55 réponses à ce sujet

[EternalSeekerX9]

Wolf610 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Nova is pitiful and really needs a buff given the risk involved with using it. There are powers that are far less risky to use that deal far more damage and have a lot more utility...

But any buff to Nova will probably be met by the rage of over 9000 Bronze noobs and we'll have a constant stream of threads whining about vanguards just like the demo days.

I remember those days...

I agree, but due to the power bonuses the Manguard can get with gear, as well as the pierce evo, it has to be done carefully. The 1000+ the OP is asking for would definitely break him, but his current 350 base is laughable. Especially considering Nova's damage output is completely dependent on how much barrier you have when you launch it. One bullet clips you on a higher difficulty and your Nova tickles. I say 400-500, I prefer 500.

Yeah I am fine with 500 damage to, i did state in the OP that having 1000 plus damage maybe opm but something in the range of 300-900 should be fine 

[Cyonan]

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

Yeah making nova's base damage equivalent to smash would be a huge improvement, but how is a base damage of 900 OP? Ballistic blades do the same amount? And whats wrong with hitting as hard as smash, nova sounds cooler? ahaha

It would make it OP because it doesn't have any of the drawbacks of Smash like a very slow animation that leaves you exposed with no damage reduction.

It also hits more targets than either Smash or Ballistic Blades(which doesn't do all of the damage up front)

On top of that it's also currently the best biotic detonator in the game.

[EternalSeekerX9]

Cyonan wrote...

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

Yeah making nova's base damage equivalent to smash would be a huge improvement, but how is a base damage of 900 OP? Ballistic blades do the same amount? And whats wrong with hitting as hard as smash, nova sounds cooler? ahaha

It would make it OP because it doesn't have any of the drawbacks of Smash like a very slow animation that leaves you exposed with no damage reduction.

It also hits more targets than either Smash or Ballistic Blades(which doesn't do all of the damage up front)

On top of that it's also currently the best biotic detonator in the game.

Haven't unlocked the batarian to fully test the BB, but from what I hear, if your point blank, it should deal the whole amount of damage? And shockwave is the best biotic detonator in the game, nova isn't. As well, the game file states that Nova can hit a max of 3 targets, smash hits 3 as well. Ballistic blades can hit multiple targets if aimed properly. 

Modifié par EternalSeekerX9, 17 février 2013 - 10:03 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Cyonan wrote...

It would make it OP because it doesn't have any of the drawbacks of Smash like a very slow animation that leaves you exposed with no damage reduction.

It also hits more targets than either Smash or Ballistic Blades(which doesn't do all of the damage up front)

On top of that it's also currently the best biotic detonator in the game.

Smash is UP. If you use it as a standard for balance, you need to nerf a lot of things.

The best Biotic detonator in the game is Throw.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 17 février 2013 - 10:04 .

[Black Phantom]

its annoying weapons class can out damage a power class

Powers in this game are considerably easier to use than weapons in general. Powers also don't have to be unlocked via RNG, the only requirement is investing skill points.

But compared to other RPGs the distinction between a "weapon class" and a "power class" is almost non existant. If you're not using both, you're either gimping yourself or are new to the game without many unlocks.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 17 février 2013 - 10:10 .

[Hyperglide]

The only thing they need to do with Nova is add it to more kits. It's to awesome to be on just one kit.

[Black Phantom]

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

shockwave is the best biotic detonator in the game, nova isn't.

Shockwave radius evo is bugged on PC, so that's really only true for Xbox/Ps3

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

As well, the game file states that Nova can hit a max of 3 targets, smash hits 3 as well.

Smash only hits 2 targets unless you choose Radius evo 6

[Cyonan]

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

Haven't unlocked the batarian to fully test the BB, but from what I hear, if your point blank, it should deal the whole amount of damage? And shockwave is the best biotic detonator in the game, nova isn't. As well, the game file states that Nova can hit a max of 3 targets, smash hits 3 as well. Ballistic blades can hit multiple targets if aimed properly. 

It deals the whole amount of damage, but not up front. Some of the damage is dealt over time, with an evolution to cut the damage off after 4 seconds and cause an explosion if you want.

Smash hits 2 targets unless you take Impact Radius, which means that Nova with Pierce now deals a lot more damage since you don't have the massive modifier from Armour Damage.

Nova is the best since it can be fired very rapidly due to it not being on the GCD, which means your Charge is off cooldown by the time you run out of barriers and acts as another detonator.

Shockwave has the best modifier of detonators, but I'll be able to cast 3 things(2x Half Blast Novas + Biotic Charge) in the time that you can cast 1 Shockwave. In order to keep up with a Novaguard, the Shockwave user needs to get pretty lucky on having Shockwave detonate multiple BEs per cast.

Modifié par Cyonan, 17 février 2013 - 10:15 .

[MP-Ryan]

Nova doesn't need a base damage or straight-damage buff. What it does need is a multiplier. Giving it a 1.5X versus armour or buffing the crap out of the armour multiplier added by Pierce would actually give the character something to help deal with the ever-evolving bosses. And let's remember folks - Nova hasn't seen a buff. Brutes, Atlases, and Primes have all seen significant functional buffs in the meantime, and we've seen the addition of Dragoons and Bombers (more armoured units). Collectors are a novaguard nightmare due to rapid-firing base troops that spawn like crazy, complete shutdown of charge and novas i-frames from seeker swarms, stunlock-inducing Scions (that also have grenades AND a sync-kill), and Praetorians that can only be charged under exceptionally rare circumstances.

I don't think a tweak to Pierce to give it 150% vs armour and 75% versus shields/barriers would be patently unreasonable.

Novaguard shines in teamplay when hosting, but I admire the hell out of Achire and RedjohN for soloing Gold/platinum with it, because killing bosses by yourself is frickin tedious due to Nova's pathetic damage output without biotic/tech priming to detonate.

[Pedro Costa]

As a full-blaster, the only thing I currently feel Nova desperately needs is a boost against armoured targets. The Atlas has been buffed several times since release, the brute has also been buffed and there are more enemies with armor in the current metagame while Nova has stayed exactly the same.

Also, even if there were to be a slight overall damage buff to Nova, it still wouldn't make the kit playable off-host reliable, immune to staggers or to sync-kills, nor make it as absurd as the TGI/GI.
And just something I'd like to throw into the discussion as well:
Half-blast and full-blast Nova are two completely different beasts and shouldn't be lumped together when talking about buffing/nerfing the power.
Full-blast, while an excellent detonator, is catered to immediate power damage/area stagger, half-blast focuses more on detonation and survivability; unfortunately, Nova's Power Recharge evolution isn't enough to make that distinction "worth it" in the eyes of most. In fact, it is extremely risky in Platinum, and most likely THE build you least want to take into a platinum lobby.

[MP-Ryan]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

As a full-blaster, the only thing I currently feel Nova desperately needs is a boost against armoured targets. The Atlas has been buffed several times since release, the brute has also been buffed and there are more enemies with armor in the current metagame while Nova has stayed exactly the same.

Also, even if there were to be a slight overall damage buff to Nova, it still wouldn't make the kit playable off-host reliable, immune to staggers or to sync-kills, nor make it as absurd as the TGI/GI.
And just something I'd like to throw into the discussion as well:
Half-blast and full-blast Nova are two completely different beasts and shouldn't be lumped together when talking about buffing/nerfing the power.
Full-blast, while an excellent detonator, is catered to immediate power damage/area stagger, half-blast focuses more on detonation and survivability; unfortunately, Nova's Power Recharge evolution isn't enough to make that distinction "worth it" in the eyes of most. In fact, it is extremely risky in Platinum, and most likely THE build you least want to take into a platinum lobby.

Full-blast is hellishly risky against Gold Cerberus these days too.  The last time I tried it I immediately re-specced for an alternate half-blast build - bwteen Atlas ultra-homing-even-through-charge-and-then-DoT! rocket spam and Phantoms with their cross-map ridiculous sniping accuracy, full-blast was not worth it.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Most detonator powers are not too big on direct damage dealing, and nova detonates everything.

[Pedro Costa]

MP-Ryan wrote...
Full-blast is hellishly risky against Gold Cerberus these days too.  The last time I tried it I immediately re-specced for an alternate half-blast build - bwteen Atlas ultra-homing-even-through-charge-and-then-DoT! rocket spam and Phantoms with their cross-map ridiculous sniping accuracy, full-blast was not worth it.

Haha, can you believe the faction I'm the most effective against with my full-blast is Cerberus? =P
In fact, my single Gold solo was full-blast with a Wratih III vs Cerberus on Glacier.
But I do know what you mean, being a manguard isn't easy. And that's why I get annoyed when people start talking about how Nova is perfectly fine/i-frames easy mode - it's like no one actually tried full-blast.

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Most detonator powers are not too big on direct damage dealing, and nova detonates everything.

Most detonators don't demand you to be 5 meters away from your enemy nor sacrificing your defenses either.

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 17 février 2013 - 10:40 .

[EternalSeekerX9]

MP-Ryan wrote...

Nova doesn't need a base damage or straight-damage buff. What it does need is a multiplier. Giving it a 1.5X versus armour or buffing the crap out of the armour multiplier added by Pierce would actually give the character something to help deal with the ever-evolving bosses. And let's remember folks - Nova hasn't seen a buff. Brutes, Atlases, and Primes have all seen significant functional buffs in the meantime, and we've seen the addition of Dragoons and Bombers (more armoured units). Collectors are a novaguard nightmare due to rapid-firing base troops that spawn like crazy, complete shutdown of charge and novas i-frames from seeker swarms, stunlock-inducing Scions (that also have grenades AND a sync-kill), and Praetorians that can only be charged under exceptionally rare circumstances.

I don't think a tweak to Pierce to give it 150% vs armour and 75% versus shields/barriers would be patently unreasonable.

Novaguard shines in teamplay when hosting, but I admire the hell out of Achire and RedjohN for soloing Gold/platinum with it, because killing bosses by yourself is frickin tedious due to Nova's pathetic damage output without biotic/tech priming to detonate.

A buff in damage by pass would freaking help out alot, make pierce to maybe as you said 150 or even 200% damage against armor, barrier and shields would help and u won't get the problems with being op anymore. Base damage stays teh same. I'd like for nova to actually feel powerful, whipping enemies with whips don't seem powerful to me xD. 

[Pedro Costa]

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...
A buff in damage by pass would freaking help out alot, make pierce to maybe as you said 150 or even 200% damage against armor, barrier and shields would help and u won't get the problems with being op anymore. Base damage stays teh same. I'd like for nova to actually feel powerful, whipping enemies with whips don't seem powerful to me xD.

Like I said above, full-Nova does need a buff, but, if we're taking half-blast into account as well, then the buff should stick only to a 50% buff vs armour.
And do you know how OP a 200% buff vs all resistance would be in competent hands? Heck, average hands like my own even?! I'd absolutely wreck everything in my path. That'd make my favourite kit into the one I'd hate the most. Everything would be easy-mode. No challenge, no awareness, barely any thinking, ugh. No. No no no no no no no. No.

What I feel you are lacking, by your recommendations, is experience with the character, at least, you're making observations/suggestions similar to the ones I had back when I started using the novaguard in MP.

Edit: That and a Talon V/Wraith III/Piranha X.

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 17 février 2013 - 10:59 .

[EternalSeekerX9]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...
A buff in damage by pass would freaking help out alot, make pierce to maybe as you said 150 or even 200% damage against armor, barrier and shields would help and u won't get the problems with being op anymore. Base damage stays teh same. I'd like for nova to actually feel powerful, whipping enemies with whips don't seem powerful to me xD.

Like I said above, full-Nova does need a buff, but, if we're taking half-blast into account as well, then the buff should stick only to a 50% buff vs armour.
And do you know how OP a 200% buff vs all resistance would be in competent hands? Heck, average hands like my own even?! I'd absolutely wreck everything in my path. That'd make my favourite kit into the one I'd hate the most. Everything would be easy-mode. No challenge, no awareness, barely any thinking, ugh. No. No no no no no no no. No.

What I feel you are lacking, by your recommendations, is experience with the character, at least, you're making observations/suggestions similar to the ones I had back when I started using the novaguard in MP.

Edit: That and a Talon V/Wraith III/Piranha X.

Hmm, true, its just that nova seemed weak, I have no problem with survivabilty, can do some good damage by myself, most of my kills are due to my team-mates set-up though. It be nice with a little buff. I just feel like they need more damage heavy flashy skills. I'd be content with that. 

[Zkyire]

Cyonan wrote...

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

You can do a full nova ever 1.5 seconds? In theory it would obviously out damage a grenade due to pierce evo giving you full damage on all protection, but in the actual game, you might do less, I think its fair due to the fact that either nova takes all your shields or half of it, grenades don't take a shield and is spamable, the only other power comparable is PD, but it doesn't drain as much shields and i believe can out damage nova.

Half Blast can do 2 in a row, and that 40% damage loss is only of base damage. Full Blast can rotate between Nova and Charge, so roughly once every 3 seconds. Grenades are spammable to the point where you run out of grenades. You don't ever run out of Nova.

PD doesn't reliably hit multiple targets like Nova does and doesn't detonate biotic effects.

Shep has a lot of modifiers, but the Novaguard can get a total of +100% power damage from passives/equipment these days.

Against shields and armour, Nova would hit as hard as an Ex-Cerberus Vanguard's Smash does with full equipment and even harder against barriers.

Why should Nova be anywhere close to the considerably higher risk Smash that has a slow animation and no immunity frames or even DR?

Your Nova must be different from my Nova because on Gold, mine barely takes a bar of armour.

[Cyonan]

Zkyire wrote...

Your Nova must be different from my Nova because on Gold, mine barely takes a bar of armour.

I also said it would hit as hard as Smash if they used the OP's numbers, not that it currently does so =P

[Zkyire]

Cyonan wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Your Nova must be different from my Nova because on Gold, mine barely takes a bar of armour.

I also said it would hit as hard as Smash if they used the OP's numbers, not that it currently does so =P

Ohhh nevermind then, misread your post.

[EternalSeekerX9]

Great No more weekly balances, I kinda wanted more oomph from nova. Hopefully if it returns for ME4 multiplayer, they actually make it do something without exploiting nova cancelling and stuff. Maybe they could even make nova scale with difficulty xD. I want the power of dark energy to destroy the enemies O.o

[Ryumanjisen]

Wait...do you want to buff Nova?

Are we crazy or what? It's probably one of the best powers out there.

[EternalSeekerX9]

Ryumanjisen wrote...

Wait...do you want to buff Nova?

Are we crazy or what? It's probably one of the best powers out there.

Its the best? wait what? 

tell me how my biotic charge hits harder then my full blast nova? HUH?

Modifié par EternalSeekerX9, 30 mars 2013 - 08:39 .

[Cyonan]

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

Ryumanjisen wrote...

Wait...do you want to buff Nova?

Are we crazy or what? It's probably one of the best powers out there.

Its the best? wait what? 

tell me how my biotic charge hits harder then my full blast nova? HUH?

Full blast Nova can do 2380 damage to shields/armour and 3570 to barriers with full consumables/gear/etc.

Your Biotic Charge does not hit that hard.

Nova also is an amazing ability largely thanks to it being one of the best detonators in the game, on top of providing you with full damage immunity.

[RxP4IN]

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

Ryumanjisen wrote...

Wait...do you want to buff Nova?

Are we crazy or what? It's probably one of the best powers out there.

Its the best? wait what? 

tell me how my biotic charge hits harder then my full blast nova? HUH?

lol, biotic charge

So in 1 month you still haven't learned how to make it useful...

[MP-Ryan]

Nova has not kept up with the power creep, but it's still a fantastic power.I would've liked to see some tweaking done, but it's not the end of the world.