Yes, it did. Rebooting the series in 2018 is the only viable solution.
Did the ending ruin the chances of Mass Effect becoming a giant, long lasting franchise?
Débuté par
Mathias
, févr. 17 2013 10:22
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#227
Guest_LineHolder_*
Posté 19 février 2013 - 04:42
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The Mad Hanar wrote...
I understand what you are saying, and I was using that logic when I used the numbers from the poll. I figure the at least a good percentage of the die hard fans that would feel burned would come to this or other forums and take part in the polls. That was the biggest one I found, and you were right. About 91% of the people who took that poll did say they disliked the ending and their dislike of the ending was strong enough to take place in that poll. I feel that this is a good measure of how the die hard fans felt at the time. An overwhelming majority of die hard fans were at least dissapointed with the ending and consequenlty the game. The thing is though, the amount of die hard fans is extremely small when compared to the total amount of people who buy the game.
It's really the die hard fans that will feel personally burned or even hurt by the direction of the series. Their the ones who won't buy the next game if they are dissapointed by it. More casual fans of the series, such as myself, will generally give the next game a chance as long as the previous installment had something that held interest and if the reviews (both professional and word-of-mouth) are good. That's mainly why I feel that the series won't encounter that much difficulty moving into the next game. I could be wrong and ME4's sales could end up being half of ME3s, like DA2's was half of DAOs. It doesn't seem as likely though, since the markets of the two games are really different if you think about it.
Also it's difficult, at least for me, to find DLC sales.
DMC. Ninja Theory. Capcom.
But hey, any publicity is good publicity, right?
#228
Posté 19 février 2013 - 05:20
AndreShepard2178
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Where do you think Normandy went to after they made repairs?
#229
Posté 19 février 2013 - 05:26
Yate
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no it didn't
it just weeded out the whiny, possessive part of the fanbase
good riddance I say
anyway, there were always going to be hipsters who declared ME3 sucked and BG2 was the best game ever and bioware hasn't done anything right since whatever and yada yada yada.
but you get those losers with every new rpg so *shrug*
it just weeded out the whiny, possessive part of the fanbase
good riddance I say
anyway, there were always going to be hipsters who declared ME3 sucked and BG2 was the best game ever and bioware hasn't done anything right since whatever and yada yada yada.
but you get those losers with every new rpg so *shrug*
#230
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Posté 19 février 2013 - 05:34
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Yate wrote...
no it didn't
it just weeded out the whiny, possessive part of the fanbase
good riddance I say
anyway, there were always going to be hipsters who declared ME3 sucked and BG2 was the best game ever and bioware hasn't done anything right since whatever and yada yada yada.
but you get those losers with every new rpg so *shrug*
Auld Wulf, is that you?
#231
Posté 19 février 2013 - 05:36
Reofeir
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Honestly, I didn't expect this to even continue. I expected it to be a good trilogy, which I got, though I don't fully agree with another Mass Effect. Dragon Age I can understand as a continuing franchise but Mass Effect seemed to be made as a trilogy. They put themselves in a hole (not just be because of one's opinion of the ending but the drastic changes each choice brings) due to such an ending but I don't know if it really did ruin the franchise. It can easily continue, from my view point.
#232
Posté 19 février 2013 - 05:43
Mathias
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LineHolder wrote...
The Mad Hanar wrote...
I understand what you are saying, and I was using that logic when I used the numbers from the poll. I figure the at least a good percentage of the die hard fans that would feel burned would come to this or other forums and take part in the polls. That was the biggest one I found, and you were right. About 91% of the people who took that poll did say they disliked the ending and their dislike of the ending was strong enough to take place in that poll. I feel that this is a good measure of how the die hard fans felt at the time. An overwhelming majority of die hard fans were at least dissapointed with the ending and consequenlty the game. The thing is though, the amount of die hard fans is extremely small when compared to the total amount of people who buy the game.
It's really the die hard fans that will feel personally burned or even hurt by the direction of the series. Their the ones who won't buy the next game if they are dissapointed by it. More casual fans of the series, such as myself, will generally give the next game a chance as long as the previous installment had something that held interest and if the reviews (both professional and word-of-mouth) are good. That's mainly why I feel that the series won't encounter that much difficulty moving into the next game. I could be wrong and ME4's sales could end up being half of ME3s, like DA2's was half of DAOs. It doesn't seem as likely though, since the markets of the two games are really different if you think about it.
Also it's difficult, at least for me, to find DLC sales.
DMC. Ninja Theory. Capcom.
But hey, any publicity is good publicity, right?
Another example would be Dead Space 3. The target audience for this franchise was the survival horror fans. But then what happened? EA decided to casualize DS3 and turn it more into an action shooter. And guess what? Dead Space 3 sold 27% less in the UK, than Dead Space 2 did. That's not really a good sign for when the full report for the global sales releases. Remember, EA wants to see big big numbers.
So all these people talking about how core fanbases aren't important for franchise, have no idea what they're talking about. DMC is a beautiful example with this. And if times get tough for a company, you think it's gonna be the casual players who are gonna stick around to try and suppor the company? Hell no, they'll be off playing the next thing.
#233
Guest_LineHolder_*
Posté 19 février 2013 - 05:53
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Mdoggy1214 wrote...
LineHolder wrote...
The Mad Hanar wrote...
I understand what you are saying, and I was using that logic when I used the numbers from the poll. I figure the at least a good percentage of the die hard fans that would feel burned would come to this or other forums and take part in the polls. That was the biggest one I found, and you were right. About 91% of the people who took that poll did say they disliked the ending and their dislike of the ending was strong enough to take place in that poll. I feel that this is a good measure of how the die hard fans felt at the time. An overwhelming majority of die hard fans were at least dissapointed with the ending and consequenlty the game. The thing is though, the amount of die hard fans is extremely small when compared to the total amount of people who buy the game.
It's really the die hard fans that will feel personally burned or even hurt by the direction of the series. Their the ones who won't buy the next game if they are dissapointed by it. More casual fans of the series, such as myself, will generally give the next game a chance as long as the previous installment had something that held interest and if the reviews (both professional and word-of-mouth) are good. That's mainly why I feel that the series won't encounter that much difficulty moving into the next game. I could be wrong and ME4's sales could end up being half of ME3s, like DA2's was half of DAOs. It doesn't seem as likely though, since the markets of the two games are really different if you think about it.
Also it's difficult, at least for me, to find DLC sales.
DMC. Ninja Theory. Capcom.
But hey, any publicity is good publicity, right?
Another example would be Dead Space 3. The target audience for this franchise was the survival horror fans. But then what happened? EA decided to casualize DS3 and turn it more into an action shooter. And guess what? Dead Space 3 sold 27% less in the UK, than Dead Space 2 did. That's not really a good sign for when the full report for the global sales releases. Remember, EA wants to see big big numbers.
So all these people talking about how core fanbases aren't important for franchise, have no idea what they're talking about. DMC is a beautiful example with this. And if times get tough for a company, you think it's gonna be the casual players who are gonna stick around to try and suppor the company? Hell no, they'll be off playing the next thing.
Agreed.
Gambling on probability instead of loyalty? Hmmm...
#234
Posté 19 février 2013 - 08:57
Auld Wulf
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Apparently they didn't like their target demographic and wanted to change it. There's nothing wrong with that.
#235
Posté 19 février 2013 - 09:01
Dr_Extrem
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Auld Wulf wrote...
Apparently they didn't like their target demographic and wanted to change it. There's nothing wrong with that.
yeah .. tailoring the game to a younger audience did not really work out that well.
#236
Posté 19 février 2013 - 09:06
Grubas
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Demystifying the Reapers and turning the narrative into another Skynet/Terminator interpretation really is what made Mass Effect into yet another forgetable Si-Fi product. They had a great narrative, ,,,, why did they had to play save instead?
#237
Posté 19 février 2013 - 09:29
Namz89
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I think the ME series, the original appeal died with the starchild. The child, the story it was supposed to represent and the logic behind it was so twisted, forced and unnatural, I couldn't feel anything but dumbstruck and a little betrayed.
Where the first two games let us fight against a threat with seemingly no chance to win - but still in the end it was possible to win - despite all odds.
ME3 - especially the ending betrayed the tune the of the whole series and rewarded the player with some - at best - mediocre endings ignoring all of our choices.
If that wouldn't be enough - the questionable handling of the community, the statements made before the release, that were not kept, the refusal to add the basic things, many players wanted most - like adding alternate endings - except for the slap-in-the-face-refusal ending.
That is another illogical thing BW did. They said, no changes to the endings will be made, no endings will be added, yet they obviously added one ending. Sure, we wanted that, but we wanted it among other possibilities. We wanted it in contrast to the ending where we could beat the reapers without sacrificing people and friends.
*sigh* Alright, I'm done I think. My final thought here is, the franchise isn't dead, not yet. But it is seriously weakened and the numbers on preorders of ME4 will show greatly how the things mentioned above affected loyal fans and buyers. With Shepard gone too people could feel "alienated" with any new character and NPCs they put in. By refusing to put in a little more cash to make players happy, they probably crippled the opportunity to get more money in return from certain players for any merchandize and upcoming games.
I for my part won't be preordering anything from BW and EA, or other companies again - not because I hate them, but because I am not that wealthy that I am able to spend 50...60...70€ on a game without regretting it greatly if I don't enjoy it.
edit: Oh, and despite EA/BW claiming that people who spoke out against ME3 and it's endings were a small minority, we shall see how small this group of people really was/is. I personally only know people who weren't satisfied and certainly won't preorder any game from BW/EA again...and it's questionable if they will even buy the next game at all.
Where the first two games let us fight against a threat with seemingly no chance to win - but still in the end it was possible to win - despite all odds.
ME3 - especially the ending betrayed the tune the of the whole series and rewarded the player with some - at best - mediocre endings ignoring all of our choices.
If that wouldn't be enough - the questionable handling of the community, the statements made before the release, that were not kept, the refusal to add the basic things, many players wanted most - like adding alternate endings - except for the slap-in-the-face-refusal ending.
That is another illogical thing BW did. They said, no changes to the endings will be made, no endings will be added, yet they obviously added one ending. Sure, we wanted that, but we wanted it among other possibilities. We wanted it in contrast to the ending where we could beat the reapers without sacrificing people and friends.
*sigh* Alright, I'm done I think. My final thought here is, the franchise isn't dead, not yet. But it is seriously weakened and the numbers on preorders of ME4 will show greatly how the things mentioned above affected loyal fans and buyers. With Shepard gone too people could feel "alienated" with any new character and NPCs they put in. By refusing to put in a little more cash to make players happy, they probably crippled the opportunity to get more money in return from certain players for any merchandize and upcoming games.
I for my part won't be preordering anything from BW and EA, or other companies again - not because I hate them, but because I am not that wealthy that I am able to spend 50...60...70€ on a game without regretting it greatly if I don't enjoy it.
edit: Oh, and despite EA/BW claiming that people who spoke out against ME3 and it's endings were a small minority, we shall see how small this group of people really was/is. I personally only know people who weren't satisfied and certainly won't preorder any game from BW/EA again...and it's questionable if they will even buy the next game at all.
Modifié par Namz89, 19 février 2013 - 09:52 .
#238
Posté 19 février 2013 - 10:17
ChurchOfZod
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YES. Bioware is its own worst enemy when it comes to the ME franchise.
#239
Posté 19 février 2013 - 11:52
Peranor
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Yate wrote...
no it didn't
it just weeded out the whiny, possessive part of the fanbase
good riddance I say
anyway, there were always going to be hipsters who declared ME3 sucked and BG2 was the best game ever and bioware hasn't done anything right since whatever and yada yada yada.
but you get those losers with every new rpg so *shrug*
The only hipsters here is the people who claims that the endings was deep and philosophical
#240
Posté 19 février 2013 - 12:11
Daniel_N7
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Did ME3 ruin the chances of Mass Effect becoming a long lasting series? No. But I agree with the OP that it split the fanbase in two.
Also, the whole attitude of BioWare troubles me. I understand that the MEU is wide and can exist without Shepard. But it seems as if BioWare lost all its love for Shepard for some reason - saying things like [quoting from memory] "we are done with Shepard", "no more Shepard", etc...
Shepard is a great character. He's ME's Captain Kirk. I don't see why BioWare needs to be this categorical about the future of this character. And it gets worse when you see the "state of the Galaxy" as it hangs in ME3, with such a split future that compromises the way things could ever move forward in a cohesive manner.
So that for me is the question that needs to be made to BioWare: Do you (BW) still love the Mass Effect Universe, is it still a source of passion and inspiration, or has it become a mere franchise to be explored for business reasons? I'm not in EA's hate bandwagon but is this a sign that BioWare is sort-of being crushed by EA's bear-hug?
Also, the whole attitude of BioWare troubles me. I understand that the MEU is wide and can exist without Shepard. But it seems as if BioWare lost all its love for Shepard for some reason - saying things like [quoting from memory] "we are done with Shepard", "no more Shepard", etc...
Shepard is a great character. He's ME's Captain Kirk. I don't see why BioWare needs to be this categorical about the future of this character. And it gets worse when you see the "state of the Galaxy" as it hangs in ME3, with such a split future that compromises the way things could ever move forward in a cohesive manner.
So that for me is the question that needs to be made to BioWare: Do you (BW) still love the Mass Effect Universe, is it still a source of passion and inspiration, or has it become a mere franchise to be explored for business reasons? I'm not in EA's hate bandwagon but is this a sign that BioWare is sort-of being crushed by EA's bear-hug?
#241
Posté 19 février 2013 - 12:14
Karlone123
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ME2 will be a long lasting game to remember, but not ME3. I still get bitter about it.
#242
Posté 19 février 2013 - 12:46
Atekimagus
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Daniel_N7 wrote...
Also, the whole attitude of BioWare troubles me. I understand that the MEU is wide and can exist without Shepard. But it seems as if BioWare lost all its love for Shepard for some reason - saying things like [quoting from memory] "we are done with Shepard", "no more Shepard", etc...
Shepard is a great character. He's ME's Captain Kirk. I don't see why BioWare needs to be this categorical about the future of this character. And it gets worse when you see the "state of the Galaxy" as it hangs in ME3, with such a split future that compromises the way things could ever move forward in a cohesive manner.
Well said. Could be ego? Meaning that someone who did NOT invent Shepard had to work with the character and didn't like it. Seems stupid, but what other reason is there to burn such an iconic character?
Heck, if they play it save they could easily have made a ME4+5+6 with minimal effort selling like warm cake, since coming back to familiar and beloved characters is one of the biggest motiviations there is.
I really do not understand why they were so hellbent on crashing and burning the franchise. Fine, if the creative heads want to do something else, bring in fresh blood, I am sure there are tons of developers who would have loved creating the next Shepard-arc.
Also, you don't see Nintendo killing off Mario that's because they know it's bad business.
#243
Posté 19 février 2013 - 01:49
AllThatJazz
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Daniel_N7 wrote...
Did ME3 ruin the chances of Mass Effect becoming a long lasting series? No. But I agree with the OP that it split the fanbase in two.
Also, the whole attitude of BioWare troubles me. I understand that the MEU is wide and can exist without Shepard. But it seems as if BioWare lost all its love for Shepard for some reason - saying things like [quoting from memory] "we are done with Shepard", "no more Shepard", etc...
Shepard is a great character. He's ME's Captain Kirk. I don't see why BioWare needs to be this categorical about the future of this character. And it gets worse when you see the "state of the Galaxy" as it hangs in ME3, with such a split future that compromises the way things could ever move forward in a cohesive manner.
So that for me is the question that needs to be made to BioWare: Do you (BW) still love the Mass Effect Universe, is it still a source of passion and inspiration, or has it become a mere franchise to be explored for business reasons? I'm not in EA's hate bandwagon but is this a sign that BioWare is sort-of being crushed by EA's bear-hug?
Thing is though, to use your own example, Star Trek managed perfectly well without Captain Kirk. Picard was great, Sisko too. I also liked Janeway. I even didn't hate Archer
And then when the franchise finally seemed to have run its course with Enterprise, they did a reboot. I'm looking forward to the next film. I imagine there were a fair few ST fans back when TNG was announced, who were unhappy that Kirk wouldn't be in command again - but it worked out much better than shoehorning in a character who wouldn't have been right for the new stories. Personally, I really don't want to spend the next x many years playing the same protag over and over and over again, I would much prefer self-contained stories (whether single games or trilogies or whatever) involving different characters.
Nah, I don't think the franchise is dead by any means, and nor has a sucky ending prevented its continuation. It doesn't have the stature of ST or SW, but that's no reason for it not to go on in some form. It's always possible to work around thorny issues such as the ending of ME3. And the core is still there - a relatively rich and detailed universe with some interesting races, lore and plenty of unexplored bits of the galaxy. And of course, as long as it remains even slightly profitable, that's the biggest plus for the publisher.
Whether or not I hand over my cash will depend very much on the direction they go in - if they head for pure TPS or FPS or app-type games or strategy games (which I guess is a possibility, given the Mass Effect Risk boardgame), then I'll probably give it a miss since those aren't my kind of thing. Same if they go too sandboxy - if they lose the narrative focus, I'll lose interest. But I guess companiesget new fans and shed fans all the time, that's the way it goes.
Modifié par AllThatJazz, 19 février 2013 - 01:51 .
#244
Posté 19 février 2013 - 02:17
spirosz
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Auld Wulf wrote...
Apparently they didn't like their target demographic and wanted to change it. There's nothing wrong with that.
EA didn't like it, lol. Difference.
#245
Posté 19 février 2013 - 02:18
ElSuperGecko
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.........nope.
It did however assure that the game series will reach legendary status and stand the test of time.
It did however assure that the game series will reach legendary status and stand the test of time.
#246
Posté 19 février 2013 - 03:08
TheChris92
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I concur with the bolded textLineHolder wrote...
Mdoggy1214 wrote...
Another example would be Dead Space 3. The target audience for this franchise was the survival horror fans. But then what happened? EA decided to casualize DS3 and turn it more into an action shooter. And guess what? Dead Space 3 sold 27% less in the UK, than Dead Space 2 did. That's not really a good sign for when the full report for the global sales releases. Remember, EA wants to see big big numbers.
So all these people talking about how core fanbases aren't important for franchise, have no idea what they're talking about. DMC is a beautiful example with this. And if times get tough for a company, you think it's gonna be the casual players who are gonna stick around to try and suppor the company? Hell no, they'll be off playing the next thing.
Agreed.
Gambling on probability instead of loyalty? Hmmm...
#247
Posté 19 février 2013 - 09:37
RoNiN2X
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I don't think the series is done going forward. I have my own ideas for what they could do, but really, its fantasy. they COULD come up with any old thing to keep the plot going. I just hope they do decide to go forward and keep it interesting.
My biggest fear is that they go into the past (which to me would feel the same as DLC feels now. "What's the point?") or go full mp. I actually really enjoy the mp 3 has. A stand alone f2p game wouldn't be out of the question for me. But I want the crack team of knuckleheads at Bioware working on what comes after 3. I want to keep going forward. I don't need Shepard to do it.
My biggest fear is that they go into the past (which to me would feel the same as DLC feels now. "What's the point?") or go full mp. I actually really enjoy the mp 3 has. A stand alone f2p game wouldn't be out of the question for me. But I want the crack team of knuckleheads at Bioware working on what comes after 3. I want to keep going forward. I don't need Shepard to do it.
#248
Posté 19 février 2013 - 09:41
3DandBeyond
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TheChris92 wrote...
I concur with the bolded textLineHolder wrote...
Mdoggy1214 wrote...
Another example would be Dead Space 3. The target audience for this franchise was the survival horror fans. But then what happened? EA decided to casualize DS3 and turn it more into an action shooter. And guess what? Dead Space 3 sold 27% less in the UK, than Dead Space 2 did. That's not really a good sign for when the full report for the global sales releases. Remember, EA wants to see big big numbers.
So all these people talking about how core fanbases aren't important for franchise, have no idea what they're talking about. DMC is a beautiful example with this. And if times get tough for a company, you think it's gonna be the casual players who are gonna stick around to try and suppor the company? Hell no, they'll be off playing the next thing.
Agreed.
Gambling on probability instead of loyalty? Hmmm...
This is crucial and it's what a lot of companies just understand. You keep the fans you have and do your best to get new ones. You don't cater to the new ones and ignore the loyal ones. Loyal fans will remain true as long as you remain true to them.
Dead Space 3 and the Sims 3 are prime examples of the direction EA is taking all the games they own. ME was another example. Dead Space 3 in particular was something I was looking forward to since I loved DS and DS2. They ruined it. And even paid review sites are searching for positives to say about the game.
#249
Posté 19 février 2013 - 09:53
3DandBeyond
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Yate wrote...
no it didn't
it just weeded out the whiny, possessive part of the fanbase
good riddance I say
anyway, there were always going to be hipsters who declared ME3 sucked and BG2 was the best game ever and bioware hasn't done anything right since whatever and yada yada yada.
but you get those losers with every new rpg so *shrug*
Yes, it's always important to keep on finding large parts of your fanbase to ****** off so that you can make money off of the two people left who are happy to buy anything you slap the Mass Effect name on.
Whereas some game devs actually never got mad at fans that were mad at them, BW chose to make this personal. And they continually search for large groups of people to ignore. I worked as a mod on another dev's site for a game that had a huge controversy for a smaller game dev. People were livid. The devs never spoke out against the fans, no matter how nasty things got. And the devs actually did take suggestions from fans on how to fix things, what DLC to make, and they did all they could to be more inclusive. The dev even apologized. And though I did not have the issues with the game that many people did, I felt that the more people the game dev could make happy, the better the game could become, and the more likely it would be that there would be DLC or another game in the franchise. And DLC was released and another game is being developed.
BW's model of how to do things is going to bite them in the ass. You want people's money, then you don't see how many people you can get to dump the game. And you as a fan should be wanting more people to like the game, and not be overjoyed when people have legitimate gripes and the game dev just appears to be deaf. Hipsters, my eye. This is a game that featured reaper tag fetch quests, a super silly beginning, lapses in lore, a lack of understanding of the story that came before, the overuse of the term "fish in a barrel", and at the end, the devs decided to go pseudo-intellectual. The silliest thing of all is that some people seem to believe it's really philosophical and truly intellectual. While others think it's true to real life. I don't know which scares me the most.
