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Did the ending ruin the chances of Mass Effect becoming a giant, long lasting franchise?


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#51
Nykara

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Of course not. Most people on here will pre-order the next ME game after a few trailers and screen shots. They just don't want to admit it yet.


That is often true for a lot of games with people who say they aren't going to do that and then do. However with Mass Effect I have seen more people stick to what they have said they will do then those who have not. I know I have been guilty in the past of saying such things - and not sticking to it. However with Mass Effect so far I have done every thing I said I would. I have not purchased a single DLC and my partner has not either. I did quit playing SWTOR and have not gone back to playing it even though I was/am still interested in some of the class stories there. I did purchase DAO but only when it was a couple of $$ on steam. Other then that I haven't touched any bioware products since ME3. If the ME3 ending is not 'fixed' before the next game comes out I wont be pre-ordering it or even purchasing it before it is cheap in the stores some place. Why would I pay full price for what might be another triology that will probably get messed up in the end?

#52
spirosz

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Steelcan wrote...

spirosz wrote...

No. The next game will sell in hordes, it's obvious.

. What are you?


What I am doesn't matter. 

#53
AlanC9

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KevShep wrote...


BTW, in almost every series to any game/movie the fan made stuff is always better then the actuall writers because of the passion that the fans have is more creative then the writers who are not as passionate.


Really? I've seen an awful lot of bad fan Trek over the years.

#54
Steelcan

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First Nihlus now Spirosz... Seival is growing its horde

#55
davishepard

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KevShep wrote...

No, its bad when a writer abandonds the entire plot to start a new one with new plot devices and new plot directions that are not in context with the rest of the series and there by alienating the rest of the series.

BTW, in almost every series to any game/movie the fan made stuff is always better then the actuall writers because of the passion that the fans have is more creative then the writers who are not as passionate.

Shouldn't you tell the writers they abandoned the entire plot to start a new one with new plot devices and new plot directions that are not in context with the rest of the series and there by alienating the rest of the series?
I was pretty sure that the writers have brains, and use them, and also are aware of what they write. But since your personal view of their writing is a fact, they must have written what they did on purpose, or do you think that they are stupid and didn't realize the facts you mentioned?

Wrong. Every fanbase has its members that think they can do a better job that the ones actually doing their jobs. Because a fan care more about the series than Casey Hudson himself.
Yeah, right.

Modifié par davishepard, 17 février 2013 - 11:45 .


#56
Giga Drill BREAKER

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I wouldn't say dead but whenever anyone thinks about the first ME trilogy the first thought will be, God! ME3's ending sucked.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 17 février 2013 - 11:52 .


#57
humes spork

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God, I hope so. Franchises are one of the most damaging things to gaming and the medium altogether. There's nothing wrong with writing a self-contained story in a well-detailed universe, completing it, and moving onto other projects. The last thing the MEU needs is to be "Maddenized".

#58
Dr_Extrem

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Steelcan wrote...

First Nihlus now Spirosz... Seival is growing its horde


i hope its not contagious ...


do they like synthesis and control now and proclaim that reservations are cool?

#59
Neizd

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The game still has a lot of potential...but instead of one year of dissapointement we could have one year of awesome discussions, multiplayer matches and a lot of excitment while waiting for next DLC's...instead we had a lot of fighting on BSN.

#60
Teddie Sage

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For me, it started losing credibility after the beam hit Shepard and Leviathan DLC just adds more insults to the injuries. Both weren't required.

#61
S3Plan

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chemiclord wrote...

I don't think Mass Effect was going to be a giant, long lasting, unforgettable series no matter what. It was a fairly formulaic space opera with fairly general Lovecraft-lite type villains based off of themes and premises of sci-fi's past.

It simply wasn't THAT good, even from the start.


this guy here hits the nail on the head

#62
Redbelle

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spirosz wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

spirosz wrote...

No. The next game will sell in hordes, it's obvious.

. What are you?


What I am doesn't matter. 


If you are a sentient radish, exposed to agent C during a hose down that grew your intellect to criminal mastermind proportion's, you should declare yourself now....... otherwise people may speculate.

As for selling in hordes..... DA3 is projected to be out sometime come the end of the year when some specualte we'll see the new PS4 and XBOX. However, ME4 will, hopefully, miss that christmas selling period so the folks at BW can put in the time, care and attention to see that when it launches it is an actual finished game, not a beta that had to be fixed with a few liberal sprinkling of patches.

And while they are at it, giving all the writing team full scope and priviledge's to writing an ending together wouldn't hurt either.

#63
Iakus

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MassEffectFShep wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Yeah, I'd say the poor handling of ME3--especially the ending--kind of ruined the appeal of the franchise for me. It made me feel like nothing mattered anymore, that the soul of the IP had been thrown out the window for the sake of some last-minute need to make an out-of-place philosophical point.  I can't see Mass Effect regaining its former glory after that.


Agreed.

I think the elements that made the franchise worthwhile, and the elements which got many of us hooked on and interested in the games, will always be there. I will always remember Shepard's story, and all the amazing characters that were a part of it. The element of personalization and choice in ME1 and ME2 were well done, and those will always stand out as making Mass Effect unique and different from other franchises that could have reached a similar potential. But there will always be a "but the ending..." for me and many others, which will be the shadow following the franchise around. It could have been so much more than it ended up being, which sucks.

Basically, the ending doesn't take away the great parts/moments in the game, but it does take something away. Like an amazing song that builds to a powerful climax and then ends with a sforzando in the wrong key.


It also makes one concerned about the future.  Why should I get invested in a new character and a new story, when it could all end up like this again?  Do I want to be told again and again "You're choices matter, you are shaping this tale" only to be told at the very end "trolol, nope!"?

#64
CroGamer002

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iakus wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Yeah, I'd say the poor handling of ME3--especially the ending--kind of ruined the appeal of the franchise for me. It made me feel like nothing mattered anymore, that the soul of the IP had been thrown out the window for the sake of some last-minute need to make an out-of-place philosophical point.  I can't see Mass Effect regaining its former glory after that.


Agreed.

I think the elements that made the franchise worthwhile, and the elements which got many of us hooked on and interested in the games, will always be there. I will always remember Shepard's story, and all the amazing characters that were a part of it. The element of personalization and choice in ME1 and ME2 were well done, and those will always stand out as making Mass Effect unique and different from other franchises that could have reached a similar potential. But there will always be a "but the ending..." for me and many others, which will be the shadow following the franchise around. It could have been so much more than it ended up being, which sucks.

Basically, the ending doesn't take away the great parts/moments in the game, but it does take something away. Like an amazing song that builds to a powerful climax and then ends with a sforzando in the wrong key.


It also makes one concerned about the future.  Why should I get invested in a new character and a new story, when it could all end up like this again?  Do I want to be told again and again "You're choices matter, you are shaping this tale" only to be told at the very end "trolol, nope!"?


Pretty much all this.

I got nothing more to add.

#65
Dubozz

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Yeah, I'd say the poor handling of ME3--especially the ending--kind of ruined the appeal of the franchise for me. It made me feel like nothing mattered anymore, that the soul of the IP had been thrown out the window for the sake of some last-minute need to make an out-of-place philosophical point.  I can't see Mass Effect regaining its former glory after that.



#66
spirosz

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Steelcan wrote...

First Nihlus now Spirosz... Seival is growing its horde


Get it right, first me, then BBN.  

Perfect.

Modifié par spirosz, 18 février 2013 - 12:43 .


#67
fiendishchicken

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I think ME3, mixed with the 'new' attitude towards business that BW has adopted since joining EA has made things negative for Mass Effect.

It's not a missed opportunity, with 2 of the finest games of this generation, but it didn't hit the stride it should have since ME3 missed the target so miserably.

#68
Red Panda

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Great series so far based on sales.

#69
DC111

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Mesina2 wrote...

iakus wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Yeah, I'd say the poor handling of ME3--especially the ending--kind of ruined the appeal of the franchise for me. It made me feel like nothing mattered anymore, that the soul of the IP had been thrown out the window for the sake of some last-minute need to make an out-of-place philosophical point.  I can't see Mass Effect regaining its former glory after that.


Agreed.

I think the elements that made the franchise worthwhile, and the elements which got many of us hooked on and interested in the games, will always be there. I will always remember Shepard's story, and all the amazing characters that were a part of it. The element of personalization and choice in ME1 and ME2 were well done, and those will always stand out as making Mass Effect unique and different from other franchises that could have reached a similar potential. But there will always be a "but the ending..." for me and many others, which will be the shadow following the franchise around. It could have been so much more than it ended up being, which sucks.

Basically, the ending doesn't take away the great parts/moments in the game, but it does take something away. Like an amazing song that builds to a powerful climax and then ends with a sforzando in the wrong key.


It also makes one concerned about the future.  Why should I get invested in a new character and a new story, when it could all end up like this again?  Do I want to be told again and again "You're choices matter, you are shaping this tale" only to be told at the very end "trolol, nope!"?


Pretty much all this.

I got nothing more to add.


Following my first comment and this;

I also have nothting else to add..

#70
Dean_the_Young

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I'm not sure if the ME universe is doomed to not be a giant, long-lasting franchise, but if it is I don't think it's the ending of ME3 that doomed it. I think it was the use of the Reapers as the central conceit of the series.

The Mass Effect universe is big, sure, but big's easy to do in fiction. If anything, it's positively triveal. You can make a series set about the various stories of New York City a larger and and more diverse setting than ME has ever been written out as. More important than size of the setting, I suspect, is the underpining idea that drives it: what makes the setting of sci-fi Series A distinct from the setting of sci-fi Series B?

Some series go with the setting itself: Fallout is post-apocolypic retro-sci-fi America. Dragon Age is about the continent of Thedas in the, well, Dragon Age. Star Trek is about space as the Final Frontier, with a heavy emphasis on the nigh-infinite worlds and constant exploration into the unknown.

Mass Effect, though? Mass Effect rested on the threat of the Reapers as the unifying framing device. Once they were resolved, the series was always going to have to fall back on another unifying idea for what makes Mass Effect, well, Mass Effect... and I don't think the writers ever decided what that was. There was too much tone shifting and focus-jumping across the series.

ME1 was a rather ideological and political thriller: it might not warrant being called a political thriller, but the narrative of a rising nation-state and international political relations was central across the story: the relations between species was as important as the relations between characters, and the themes of the narrative were sharply kept in the Paragon/Renegade ideologies.

ME2 cast that aside for it's aimless romp in the Terminus. Cerberus became a glaring example of a species-centric ideology, but at the cost of eclipsing the diversity of the Alliance and lacking any real other-species contenders. The Terminus was, if anything, marginalized by the very game supposedly focusing on it, and the sole Terminus polity we were introduced to was never justified as to why we should consider it important. Relations between species were thrown aside to focus on the cast and their personal relations with Sheaprd, and the former ideologies of ME1 were thrown aside for a tone-based morality system that jumped positions frequently.

ME3 moved away from ME2 and back towards ME1 in a lot of ways, but only somewhat. Inter-species relations played a part for a little while, but it was mostly isolated in two specific subplots. Political tensions were replaced by the grand strategy of the war. And while the morality system did become less done-driven, it also still lacked the ideological component of ME1. 



So, really, when we get past the superficial differences in the aliens, what is it that distinguishes Mass Effect from other sci-fi? I don't think it's the Mass Effect: mass effect drives and relays, while setting-specific, are primarily just tools to justify the interaction between species: little more than hyperdrives and anti-gravity machines common across sci-fi.

To me, it's the Reapers: the looming apocolyptic threat. That's what unifies the franchise, and that's what every previous work more or less worked within. Once it was gone, and it was always going to be gone by the end of the trilogy, the ME universe was either going to have to find a way to bring back that common denominator (possibly by introducing a similar underlying apocolyptic force), find a new one, or try and do without a unique hook. It's the last one that I would think truly 'dooms' a franchise.



So, to go back to the start, no. I don't think the ending doomed the ME franchise. It could even well continue on a variety of paths: it could try to be a lot of ME2-style companion-based games. It could be a standard sci-fi space opera with political focuses. It could do something else.

But I think the biggest anchor around its neck from this time forward comes from the loss of the Reapers as the Big Bad. Not how they ended.

#71
JamesFaith

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No, why?

ME franchise =/= Shepard story.

There were many books from Star Wars universe after prequels.
There are dozens novels from now dead Star Trek series.

Then can easily write book series about Blue Suns without any connection to Shepard or Reapers, or create strategy game from First Contact war and it still will be ME franchise.

Connect end of whole franchise with end of ME3 is exaggeration.

#72
Cainhurst Crow

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As a whole? No.

On a personal level to me, no.

On a personal level to other people, yes.

#73
XXIceColdXX

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Well yeah they could have had many more games focusing on other enemies like ME2 did with the collectors. When Shepard stopped Sovereign, it should have bought us time for at least 3 or more games before the Reapers worked out a way to arrive from dark space.

#74
Steelcan

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OperatingWookie wrote...

Great series so far based on sales.

. So Call of Duty is "great"

#75
TheBlackBaron

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

So, to go back to the start, no. I don't think the ending doomed the ME franchise. It could even well continue on a variety of paths: it could try to be a lot of ME2-style companion-based games. It could be a standard sci-fi space opera with political focuses. It could do something else.

But I think the biggest anchor around its neck from this time forward comes from the loss of the Reapers as the Big Bad. Not how they ended.


Dean hits the nail on the head here.

Part of me wonder if that wasn't part of the reasoning for introducing the Leviathans, in order to give the next few mainline games something to focus on. It'd be ridiculously formulaic, yes, especially since you'd basically just be fighting organic Reapers, but the ME series from the start as been an attempt at reconstructing the space opera with a veneer of hard science fiction (note that I said "attempt" - you're entitled to your opinion on hoe well it achieved that). Hard to get more formulaic than that. They key is to do something new and interesting with that formula.