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[EpicBoot2daFace]

addiction21 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Mike Laidlaw's defense of the game only helped to brew even more contempt for the game and Bioware as a company.

I know right? How dare someone not agree with us. Those filthy dirty scumbags.

This is the same guy who was shocked by the 6/10's and couldn't wrap his head around those scores. Those are the reviews he needs to be paying attention to. They list everything that's wrong with the game and gave it a fair score.

When those lower scores were brought up, he should have said "Yeah, we made some mistakes with DA2 and we'll try harder next time." NOT "Well, I just don't understand those scores." <----- Do you see the difference? As a reader, his comments make him sound out of touch and dismissive of any kind of criticism. And people don't see it as just Mike's opinion, they see it as Bioware's opinion.

Everything that could go wrong with DA2 did go wrong. Prior to release, the game had a terrible PR campaign (Push A for awesome!) and then the game came out and got thrashed by fans. Follow that up with Mike's defense of the game and you have a **** storm of negativity with people putting on their life jackets and abandoning ship.

[Melca36]

addiction21 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Mike Laidlaw's defense of the game only helped to brew even more contempt for the game and Bioware as a company.

I know right? How dare someone not agree with us. Those filthy dirty scumbags.

I recall reading a tweet from Mr Laidlaw awhile ago admitting there was some things in DA2 that they could have done better.

[devSin]

David Gaider wrote...

Some of the planned expansion story has been folded into DA3, so you won't see us commenting on the form it would have taken (or could have-- it's usually rare to have a project turn out exactly like it's planned). I'll miss it, myself, for a variety of reasons... and had we known ahead of time things were going to work out as they did, we might have done things a little differently in the DA2 DLC's (even though I thought they both turned out really well). But c'est la vie, I guess. Hopefully you'll agree the effort on DA3 is worth it when you finally get a look.

You should see if Mike and Mark would go for a DLC for DA3 where you can play as Hawke as a means to give some greater closure to that story (more than you could do in a codex entry or a conversation with one of the former companions).

It's definitely something I'd want to see, although I know a one-off scenario like that isn't at all likely.

I'm not sure what to expect with DA3, and I'm afraid I'm always going to feel that the trade-off wasn't worth it. Sure, DA3 would have contained less, but DA2 would have contained more, and it would have given Eclipse an even better send-off (I'm sure the decision to switch was made or mandated before you even released DA2, so it's not like you guys didn't already know it was EOLed) and provided a more fulfilling conclusion to Hawke's story (and our companions' stories, before they dispersed).

The skepticism of somebody who thought DA2 wasn't the greatest game but still appreciated the story and characters, I guess.

[addiction21]

..

Modifié par addiction21, 19 février 2013 - 06:41 .

[KotorEffect3]

While I personally enjoyed DA 2 that game was overall flawed and considering the overall reaction that game got from the community it is probably in the best overall interest of the series to just move on and work on the third game. The DA team wants to move on and probably distance themselves from the controversies of DA 2.

[ScotGaymer]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Mike Laidlaw's defense of the game only helped to brew even more contempt for the game and Bioware as a company.

I know right? How dare someone not agree with us. Those filthy dirty scumbags.

This is the same guy who was shocked by the 6/10's and couldn't wrap his head around those scores. Those are the reviews he needs to be paying attention to. They list everything that's wrong with the game and gave it a fair score.

When those lower scores were brought up, he should have said "Yeah, we made some mistakes with DA2 and we'll try harder next time." NOT "Well, I just don't understand those scores." <----- Do you see the difference? As a reader, his comments make him sound out of touch and dismissive of any kind of criticism. And people don't see it as just Mike's opinion, they see it as Bioware's opinion.

Everything that could go wrong with DA2 did go wrong. Prior to release, the game had a terrible PR campaign (Push A for awesome!) and then the game came out and got thrashed by fans. Follow that up with Mike's defense of the game and you have a **** storm of negativity with people putting on their life jackets and abandoning ship.

I am sorry are you confusing Mike with certain members of the ME3 team regarding its fanbase humiliation post release?

I was around during the DA2 release debacle, and I never once saw Mike (or David) or any of the other devs say anything remotely like that. In fact I seem to remember Mike himself saying the exact opposite - the exact thing that you demanded he ought to have said.
Maybe at the start of it he (and the DA team) were a little in disbelief about it to begin with because they may have genuinely though the game deserved higher than 5 or 6 out of 10 (which it does btw) but then later changed their opinion when people began actually explaining -objectively (a word you seem to not know what it means)- the reasons why they disliked DA2.

The thing that you said happened with DA2? Didn't happen. If it did, it only happened in your head.

The sh*tstorm didn't happen for BW until ME3 hit. And THEN people went mental. At the ME team. Perhaps the DA team got a little of the backwash because DA2 wasn't as good as it ought to have been, but for the most part there was no sh*tstorm regarding DA2.
Note I am not denying that there was a lot of negativity regarding its release, but honestly most people seemed to want to be fair to DA2 and to the dev team.

DA2 was a fanon failure.
TOR was a fanon failure.
And then ME3 was a catastrophic fanon failure.

By the time the fanbase got to ME3, it was then that they got incoherently ragey, and the cited sh*tstorm erupted. Because it was bioware's third epic flop in a row.

The bruhahaha regarding DA2 was nowhere near the level of the backlash against ME3.

I think you need to stop it with the hyperbole man. Drop that, and drop the tude that your opinion is OBJECTIVE FACT and everyone elses opinion is SUBJECTIVE OPINION READ:WRONG. Because if you keep it up you are only going to get banned.

[TUHD]

Actually, while EpicBoot2daFace has some details wrong re. the post you quoted, the majority of it is in fact, correct. You both make mistakes when it comes to time/comment-related stuff (although I think that there wasn't a 'I can't believe the low scores'-comment from Laidlaw, because he was 'in hiding' as not to enrage people more).
As a matter of fact, post-release the DAII forums WERE pissed off. And clearly split between pro- and 'anti'-DAII players. An discussion which effectively ended after 1) it got clear Bioware wasn't going to take the enraged players (which were in general DA:O-players) very serious at that time and 2) there was a consistent group of pro-DAII'ers (and an occasional mod) who were trolling and flaming/flamebaiting the 'anti'-DAIIers.
I believe that bloody 'Suck it up princess' stems from that time... (I still haven't forgiven you for that comment Gaider ^^)

As for the topic itself: it's too bad, but if larger parts of the main storyline are coming back as either playable parts or canon into DAIII, I don't mind.

[David Gaider]

TUHD wrote...
I believe that bloody 'Suck it up princess' stems from that time... (I still haven't forgiven you for that comment Gaider ^^)

As someone who claims to have the low-down on what these two are discussing, I'm surprised you don't know about this one. My "suck it up, princess" comment relates solely to someone who had posted a thread criticising something (I'm not even sure if it was about DA2-- might have been before it came out) and sent a message to me personally demanding that I ban someone who was "trolling their thread".

After checking it out, I saw the person was disagreeing with them-- politely, as it turned out, but insistently. They refused to leave his thread, and thus he got angry and wanted them banned. As we don't ban people for polite disagreement, pro-DA or anti-DA, I felt (and still feel) my response to him justified.

If you believe my comment related to other things, so be it. I think it's a bit like my comment about Twilight romance (which clearly means I love Twilight, obvs) or Mike's supposed reaction to DA2 reviews-- I have no idea where that came from-- in that it's something that gets referred to by others and then believed as gospel. If it makes you feel better, you can believe what you wish. Ultimately, DA3 will be the barometer regarding whether you think we've listened enough. It does seem like some don't even need to see DA3 to decide that's the case, but what can you do?

Me, I'm just hard at work on the upcoming game.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 février 2013 - 01:04 .

[Nashimura]

TUHD is the member you said it too 

Modifié par Nashimura, 20 février 2013 - 01:16 .

[mcsupersport]

Take your time and get them as close to your idea of right as you can David, Gaider, please don't scrimp or shave off any more than you HAVE too. If that means working another month or two on the games, then beg, steal or borrow the time to get it where it needs to be. I would rather wait a bit longer for a game and get one that feels complete and whole rather than one cobbled together or half finished in feeling.

I hope for the best in DA3..I saw so much potential in what was trying to be done in DA2 that just seemed incomplete. I hope you get the time to do what I consider better in DA3, and it is something you enjoy having your name on and the fans love when you release it.

[David Gaider]

mcsupersport wrote...
Take your time and get them as close to your idea of right as you can David, Gaider, please don't scrimp or shave off any more than you HAVE too. If that means working another month or two on the games, then beg, steal or borrow the time to get it where it needs to be. I would rather wait a bit longer for a game and get one that feels complete and whole rather than one cobbled together or half finished in feeling.

While I agree with your sentiment, your suggestion is made to the wrong person. I neither control Dragon Age as a project, nor do I have input into how much time it's given to bake.

I hope for the best in DA3..I saw so much potential in what was trying to be done in DA2 that just seemed incomplete. I hope you get the time to do what I consider better in DA3, and it is something you enjoy having your name on and the fans love when you release it.

Ideally, yes.

[Fredward]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Nashimura wrote...

TUHD is the member you said it too 

Didn't that happen, like, over a year ago? Sheesh.

TUHD, you need to learn to let stuff go.

I think he did judging by the smiley face thing he used. Unless you were making a funny in which case MOAR SMILEY FACE THINGS!

[Fredward]

PurebredCorn wrote...

...Nashimura used the smiley.

Yeah! I was talking about you.

[mcsupersport]

David Gaider wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...
Take your time and get them as close to your idea of right as you can David, Gaider, please don't scrimp or shave off any more than you HAVE too. If that means working another month or two on the games, then beg, steal or borrow the time to get it where it needs to be. I would rather wait a bit longer for a game and get one that feels complete and whole rather than one cobbled together or half finished in feeling.

While I agree with your sentiment, your suggestion is made to the wrong person. I neither control Dragon Age as a project, nor do I have input into how much time it's given to bake.

I hope for the best in DA3..I saw so much potential in what was trying to be done in DA2 that just seemed incomplete. I hope you get the time to do what I consider better in DA3, and it is something you enjoy having your name on and the fans love when you release it.

Ideally, yes.

Hmmm, you may not control the baking time....but I did mention, BEG, STEAL or BORROW the time didn't I....get creative....

[Wozearly]

TUHD wrote...

I believe that bloody 'Suck it up princess' stems from that time... (I still haven't forgiven you for that comment Gaider ^^)

David Gaider wrote...

My "suck it up,
princess" comment relates solely to someone who had posted a thread
criticising something (I'm not even sure if it was about DA2-- might
have been before it came out) and sent a message to me personally
demanding that I ban someone who was "trolling their thread".

TUHD - as someone who saw that thread and watched the "suck it up princess" comment get taken out of context and blown out of proportion by a (justifiably) angry group of posters, David Gaider's description is accurate.

It was never about fan relations, or about people's reactions to DA2. It was only that the comment out of context seemed to sum up how the detractors thought Bioware was reacting to criticism due to the silence while the storm was in full flow.

Although I as furious as the other DA2 detractors with the lack of engagement at the time, with hindsight I don't think it was a bad call. A lot of people were high on rage and short on rationality, and its very unlikely there were going to be any reasonable discussions while people were demanding Mike Laidlaw be sacked.

[Commander Kurt]

Well, the "we decided to relocate our resources"-answer is rather obvious, but I guess the question is "Why?" What prompted that sudden relocation? Couldn't DA3 just wait for a few months longer if lack of manpower was the case?

I don't know anything about how these things work, mind you. It's just interesting to discuss the planning process.

David Gaider wrote...

My "suck it up, princess" comment[...]

I hadn't heard of this before, but since I saw it every post you write is now narrated by Varric in my head. Which is awesome!

[Pasquale1234]

Commander Kurt wrote...

Well, the "we decided to relocate our resources"-answer is rather obvious, but I guess the question is "Why?" What prompted that sudden relocation? Couldn't DA3 just wait for a few months longer if lack of manpower was the case?

Retailers weren't interested in stocking it.  They still had too many copies of DA2 to dust around.

[Fiddzz]

Commander Kurt wrote...

Well, the "we decided to relocate our resources"-answer is rather obvious, but I guess the question is "Why?" What prompted that sudden relocation? Couldn't DA3 just wait for a few months longer if lack of manpower was the case?

I don't know anything about how these things work, mind you. It's just interesting to discuss the planning process.

I wasn't here at the time, but I would assume that it might have had something to do with the new engine and ramping people up on that was a better long term investment.

[Fast Jimmy]

Blair Brown wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

Well, the "we decided to relocate our resources"-answer is rather obvious, but I guess the question is "Why?" What prompted that sudden relocation? Couldn't DA3 just wait for a few months longer if lack of manpower was the case?

I don't know anything about how these things work, mind you. It's just interesting to discuss the planning process.

I wasn't here at the time, but I would assume that it might have had something to do with the new engine and ramping people up on that was a better long term investment.

Speaking of, If you had to compare the Frostbite 2 engine with a type of pie, what kind would it be? And why?

Please be specific.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 22 février 2013 - 02:12 .

[Commander Kurt]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

Well, the "we decided to relocate our resources"-answer is rather obvious, but I guess the question is "Why?" What prompted that sudden relocation? Couldn't DA3 just wait for a few months longer if lack of manpower was the case?

Retailers weren't interested in stocking it. They still had too many copies of DA2 to dust around.

Really, you're thinking they made a poll or something? I honestly didn't know one could even buy DLC retail, I always download it off the web (where stocking issues are a somewhat minor concern).

Blair Brown wrote...

I wasn't here at the time, but I would assume that it might have had something to do with the new engine and ramping people up on that was a better long term investment.

Hmm, yes. I suppose that makes some sense. Then it was the descision to switch engines that caused the timeframe for DA:I to expand, eating up the resources for an expansion in the process. I wonder if that means that the original timeframe for DA:I was similar to that of DA2.

Modifié par Commander Kurt, 22 février 2013 - 10:49 .

[Pasquale1234]

Commander Kurt wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

Well, the "we decided to relocate our resources"-answer is rather obvious, but I guess the question is "Why?" What prompted that sudden relocation? Couldn't DA3 just wait for a few months longer if lack of manpower was the case?

Retailers weren't interested in stocking it. They still had too many copies of DA2 to dust around.

Really, you're thinking they made a poll or something? I honestly didn't know one could even buy DLC retail, I always download it off the web (where stocking issues are a somewhat minor concern).

IIRC (it's been awhile), Exalted March was planned as an Ex-pack, not standard DLC.  At one point, Mr. Darrah had tweeted something about lack of retailer interest, and the project was cancelled.

No, I'm not going to search for the links - if you're interested, have at it.