259 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

@100RenegadePoints

Are you sure that it was 250FPS? Any kit with less then 900 shields wouldn't be able to recharge it's shields at all, making extraction very unlikely.

Yep, that was 250 fps, I used playclaw to display in game fps. The Kits used were TGI,TSent,QFI and Destroyer.

Edit: Ok, I guess these kits all had more than 900 shields.
I just tried the same thing with a Human Adept, this kit would hardly regenerate any shields at 250fps, maybe 10 shields in 20 seconds. Pretty terrible...

 

This is hilarious. And for a game of 2012 it's 5x more hilarious. Does anyone know if Gears Of War has the same problem? Or any other Unreal engine MP games? 

Video demonstrating the effects of a high frame rate on shield regeneration for certain kits:
(Frame rate is displayed in the video)



This is pretty bad...

LOL that is ridiculous

[Caratinoid]

About that shield recharge thing, I disassambled the code responsible for this. Your shields are stored in memory as a floating point number, how much shields you get each frame is calculated as a floating point number, however the result is then converted to integer and then back to float, making you lose the floating point part. Can be patched in memory, though not sure what bioware's policy on things like that is.

[spudspot]

Caratinoid wrote...

About that shield recharge thing, I disassambled the code responsible for this. Your shields are stored in memory as a floating point number, how much shields you get each frame is calculated as a floating point number, however the result is then converted to integer and then back to float, making you lose the floating point part. Can be patched in memory, though not sure what bioware's policy on things like that is.

So it's a rounding error?

[llandwynwyn]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Video demonstrating the effects of a high frame rate on shield regeneration for certain kits:
(Frame rate is displayed in the video)



This is pretty bad...

Collectors must be a nightmare.

[count_4]

Air Quotes wrote...

ToughReason wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

ToughReason wrote...

What is this s**t with PC Frames Per Second ? What is this all about ?

 

If you play with >30 FPS enemies become a lot more accurate and react 2x faster. 
If you play with <30 FPS the enemies are slower than a turtle going trough iconic state of bullet time and can't hit ****. 

And when <30 FPS on host , off hosts suffer spacemagic ?

 

Off hosts have an easiter game. With 60 FPS+ and especially 120+ - the enemies go insane. EVERYTHING will hit you. 

I usually play at 160+ FPS - can't say I noticed much insanity. 
Have to try out the 30 FPS trick, though, cause I'm not going to believe that a modern game/AI engine reacts differently based on the FPS until I see it myself...

[Credit2team]

llandwynwyn wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Video demonstrating the effects of a high frame rate on shield regeneration for certain kits:
(Frame rate is displayed in the video)



This is pretty bad...

Collectors must be a nightmare.

lol working as intened, right bioware?

[spudspot]

count_4 wrote...

I usually play at 160+ FPS - can't say I noticed much insanity. 
Have to try out the 30 FPS trick, though, cause I'm not going to believe that a modern game/AI engine reacts differently based on the FPS until I see it myself...

Well, I sometimes play on an old notebook at ~15fps, my usual host has - my guess based on the PC specs - 60fps. 

That definitely results in a lot 'wtf just killed me' moments.

[Credit2team]

has anyone tried single player to see if High FPS affects it as well? I'm very curious. If its truly an AI issue it should be present in both SP and MP

[Bariudol]

Air Quotes wrote...

The game is fundamentally broken. Experience varies DRASTICALLY depending on FPS. On modern game that's released in 2012 it's unacceptable. It should handle 60 FPS with no issues.

Yet it's made for 30 and with 60, you're fighting a 2x tougher enemies. All balance changes, all buffs and nerfs are meaningless, when the core is broken.  

And Bioware refuses to comment. 

So i've been playing a harder version of the game? thats... well, i feel really good about my self now haha

[Fortack]

What about health-/shield gate cooldowns? Are they gimped by high FPS too?

I'm pretty sure they work fine @ 60 FPS (never played at higher levels though) and gates are the important thing on gold+ to survive. I guess that might explain why some people swear by max fitness builds whereas others (like me) consider a little more health & shields almost useless (on gold+).

[Metandra]

Forgive my noobiness, but how exactly does one go about determining their FPS while in-game?

[spudspot]

Metandra wrote...

Forgive my noobiness, but how exactly does one go about determining their FPS while in-game?

Your own? Fraps.

The host's? You can't.

[Caratinoid]

@spudspot

Actually you can determine host frame rate by looking at network stream.

[spudspot]

Caratinoid wrote...

@spudspot

Actually you can determine host frame rate by looking at network stream.

Well, my bad, assumed it wasn't easily possible.

[Caratinoid]

Fortack wrote ...

What about health-/shield gate cooldowns? Are they gimped by high FPS too?

If you speek about automatic fire weapons then yes, less bullets will be blocked by shieldgate when running at a higher frame rate.

[Caratinoid]

^only true for gold and platinum

[KalilKareem]

This is just... I don't know.... How the ...... I mean seriously. Who the eff came up with the brilliant idea to use the _frame updates_ as the hearth beat of the game? And casting (float)(int)(float) is bad enough to get you flunked on junior grade programming courses :/

[Bariudol]

Air Quotes wrote...

This is hilarious. And for a game of 2012 it's 5x more hilarious. Does anyone know if Gears Of War has the same problem? Or any other Unreal engine MP games? 

Its not about the Engine, its about console porting, its easier and cheaper to consoles to calculate things based on frames (1 second / 30 frames), than making it on Deltatime steps (time from last frame), while delta time is way more precise the universal 30fps limitation on consoles makes it easier to program and cheaper to compute, the game is by design ment to be played at 30fps (even if i play it at 60fps).

[Linkinator]

the faster a game plays the better i am at playing it, i can stand games slower than 60fps i adept better to faster speeds

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Air Quotes wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

@100RenegadePoints

Are you sure that it was 250FPS? Any kit with less then 900 shields wouldn't be able to recharge it's shields at all, making extraction very unlikely.

Yep, that was 250 fps, I used playclaw to display in game fps. The Kits used were TGI,TSent,QFI and Destroyer.

Edit: Ok, I guess these kits all had more than 900 shields.
I just tried the same thing with a Human Adept, this kit would hardly regenerate any shields at 250fps, maybe 10 shields in 20 seconds. Pretty terrible...

 

This is hilarious. And for a game of 2012 it's 5x more hilarious. Does anyone know if Gears Of War has the same problem? Or any other Unreal engine MP games? 

I've seen a lot of passing references to framerate issues with Unreal Engine 3, but never really dug that deeply into it.  Dunno about this specific issue (i.e. difficulty scaling with framerate)

[Bariudol]

Air Quotes wrote...

Bariudol wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

This is hilarious. And for a game of 2012 it's 5x more hilarious. Does anyone know if Gears Of War has the same problem? Or any other Unreal engine MP games? 

Its not about the Engine, its about console porting, its easier and cheaper to consoles to calculate things based on frames (1 second / 30 frames), than making it on Deltatime steps (time from last frame), while delta time is way more precise the universal 30fps limitation on consoles makes it easier to program and cheaper to compute, the game is by design ment to be played at 30fps (even if i play it at 60fps).

 

I understand that. But the A.I. shouldn't be tied to FPS and if you do that make sure it scales with FPS. 

Totally agree with you, but wi will never know what pulled them through that alley. The thing is, i don't think that can just be patched, since its in the core of the game, it would be a herculean task just to tackle that bug. This won't be fixed and if it is, it will be with a patch that limits fps to 30. Maybe I'm wrong, of course, and I really hope so.

[SiIencE]

As long as BW or whoever doesn't fix the fps/ai bug i'll enforce what ever fps limit i want to. Just try it it's ridiculous, 60+ fps and silver feels like gold, enforce 30 fps and gold feels like silver. Normally i play around 100-120 fps... However this causes problems for others and makes it unplayable for me also.

And a fun fact, Xbox360/PS3/WiiU all run 20-30fps, and they wonder why it's 'easy'?

I tried it myself and playing at 30fps is just more fun cause you live longer and the 'AI' doesn't hit you 100% of the time.

[JGDD]

Caratinoid wrote...

[...] Can be patched in memory, though not sure what bioware's policy on things like that is.

Has worked for them for three games in the series now. Why change a thing. >_>