311 réponses à ce sujet

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Great thread, ten points for OP.

It's time people learn to use this gun as a boss killer (as those move slower and therefore the crosshair must not be moved this often) and keep the aim on one point for a long time, eliminating any delay in the process. This weapon should be called N7 Eradicator for the punch it packs.

[stormrider1012]

Sojiro888 wrote...

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

And if Jay says he doesn't like it, you know it's not just low skilled players with poor aim who don't like it.

It's not just  poor players, no. It requires to do the opposite of what some great players with great reflexes have learned to do with all weapons (waiting after making sure that their aim is true) so they understandably hate the thing.

So while using the gun right takes some skill (which could come from practice), said skill isn't just something that's hard to achieve for scrubs. It is also something that runs contrary to the habits of great players with amazing aim and reflexes.

i think this is primarily one of the reasons why a lot of players tend to shy away from the crusader. It was the first promo weapon I unlocked and used it for a while till I had other weapons. The firing mechanic is actually somewhat counter-intuitive on how you usually shoot in a game. It feels "too accurate" (if there is such a term) which is the reason it's really easy to miss in close range. You could say its actually the opposite of the javelin where you have to compensate for the fire delay while aiming. In the crusader, the slug actually hits where your aim was a moment ago (exactly where you press the trigger) which is before the game "shows" the gun firing off.
I do agree that the crusader is definitely a top-tier weapon, and with practice, this nuance can be compensated. But its also understandable why the gun gets a lot of vitriol. Ironically, it seems the better your aim is, the harder it is to adjust to the crusader.

Modifié par stormrider1012, 19 février 2013 - 10:36 .

[rlro]

^^^^
This.

And also the lag problem: when using it off-host, even a small lag makes you miss most mid-range/long-range shots.

[BjornDaDwarf]

rlro wrote...

^^^^
This.

And also the lag problem: when using it off-host, even a small lag makes you miss most mid-range/long-range shots.

In my experience, even off host, if the reticule is red, you will hit your target, even if you or it are moving.  That's the slight change to using it versus other weapons.  Just watch that mark, and as soon as it turns red, fire.  

It sounds ridiculously easy, but I think a lot of people don't pay attention to that.

[GunWraith]

Original Stikman wrote...

IIFlash wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

IIFlash wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

All of the cons can be compensated for, leaving you with one of the best 5 guns in the game.

Stopped reading here

So compensating for the cons is something you don't do with weapons?  You don't use the smart choke on wide spread shotguns?  Don't use Turian stability for the Hurricane?  Don't equip piercing mods/ammo on the Reegar?

That's just one of the most mystifying statements I've seen.

If it's that I claimed it's one of the top 5 guns in the game, on paper it really is.  The challenge is to turn that potential into reality.

Fascinating to see the reactions to this gun.  There's just no middle ground at all.

People (who don't wish to grow/expand) prefer to stick to what they know and be vocal about what they don't.

Any weapons cons can be compensated for, for example the Avenger's limited damage can be overcome by using Incendiary ammo, doesn't mean it's a good choice of weapon or top tier.
The Crusader on paper may be a top gun, but in-game application is far more important and in this it is found lacking. It is far from "one of the best 5 guns in the game"

I have also completed the "Crusader Use" challenge multiple times, this signifies that I have in fact used it quite a lot, this does not change the fact that I think poorly of it.

@Original Stikman - To say I do not wish to "grow/expand" is a very big assumption on your part, it is one which is also false, considering I frequently use near every weapon and character in the game as opposed to "sticking to what I know". I wonder if the same could be said of you...
I was also far from vocal

why didn't you just say those things instead of "stopped reading there"

what you just posted is informative and a good expirential perspective. But your first post seemed like you were trying to be "funny" or just dismissive of what bjorn was saying, which has a great point.

If it isn't in the top five, its close, not far. I know this from experience, and I am not the greates player in the Traverse. Its hands down, one of the best shotguns in the game (1. wraith, 2. Crusader, then follow the rares in no order: Raider, claymore, pirahna)

It is not one of the best shotguns in the game because it has one flaw no other shotgun experiences. It fails at Shieldgate. Which means it acts like a sniper rifle and then it is outclassed.

[TheKillerAngel]

There are no sniper rifles which deal ~1000 damage per shot and have 4 rounds.

[cronshaw]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

QFI - This is my absolute favorite class for this gun right now

I tried it once on her and it was pretty good
didn't like it as much as the Paladin though
I'll give it a try some more though
Just wish I had it at X instead of the Valiant

[TazMonkey2011]

I love it on my GI, on gold can ussually kill an atlas with two clips and proxy. Haven't used it for a while however might want to try it on something else.

It is like Bjorn has said if the reticule turns red shoot if it is blue do not shoot. Also in my experiance it does have piercing because Guardians go down real quick (mostly mailslotted from across the map) but i can 2 shot them up close as well.

[conk2000]

I never really used it outside of Silver, but it was definitely my funnest gun to solo bronze with. Especially with Reapers.... long range One-Hit-Kills for days!!!!!

[Najarati]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I was saying this months ago and now everyone is agreeing?!

Hah! I know the feeling. I've also been specifically citing the FQI as a great kit for the Crusader. You get excellent weapon strength, cloak, grenades, and a stunning power (Sabotage) for setting up headshots if needbe. I've been using this weapon/kit combo for months. I still recommend the Shock Trooper Upgrade for gear with the Shotgun HVB and Shotgun Spare Thermal Clip for weapon mods.

At any rate, at least more people are warming up to the Crusader.

[capn233]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

There are no sniper rifles which deal ~1000 damage per shot and have 4 rounds.

There aren't any shotguns that do that either

[Cohen le Barbare]

stormrider1012 wrote...
Ironically, it seems the better your aim is, the harder it is to adjust to the crusader.

That's why I rock with it :lol:

[HolyAvenger]

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

stormrider1012 wrote...
Ironically, it seems the better your aim is, the harder it is to adjust to the crusader.

That's why I rock with it :lol:

Me too

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

There are no sniper rifles which deal ~1000 damage per shot and have 4 rounds.

The TL/DR version of this whole thread.



And that's why one should use the Crusader.

Modifié par GeneralMoskvin_2.0, 19 février 2013 - 04:48 .

[BjornDaDwarf]

GunWraith wrote...

It is not one of the best shotguns in the game because it has one flaw no other shotgun experiences. It fails at Shieldgate. Which means it acts like a sniper rifle and then it is outclassed.

Shieldgate only matters if you are wasting large amounts of damage, like the old 1 shot snipers did.  The Crusader doesn't need to bypass SG, as it's very efficient in it's damage, one shot for shields and one shot for health (assuming you don't use a power for shield stripping).  You can do that in less than a second, and still have two shots left for the next target.  Or kill 4 unshielded mobs.  Or obliterate a boss.

The Saber can be worse about wasting damage.  Depending on the build, it may not one shot shields, meaning it can take 3 shots to kill a shielded target.

[HinDae]

I like the Crusader, it HAS been trolling me in Comm. Packs (from II to V in 3 weeks) its a great gun, I've always dun well with it, Wanna put it on my Destroyer for epic damage and RoF boosts.

[Najarati]

stormrider1012 wrote...
Ironically, it seems the better your aim is, the harder it is to adjust to the crusader.

While funny, I think there might be a small bit of truth to this.  I know I go through a small adjustment period if I was using the Sabre (or something similar) beforehand.

[Badpanzer]

Najarati wrote...

stormrider1012 wrote...
Ironically, it seems the better your aim is, the harder it is to adjust to the crusader.

While funny, I think there might be a small bit of truth to this.  I know I go through a small adjustment period if I was using the Sabre (or something similar) beforehand.

I think it may actually be true...I can use the crusader about as well as I do any other gun and Im no crack marksman,yet a friend who is a good shot hates it because of the fire delay.

[Original Twigman]

IIFlash wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

IIFlash wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

IIFlash wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

All of the cons can be compensated for, leaving you with one of the best 5 guns in the game.

Stopped reading here

So compensating for the cons is something you don't do with weapons?  You don't use the smart choke on wide spread shotguns?  Don't use Turian stability for the Hurricane?  Don't equip piercing mods/ammo on the Reegar?

That's just one of the most mystifying statements I've seen.

If it's that I claimed it's one of the top 5 guns in the game, on paper it really is.  The challenge is to turn that potential into reality.

Fascinating to see the reactions to this gun.  There's just no middle ground at all.

People (who don't wish to grow/expand) prefer to stick to what they know and be vocal about what they don't.

Any weapons cons can be compensated for, for example the Avenger's limited damage can be overcome by using Incendiary ammo, doesn't mean it's a good choice of weapon or top tier.
The Crusader on paper may be a top gun, but in-game application is far more important and in this it is found lacking. It is far from "one of the best 5 guns in the game"

I have also completed the "Crusader Use" challenge multiple times, this signifies that I have in fact used it quite a lot, this does not change the fact that I think poorly of it.

@Original Stikman - To say I do not wish to "grow/expand" is a very big assumption on your part, it is one which is also false, considering I frequently use near every weapon and character in the game as opposed to "sticking to what I know". I wonder if the same could be said of you...
I was also far from vocal

why didn't you just say those things instead of "stopped reading there"

what you just posted is informative and a good expirential perspective. But your first post seemed like you were trying to be "funny" or just dismissive of what bjorn was saying, which has a great point.

If it isn't in the top five, its close, not far. I know this from experience, and I am not the greates player in the Traverse. Its hands down, one of the best shotguns in the game (1. wraith, 2. Crusader, then follow the rares in no order: Raider, claymore, pirahna)

Because that was the point at which I realised any counter arguement would not be taken seriously by OP. Listing all Pro's and Con's and then basically saying the Con's don't matter. By this logic I could say the Claymore beats the Crusader hands down in every aspect:
Innate armor piercing? who needs it when you have HVB
Damage? it does more than twice that of the Crusader and isn't affected by shieldgate
Accuracy? can be compensated for with Smart Choke
Clip & RoF? easily compensated for with reload cancel
Weight? at level 10 they weigh the same and HVB still doesn't add additional weight to original weapons
Did I miss anything important?

I can understand some people saying it is better than the Raider due to range limitation, but IMO the Raider is far better especially off host, nothing in the game can stand up to a triple shot Raider for long.
I hate the Piranha, I find it boring to use.

awwwwwww, come on Flash! That is an assumption!!! Why didn't you just try to make the point you just made?

here is what i would say about the claymore. Compensation does not equal Comparison

While smart choke can help with accuracy, it simply cannot perform the long, highly accurate shots, a Crusader can. Every shotgun in the game can't compare with it's distance due to spread.  When hitting mooks, the claymore may be able to hurt them substantially. But a distanced claymore shot against a brute, ravager, phantom (any high armor/shield enemy), is going to do very little, as each pellet is going to take penalties. The crusader will hit full damage, everytime.

Armore piercing only goes up to 65%.... so it doesn't compare as high as armor piercing on a crusader (which should always be taken). the difference may be negligble however.

Shield gate can be negated with phasic rounds

The double damage is a valid point. The only issue is that the damage is more often (on gold) overkill.

While reload cancel can compensate, it cannot compete with extra spare ammo + a fast reload speed. That is why people will take a black widow over the regular widow. Less damage, but more shots. ** Don't forget, that if you muck up the reload cancel, which is easy on xbox, you can really be stuck for a few seconds***

[Drunkencelt]

I have always used the crusader since I got it on xbox then pc. Still weighs too much. That is my only complaint. The weight reduces the classes I could use it on. Zero justification for the weight since it already has innate drawbacks. Using this gun will also improve your aim.

[Drunkencelt]

Don't forget your damage numbers are based on versions of the guns a lot of people don't have yet. The only thing I want out of com packs are crusaders(maybe hurricane) but I never get it.

[Zjarcal]

It's a very solid weapon on the classes that can stagger enemies (love it on my Salarian Infiltrator), but that's it, would never use it on other classes.

I've grown to like it a bit simply because when it works properly, it's certainly a very sweet weapon, but there's no excuse at all for the aim bug crap (thank god it was confirmed to be a bug so people would shut up about it being part of its design).

stormrider1012 wrote...

Ironically, it seems the better your aim is, the harder it is to adjust to the crusader.

That doesn't speak well of it.

[Forquet]

All in the eye of the beholder...I used to think the Crusader was a joke, looking at some of the comments posted here I was not alone in this.

However, the joke has been on me that I have avoided this outstanding weapon for so long. It is as advertized, a sawed off Black Widow. After trying it with several kits I settled on the Salarian Infiltrator. Truly fantastic, but your mileage may vary....

[BjornDaDwarf]

Drunkencelt wrote...

Don't forget your damage numbers are based on versions of the guns a lot of people don't have yet. The only thing I want out of com packs are crusaders(maybe hurricane) but I never get it.

Eh, not really an argument against it though.  There have been several dozen promotional events now.  For long time players, having it above IV isn't unlikely.  And for newer players, there is always the small chance they will have it at II to IV, even if they've only been playing for less than two months.  Which will still probably put it higher than their best URs.

Drunkencelt wrote...

I have always used the crusader since I got it on xbox then pc. Still weighs too much. That is my only complaint. The weight reduces the classes I could use it on. Zero justification for the weight since it already has innate drawbacks. Using this gun will also improve your aim.

I used to think the weight was a negative, but given all the good things about it, I think the weight is okay.  It works on pretty much every soldier, every infiltrator, every grenade user, and every kit that relies predominantly on a single power.  That's a lot of kits.  

I would say that it works on more kits than the Typhoon, Pirahna, Raider, PPR, Javelin, BW or Reegar, the other weapons that put out more (or similar) damage.

[Miniditka77]

You know, I actually have been thinking of a good character to try the Crusader on, and I came up with the Turian Sentinel.  You could spec Overload for damage (or at least enough damage to completely strip any mook's shields) and spec the passive for maximum weapon damage and stability.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'm thinking of going 4/6/6/6/4.