267 réponses à ce sujet

[Meltemph]

It can be a franchise, but it has no chance of becoming a Forgotten Realms, Song of Fire and Ice, or even Star Wars due to the way they ended ME3. The MEU is essentially dead now, without a retcon or handwave in a fairly large way. Sure, they can pump out games, like a madden game, but I'm not sure how you can ever have a recognizable setting, without rectifying issues ME3 caused.

The appeal to the MEU, at least for me, was that even without the reapers(Me2 proved this) the setting is very enjoyable, in fact more so without the reapers. ME3 even though I didnt think the reaper story arc was any good, had enough there, that I could still enjoy it, if it wasnt for the fact that the ending broke the MEU.

If they do a reboot, to me, that would be admitting they are turning it into a madden, and I wont be interested.

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 février 2013 - 02:51 .

[Bronze65]

Unless this new DLC somehow affects, goes beyond or does something related to the endings, I will not be buying it - just as I didn't buy Leviathan or Omega. And I will not even second glance at "ME4". I don't even know that I'll buy DA3 at this point.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I got an idea. Let's just embrace the idea that Shepard comes back. So what if you sacrified Shepard. Big deal. So what? Hell, bring back Mordin too. Bring 'em back The Illusive Man too! And Anderson! Who cares if they died.

We'll just call this a parallel universe where the Council had brains and didn't derp their way someone figured out how to remap the Alpha Relay did this:

* remapped it to the galactic core relay.
* adjusted the drift on that core relay so that it would drop them in the black hole. All via the Citadel!
* reapers come in via Alpha relay? Whoops.
* bye bye reapers.
* they'd never figure out something was wrong
* then we nuke the intelligence in the Citadel.

Clean slate, no reapers. Gone!

Now, start your new plot and stuff. Doesn't have to be a huge threat. Let's go where no one has gone before!

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 18 février 2013 - 03:04 .

[BigTuna82]

Tomb Raider got a re-boot. ME with Shepard will too eventually.

[spirosz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Well, technically 3D, you do win all in three endings, in terms of the end of Reaper War, lol.

But no.  It's not winning something when it's really handed to you and you aren't given the choice of actually trying to get it for yourself.  You have really only one choice here-pick a color.  You aren't winning anything.  You're giving in to the crap programming of an AI by Leviathan, and whoever made the stupidly designed Crucible.  That's not a win in my book.  And it doesn't feel at all like one.

That isn't the point 3D, you still end the war.  That is a win for many people's eyes and I'm not trying to defend the endings or say you're wrong, ending the war is still a crucial point, even if it's not executed in a great way or making the player feel like they "won".  

[adneate]

Some franchises survive horrible creator induced deaths, I mean Disney is going to make more Star Wars movies after the total ruination of the series with the atrocious Prequel movies. At the end of the day ME4 will be made if someone somewhere in the evil tower of EA can be convinced it will make money. Even if all common sense and decency says otherwise, if an analyst says:

"That Massed Effects made a chunk of change let's get them BioTear guys in Australia or wherever the hell Edmoncton is to crank another out. We'll get em' 2 times the budget and 1/5th of the time and it'll make 50% more money than last time! It'll be Massed Effects 4: Duty of Honor Fighter the kids will love! It'll be purfect!"

It'll get greenlight, heck even after MOH: Warfighter EA isn't totally giving that franchise up despite poor reviews and losing their shirts on the project. To them it just needs a time out before customers are lining up for more MOH: GunShooter.

But Mass Effect is ruined for me personally and that's all I really care about.

[CronoDragoon]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
 But the way I see it, any chances Mass Effect had to become a massive franchise on the level of something like Star Trek, has been destroyed. 

I sincerely doubt that was ever really in play. Mass Effect isn't even a giant video game franchise compared to other "giants" like CoD or Assassin's Creed.

[spirosz]

CronoDragoon wrote...
I sincerely doubt that was ever really in play. Mass Effect isn't even a giant video game franchise compared to other "giants" like CoD or Assassin's Creed.

It's a smaller giant, but still a giant, ha. 

[3DandBeyond]

spirosz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Well, technically 3D, you do win all in three endings, in terms of the end of Reaper War, lol.

But no.  It's not winning something when it's really handed to you and you aren't given the choice of actually trying to get it for yourself.  You have really only one choice here-pick a color.  You aren't winning anything.  You're giving in to the crap programming of an AI by Leviathan, and whoever made the stupidly designed Crucible.  That's not a win in my book.  And it doesn't feel at all like one.

That isn't the point 3D, you still end the war.  That is a win for many people's eyes and I'm not trying to defend the endings or say you're wrong, ending the war is still a crucial point, even if it's not executed in a great way or making the player feel like they "won".  

I get your point and don't mean to be argumentative at all.  It's just that there's a big difference in gaming (and more importantly in story telling) between ending a thing and feeling that ending.  In a lot of games, movies, and books, especially about war the ending is that high point where every emotion is laid bare.  And it doesn't even have to be some big epic battle, but it could just be a feeling of finally defeating the enemy.  That's a win.  Just ending the war is like going to see what you are told will be a huge fireworks display and all you get are five kids running around with sparklers.  That's how this feels to me. 

[spirosz]

Fair enough and I'm assuming that is mainly tied to the execution of ME3's endings? Not the themes tied towards the endings?

[3DandBeyond]

spirosz wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
I sincerely doubt that was ever really in play. Mass Effect isn't even a giant video game franchise compared to other "giants" like CoD or Assassin's Creed.

It's a smaller giant, but still a giant, ha. 

They needed to build on what they did well instead of trying to continually rewrite it all.  Each game plays like some new franchise in effect and ME3 is the most disconnected.

They have a real problem between listening and understanding.  Someone didn't like everything about the Mako, so instead of maybe tweaking it, they dropped it.  Same with Harbinger.  Same even with the original endings and the EC-the EC's main focus seems to be to make everyone understand the relays didn't explode and destroy the galaxy.  So, everything in the slides seems geared to show happy smiley faces or things being fixed.  But that just isn't reality based.

[CronoDragoon]

3DandBeyond wrote...
They needed to build on what they did well instead of trying to continually rewrite it all.  Each game plays like some new franchise in effect and ME3 is the most disconnected.

In my opinion they did build on what they did well. The gameplay in ME3 is better than 2 and far better than 1. I thought the exploration in ME1 was crappy and boring. So they dropped it and focused on the shooting. Obviously people who value RPG-style gameplay for its own sake can feel disappointed, but ultimately I feel the Mass Effect games have been better for it. 

And that's coming from a big RPG fan.

[spirosz]

To me, each game felt way more standalone, compared to really flowing as a trilogy. I guess that's where some of my disconnect came into play when all the sudden, a massive amount of dialogue was playing on my screen without my input and I was going "wait, what?". It didn't help that the CC turned my Shepard into something else as well, the one I got attached to, through the few years of using the same face since ME1.

[Wayning_Star]

I dunno 3d.. I got to turn everyones eyes green, cheat nature out of a few evolutionary tricks, matchmake Eid/Joker, homoginize detroyers/controllers/refusers,just after getting resurrected.

Chased by assorted females and find new friends that'd otherwise be burried,end a reaper thread and possibly spit in the Leviathans orbital eye sockets,while knocking on heavens door..

Not bad for years play,eh?

[3DandBeyond]

spirosz wrote...

Fair enough and I'm assuming that is mainly tied to the execution of ME3's endings? Not the themes tied towards the endings?

I have a real problem with the implementation of it all as well as the outcomes.  Endings need to be a place where questions are answered in great part and where the conflict is resolved.  For it to keep a viewer, reader, player emotionally tied to it, the person must have a connection.  The kid severs the connection.  The themes are twisted, in that Shepard is made to just limply oblige and make one of three choices that I can't see Shepard making.  And refuse is a dead end. 

Thematically, it stinks as well.  Sure, organics and synthetics fight.  However, this cycle the biggest fight that has occurred showed that synthetics that had superceded their creators DECIDED not to kill them all, and didn't look to kill all organic life. 

But even if themes were ignored then the implementation at least could have been a lot better.  Even an argument where Shepard can put up some resistance to this, or even be appalled that this is why they spent all that time and effort-to build this thing that is only there to solve the kid's problem.  And some debate over his faulty logic.  Something.  If I watch that portion again (and it's mostly watching with some button presses), I can think of a million things Shepard would say, but that s/he can't say.  I have a lot of emotion, but none of it is good because I see the ending with the kid and especially with Leviathan's information, as silly and ridiculous.  The kid sees Shepard as a threat and then says "here, make these choices.  Two will kill you. One might, but maybe it won't.  You try it and see."

[Armass81]

Did Star Trek V kill Star Trek?

Did the prequels kill Star Wars?

No it didnt. Mistakes happen, this will not kill the franchise. Only thing that can kill the franchise is if the creators just stop caring, at all. If the passion just dies out and it just becomes a soulless money making machine for EA. Then it will truly die.

Modifié par Armass81, 18 février 2013 - 04:13 .

[3DandBeyond]

spirosz wrote...

To me, each game felt way more standalone, compared to really flowing as a trilogy. I guess that's where some of my disconnect came into play when all the sudden, a massive amount of dialogue was playing on my screen without my input and I was going "wait, what?". It didn't help that the CC turned my Shepard into something else as well, the one I got attached to, through the few years of using the same face since ME1.

Yes, ME3 felt way more like a running cutscene with the autodialog. 

[spirosz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Fair enough and I'm assuming that is mainly tied to the execution of ME3's endings? Not the themes tied towards the endings?

I have a real problem with the implementation of it all as well as the outcomes.  Endings need to be a place where questions are answered in great part and where the conflict is resolved.  For it to keep a viewer, reader, player emotionally tied to it, the person must have a connection.  The kid severs the connection.  The themes are twisted, in that Shepard is made to just limply oblige and make one of three choices that I can't see Shepard making.  And refuse is a dead end. 

Thematically, it stinks as well.  Sure, organics and synthetics fight.  However, this cycle the biggest fight that has occurred showed that synthetics that had superceded their creators DECIDED not to kill them all, and didn't look to kill all organic life. 

But even if themes were ignored then the implementation at least could have been a lot better.  Even an argument where Shepard can put up some resistance to this, or even be appalled that this is why they spent all that time and effort-to build this thing that is only there to solve the kid's problem.  And some debate over his faulty logic.  Something.  If I watch that portion again (and it's mostly watching with some button presses), I can think of a million things Shepard would say, but that s/he can't say.  I have a lot of emotion, but none of it is good because I see the ending with the kid and especially with Leviathan's information, as silly and ridiculous.  The kid sees Shepard as a threat and then says "here, make these choices.  Two will kill you. One might, but maybe it won't.  You try it and see."

You know, maybe that's why I liked the scene in Matrix so much, where Neo says Bullshit.  

I don't know, making sense of why Bioware chose certain ways of expressing these last segments of the game is something I won't get as a fan, honestly. 

Modifié par spirosz, 18 février 2013 - 03:35 .

[Sparrow44]

...

Modifié par Sparrow44, 18 février 2013 - 03:52 .

[3DandBeyond]

Armass81 wrote...

Did Star Trek V kill Star Trek....?

Did the prequels kill Star Wars?

No it didnt.

Ha, well Star Trek actually was a really small series that was constantly over budget in its day and it was the fans that made it huge.  The fans kept it alive, which paved the way for the movies and for TNG, Deep Space Nine, and well, Voyager.  As well as Enterprise and now the new movies.

The Star Wars prequels also came in the wake of a huge blockbuster trilogy that redefined SF movies.  Prior to SW, scifi was low budget (b movies) or really niche, like 2001 (esoteric).  Star Wars paved the way for the Star Trek movies, the Battlestar Gallactica tv show (the first one) and Alien and many others.  And Star Wars had something that ME3 does not-a happier ending.  And even the dead got a reunion.  Star Wars also had a huge huge audience by the time the prequels came out and even though they weren't as well-received as the original trilogy, they were enough.  People didn't by and large dislike them overwhelmingly.

To make a direct comparison you'd have to have The Return of the Jedi end with the Empire giving Luke a choice of joining with them (and dying), controlling the storm troopers (and dying), or destroying the emperor and his forces and killing R2D2, C3PO, and all other droids as well as damaging all tech and so on, with his fate being that he gets hit by an explosion that should kill him, but maybe doesn't.

[lmxar]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Of course not. Most people on here will pre-order the next ME game after a few trailers and screen shots. They just don't want to admit it yet.

Most people HERE will.  People here are willing to stick around on a franchise's forums nearly a year after release; but what about all of the ME fans that just up and left after they beat the game?  Most of my friends that were ME fans just up and left the forums and everything to do with the series after they saw the ending and BW's response to the fan's reaction.  They sold their copies back, those that bought it on PC that couldn't return haven't even bothered with the EC; not to mention the other DLCs.  The OP is right, and the current forumites fall under the category of people that are still fans, and (as he stated) even still we are divided about the endings.  Many of the fans left in droves, and while the EC helped, it did not completely rectify the fanbase's attitude towards ME.  Look at the rate the forum moves at now compared to a month after the game was released, then even a month after the EC.  It has slowed down a lot.  I am willing to go out on a limb and say many of those that left were fans that have become disenchanted with the franchise.  I would even hazard a guess that while many here may impulsively pre order the next ME game, many others will remember the promises of ME3 and how they panned out; instead opting to wait for a few game reviews before spending the $60+ for a new AAA title game.

The next ME game will likely suffer in pre-order sales compared to ME3.  The upcoming DLC will popbably affect the next ME game's sales, as will the upcoming Dragon Age game.  I hope Bioware can deliver a product as enjoyable as the first two ME games and the first two storyline arcs in ME3.  Bioware definitely CAN do it, and I hope that they will.

[Cuttlebone]

... yes (;_

[DirtyPhoenix]

double post

Modifié par pirate1802, 18 février 2013 - 03:49 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

AlanC9 wrote...

KevShep wrote...


BTW, in almost every series to any game/movie the fan made stuff is always better then the actuall writers because of the passion that the fans have is more creative then the writers who are not as passionate.

Really? I've seen an awful lot of bad fan Trek over the years.

Maybe because the fans already have a groundwork of the universe laid out by the professional writers, have no pressure, deadline to meet or anybody interfaring with their works, and have a good model of how-not-to-do-things (for example, ME3 endings). Its kinda unfair to compare the wrks of writers who created the whole universe themselves with those who just create 1% of it based on the already-created 99% stuff. If they were to create an original universe from the grounds up, then we're talkin'.

Also what AlanC9 said. There are good, bad and horrible fan creations.It's not a rule that fan creations will always be better than the original thing.

[3DandBeyond]

spirosz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


I have a real problem with the implementation of it all as well as the outcomes.  Endings need to be a place where questions are answered in great part and where the conflict is resolved.  For it to keep a viewer, reader, player emotionally tied to it, the person must have a connection.  The kid severs the connection.  The themes are twisted, in that Shepard is made to just limply oblige and make one of three choices that I can't see Shepard making.  And refuse is a dead end. 

Thematically, it stinks as well.  Sure, organics and synthetics fight.  However, this cycle the biggest fight that has occurred showed that synthetics that had superceded their creators DECIDED not to kill them all, and didn't look to kill all organic life. 

But even if themes were ignored then the implementation at least could have been a lot better.  Even an argument where Shepard can put up some resistance to this, or even be appalled that this is why they spent all that time and effort-to build this thing that is only there to solve the kid's problem.  And some debate over his faulty logic.  Something.  If I watch that portion again (and it's mostly watching with some button presses), I can think of a million things Shepard would say, but that s/he can't say.  I have a lot of emotion, but none of it is good because I see the ending with the kid and especially with Leviathan's information, as silly and ridiculous.  The kid sees Shepard as a threat and then says "here, make these choices.  Two will kill you. One might, but maybe it won't.  You try it and see."

You know, maybe that's why I liked the scene in Matrix so much, where Neo says Bullshit.  

I don't know, making sense of why Bioware chose certain ways of expressing these last segments of the game is something I won't get as a fan, honestly. 

Yeah, see I look at Babylon 5's chaos and order ending and that was great.  Sheridan tells them to get the hell out of our galaxy.  People showed they stood together and it was emotional.  I even would have liked it if Shepard could have caused his logic to just blow up.  It would have been great if Shepard could have refuted what he said, in a confrontation and had his programming shut down and either stop the reapers or make them vulnerable.