balance...but at a certain point given the hundred percent consistency or at least closer to achieving such in contrast to biotics, whereas tech classes get the damage bonus largely overall in comparison to biotics, when wielding primer ammo to detonate, and that after the tech classes NEEDED a enhancement which i was all for. Bioware neglected biotics since.the last major balance change was with a primer power...how bout making watp hit it target more so than it does- even when the cursor is over the target warp power does not hit the power at a distance and another thing- bioware shoudl clarify how far the maximum range of the abilitiy should extend to hit an ammo primed target now wouldn't that be great? to see what the range of each power is? maybe that would clarify whether or not indeed there is a detonation fault with ammo primed powers or not? between biotics and tech biotics do not get the damage bonus. fo certain powers.

Saints, i luv your interpretation of my topic hilarious and in a way somewhat true except i not poutting a gun to bioware's head lol....i be willing to 'negotiate' with them..but a classic moment to encapsulate the time biotics need attention...if they fix this ammo powers disrepancy in GROUP GAMES when you are not hosting.

Then fine...that all a lot of people here want...not to radically enhance biotics to superhuman status:O lol

[Cyonan]

visionazzery wrote...

now that makes sense Malanek! A great idea.

And i totalyl for constructive feedback that not in favour of the maters i raise. This whole point which the trolls that seek to abuse for the sake of grabbing attention or there got nothing better to do the OP)

But to clarify...I have noticed again that certain powers to not detonate off of primed ammo. It gives a lot of people the impression strongly that bioware does not care for biotics. Again to clarify to those ignoarant who are incapable of putting in context what i say, that i all for balance...but at a certain point given the hundred percent consistency or at least closer to achieving such in contrast to biotics, whereas tech classes get the damage bonus largely overall in comparison to biotics, when wielding primer ammo to detonate, and that after the tech classes NEEDED a enhancement which i was all for. Bioware neglected biotics since.the last major balance change was with a primer power...how bout making watp hit it target more so than it does- even when the cursor is over the target warp power does not hit the power at a distance and another thing- bioware shoudl clarify how far the maximum range of the abilitiy should extend to hit an ammo primed target now wouldn't that be great? to see what the range of each power is? maybe that would clarify whether or not indeed there is a detonation fault with ammo primed powers or not? between biotics and tech biotics do not get the damage bonus. fo certain powers.

Saints, i luv your interpretation of my topic hilarious and in a way somewhat true except i not poutting a gun to bioware's head lol....i be willing to 'negotiate' with them..but a classic moment to encapsulate the time biotics need attention...if they fix this ammo powers disrepancy in GROUP GAMES when you are not hosting.

Then fine...that all a lot of people here want...not to radically enhance biotics to superhuman status:O lol

If you wanted a constructive topic you'd have done better without the tinfoil hat title claiming that BioWare is favouring one ability type over another =P

Anything that deals direct damage will detonate ammo powers(If I remember right, Reave will as well even though it's not direct damage). Powers like Stasis and Pull don't detonate because they don't do direct damage. From the tech department, Submission Net and Cryo Blast don't detonate either.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Biotics are more particular to work with since BE's can only be primed by biotics and only detonated by other biotics, whereas tech explosions can be primed by tech or ammo and detonated by tech or biotics. Tech detonations also always take priority over biotic explosions. BE's are arguably better explosions than the tech explosions are due to higher damage, wider range, and better stagger.

In practice, I find tech to be more powerful for rag-tag teams like pugs, and biotics more powerful on organized teams who know how to make good use of them.

[Xiaolruc]

And people used to complain that ME2 favored Biotics far more than Techs.

Easiest fix for biotics is to prime a target with the biotic, use ammo (fire, for example) as a second prime, then throw two detonators for two separate explosions. Get dem cooldowns low, and it's all good.
Example: Use Warp-->Incendiary Rounds-->Throw-->Throw= Fire explosion followed by Biotic Explosion

Look, there's no way for BioWare to please everyone here. The system they have in place is pretty fair, when you think about it.
If they attempted to touch it up, everyone would fly into a tizzy about it 'being just fine before' or along the lines of 'why u nerf everythin biower'.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Xiaolruc wrote...

And people used to complain that ME2 favored Biotics far more than Techs.

Easiest fix for biotics is to prime a target with the biotic, use ammo (fire, for example) as a second prime, then throw two detonators for two separate explosions. Get dem cooldowns low, and it's all good.
Example: Use Warp-->Incendiary Rounds-->Throw-->Throw= Fire explosion followed by Biotic Explosion

Look, there's no way for BioWare to please everyone here. The system they have in place is pretty fair, when you think about it.
If they attempted to touch it up, everyone would fly into a tizzy about it 'being just fine before' or along the lines of 'why u nerf everythin biower'.

No, the current system is not fair at all.  Biotics can be completely shut down by tech ammo spammers and tech power spammers.  You can cast your detonator power multiple times and still not get a biotic explosion on the enemy you primed because your prime is constantlyl being overwritten by tech ammo or tech power spam.

That is one of the reasons biotics are now a rare breed in multiplayer. Not fair or balanced AT ALL.

If the biotic wants to set off biotic explosions he in public games he is usually forced to go lone wolf and stay away from the rest of the squad.

As I mentioned before, the adepts less affected by that paritular issue are the grenade chunkers and the Fury because they are not as cooldown dependant (grenades have no cooldown and anihilation field autoprimes)j and thus there is less opportunity for their primed targets to get overwritten by tech ammo/powers or to be killed by squad mates before the prime can be detonated.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 20 février 2013 - 08:14 .

[ASmoothCriminalx]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

No, the current system is not fair at all.  Biotics can be completely shut down by tech ammo spammers and tech power spammers.  You can cast your detonator power multiple times and still not get a biotic explosion on the enemy you primed because your prime is constantlyl being overwritten by tech ammo or tech power spam.

That is one of the reasons biotics are now a rare breed in multiplayer. Not fair or balanced AT ALL.

Depends on the biotic character and tech character in question. The only ammo type that constantly reprimes after detonation is Disruptor rounds.

A Paladin is the worst possible teammate (in regards to detonating BEs) if you are the only biotic on the team. If there are multiple biotics, then reave users can set off BEs without problem. Of course, the most powerful BEs in the game can easily be overridden by tech spamming. In my experience, though, only a Paladin will cause me grief as a Biotic character that isn't the Fury or Justicar.

Modifié par ASmoothCriminalx, 20 février 2013 - 08:15 .

[Cyonan]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

No, the current system is not fair at all.  Biotics can be completely shut down by tech ammo spammers and tech power spammers.  You can cast your detonator power multiple times and still not get a biotic explosion on the enemy you primed because your prime is constantlyl being overwritten by tech ammo or tech power spam.

That is one of the reasons biotics are now a rare breed in multiplayer. Not fair or balanced AT ALL.

If the biotic wants to set off biotic explosions he in public games he is usually forced to go lone wolf and stay away from the rest of the squad.

As I mentioned before, the adepts less affected by that paritular issue are the grenade chunkers and the Fury because they are not as cooldown dependant (grenades have no cooldown and anihilation field autoprimes)j and thus there is less opportunity for their primed targets to get overwritten by tech ammo/powers or to be killed by squad mates before the prime can be detonated.

If your target is being pelted with so many tech primers that you can't even get 2 Throws off without another primer being applied, you'd actually be hurting the team's overall damage by making Throw prioritize your own biotics and doing a normal rotation rather than simply just spamming Throw, like you probably would have if it was another Biotic.

[WARMACHINE9]

A) yes BE's could use a buff but tech burst really needed the buff they got because they were almost nigh impossible to pull off before.
Who the hell actually uses a weapon outside of an acolyte or arc pistol to strip shields on a biotic anyways?
C) yes it's a pain at how much biotic powers are dodged but try this throw, warp , throw, simple no?

[Deerber]

lightswitch wrote...

Deerber wrote...

My bad... How on Earth is this thread still going?

Too much of the old guard is either gone or barely around, so there's no one to set people straight any more.

This OP is just absurd though. I can't tell if he really thinks there's actually a conspiracy against biotics or if he just a dedicated troll.

Uhm... Dammit, where's Sirian when you need him... 

UnknownMercenary wrote...

I could spend time refuting a lot of these terrible points but I think "L2P" fits better.

My thoughts exactly :innocent:

Qui-Gon Glenn wrote...

LOL! 

[Colonel Sheppard]

Well, I play the fury and huntress a lot and they do just fine,even with overload happy turians on the team. Do I agree that tech powers should override biotics? No. Do I wish we could go back to the days when BE was boss? Yes, but as it is today, it's only a minor annoyance. If a teammate is using incendiary rounds and you detonate his FE, just throw the detonator again. I find I can get a consistent BE on the second detonation.

[darkpassenger2342]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

I could spend time refuting a lot of these terrible points but I think "L2P" fits better.

[KeeperB5]

visionazzery wrote...

ASmoothCriminalx wrote...

KeeperB5 wrote...

BW should remove detonation from ammo, it's not like anyone needs them.

Some classes' need the extra damage output from detonating ammo effects, IMO. Particularly engineers and any other tech-based, non-inf, non-soldier classes. Or at least ammo effects help these classes to boost their DPS.

And I think people underestimate how quickly these effects can be detonated to clear way for BEs or other power-based explosions. I only get truly bothered by tech powers overriding my BE when my detonating power has a long cooldown like shockwave or warp.

SPOT ON MY POINT EXACTLY! some classes not all of course i acknowledge that but for those that need the extra damage bonus with ammo types..and by the by what happened to polonium rounds? with chemical burn effect?

if they really want to discern between 'tech' oriented ammo and 'biotic' though imo they all should be adaptable and for one and the same purpose between biotic and tech , then why not introduce a ammo type with a subtle dark channel effect like polonium rounds? which can be primed for biotic detonation? 

Fair enough. In that case I would propose to change current layering system to priority system. As we know, currently detonations are prioritized based on when primer was applied. This means that if you apply primers in following order: warp, incinerate, incendiary ammo, they would be detonated exactly in reverse order.

What I propose is to change layer prioritization into type prioritiization. Biotics are detonated first, then tech powers and finally ammo. Earlier example of primers would now be detonated in following order: warp, incinerate, incendiary ammo. Meaning that ammo won't be detonated if target has any biotiic or tech primer applied. In addition, if target has biotic and tech or ammo primer applied, biotics will be detonated first when target is struck by a detonator capable of detonating biotics.

This would be fair for several reasons:
1) Biotics have far fewer detonators than tech powers do. Unlike biotics, tech can be detonated not just by other tech powers, but also by biotic and combat powers.
2) Tech power and ammo spammers will no longer lock biotic detonations out.
3) Ammo spammers will no longer prevent more damaging detonations from evolved tech powers.
4) Since tech powers are incapable of detonating biotics, it makes no difference to tech kits if biotic primer has priority over tech primer, a tech primer will be detonated regardless by another tech power.
5) Ammo can and will be detonated when target has no other primer that the detonator impacting can detonate. If target has biotic and ammo primer, but detonator can only detonate ammo, then ammo will be detonated instead of biotic.

This should make everyone happy, right?

Several examples follows.
- Target has warp and incendiary ammo primers. Target is impacted by throw, warp is detonated.
- Target has overload and warp primers. Target is impacted by incinerate, overload is detonated.
- Target has reave and incinerate primers. Target is impacted by warp, reave is detonated.
- Target has incinerate and disruptor ammo primers. Target is impacted by overload, incinerate is detonated.
- Target has dark channel and incendiary ammo primers. Target is impacted by overload, incendiary ammo is detonated.
- Target has warp and incinerate primers. Target is impacted by throw, warp is detonated.

Modifié par KeeperB5, 20 février 2013 - 10:49 .