303 réponses à ce sujet

[fainmaca]

Karlone123 wrote...

EdI and James Vega are uninteresting (Freddy Prince Jr is still good). Edi serves as the whole "Rights for Synthetics" platform and though James could be one of those who isn't widely known for having traumatic background as one the "normal ones", it's mostly the mandatory squad member that become the least favourite and the optional ones are the favourites.

Although James is a simple-minded Marine, he's a lot more interesting than Jacob could ever be. I would prefer to replace EDI with Legion because EDI is really uninteresting.

The problem for me with these two is that there's always going to be that resentment simmering away in the background because it feels like they're there at the expense of people I actually wanted to fight alongside.

Plus, I actually find Vega to be less interesting than Jacob. Could be because of the aforementioned bias, but I found the snippets we got of Jacob's past as a Corsair rather tantalising, and would have enjoyed learning more about him, whereas I just don't give a flying pyjak about Vega, even when watching his backstory in PL. Also, Jacob felt more like the kind of guy I would happily have as my wingman on the club scene. Vega, I'd leave as a work colleague and nothing more

spirosz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


The problem with old Bioware is that they "develop" characters just because you talk to them...in newer Bioware games, characters development through EVENTS IN THE STORY.

Developing a character by talking to them?  Blasphemy. 

I know, right? Imagine if it were possible to learn about real life people by engaging them in meaningful conversation!

[Karlone123]

fainmaca wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

EdI and James Vega are uninteresting (Freddy Prince Jr is still good). Edi serves as the whole "Rights for Synthetics" platform and though James could be one of those who isn't widely known for having traumatic background as one the "normal ones", it's mostly the mandatory squad member that become the least favourite and the optional ones are the favourites.

Although James is a simple-minded Marine, he's a lot more interesting than Jacob could ever be. I would prefer to replace EDI with Legion because EDI is really uninteresting.

The problem for me with these two is that there's always going to be that resentment simmering away in the background because it feels like they're there at the expense of people I actually wanted to fight alongside.

Plus, I actually find Vega to be less interesting than Jacob. Could be because of the aforementioned bias, but I found the snippets we got of Jacob's past as a Corsair rather tantalising, and would have enjoyed learning more about him, whereas I just don't give a flying pyjak about Vega, even when watching his backstory in PL. Also, Jacob felt more like the kind of guy I would happily have as my wingman on the club scene. Vega, I'd leave as a work colleague and nothing more

spirosz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


The problem with old Bioware is that they "develop" characters just because you talk to them...in newer Bioware games, characters development through EVENTS IN THE STORY.

Developing a character by talking to them?  Blasphemy. 

I know, right? Imagine if it were possible to learn about real life people by engaging them in meaningful conversation!

I'm probably judging on Jacob's lack of openess talk about himself, I think Jacob would have won more scores from me if he had a bit more to say, I like the conversation you have with after you meet the Illusive man for the first time, that's as open as he gets with people. After that he doesn't really want to talk much.

Maybe if Jacob returned as a squadmate, he would have been more likeable.

Modifié par Karlone123, 19 février 2013 - 07:03 .

[Raizo]

Overall ME3's squad wasn't bad so I wouldn't say that they are the reason why ME3 is lacking replay value ( there alot of reasons why ME3 has no replay value, this isn't one of them ).

ME3's choice of squadmates instead cripples ME2's replayability. Seriously, what was the point of ME2 if ME3 just throws all of ME2's squadmates onto a scrap heap and ignores them. I honestly can't think of a single reason to ever play ME2 ever again which is a shame since I used to love that game, it was my favourite game in the trilogy, and then Bioware ruined it and ME3.

[txgoldrush]

fainmaca wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

EdI and James Vega are uninteresting (Freddy Prince Jr is still good). Edi serves as the whole "Rights for Synthetics" platform and though James could be one of those who isn't widely known for having traumatic background as one the "normal ones", it's mostly the mandatory squad member that become the least favourite and the optional ones are the favourites.

Although James is a simple-minded Marine, he's a lot more interesting than Jacob could ever be. I would prefer to replace EDI with Legion because EDI is really uninteresting.

The problem for me with these two is that there's always going to be that resentment simmering away in the background because it feels like they're there at the expense of people I actually wanted to fight alongside.

Plus, I actually find Vega to be less interesting than Jacob. Could be because of the aforementioned bias, but I found the snippets we got of Jacob's past as a Corsair rather tantalising, and would have enjoyed learning more about him, whereas I just don't give a flying pyjak about Vega, even when watching his backstory in PL. Also, Jacob felt more like the kind of guy I would happily have as my wingman on the club scene. Vega, I'd leave as a work colleague and nothing more

spirosz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


The problem with old Bioware is that they "develop" characters just because you talk to them...in newer Bioware games, characters development through EVENTS IN THE STORY.

Developing a character by talking to them?  Blasphemy. 

I know, right? Imagine if it were possible to learn about real life people by engaging them in meaningful conversation!

Or maybe its just poor storytelling and also lazy. Disconnecting your characters to your plot is poor writing. This is why the DAO cast suffers. They develop very little because everything is done through conversation, not actual story (except Alistair). You don't actually see their struggle, they just tell you about it. Hell, Alistair and Loghain are really the only important characters in DAO, Morrigan if you want her offer. Everyone else is filler with no connection to the plot.

Wrex was the only character in ME1 to actually see a crisis, to see development through the actual plot, not because you talked to him three times

This is why KOTOR II fully restored is VASTLY superior to Bioware's first KOTOR. In KOTOR II, yes, you can conversate with the characters, but they develop because of the plot, not because you talked to them three times and run a minor errand for them. Hell in KOTOR II, you PLAY as your squadmates and HK47 actually determines the ending of the game. In KOTOR, they play very little role in the actual plot outside Bastila and Carth.

[txgoldrush]

Raizo wrote...

Overall ME3's squad wasn't bad so I wouldn't say that they are the reason why ME3 is lacking replay value ( there alot of reasons why ME3 has no replay value, this isn't one of them ).

ME3's choice of squadmates instead cripples ME2's replayability. Seriously, what was the point of ME2 if ME3 just throws all of ME2's squadmates onto a scrap heap and ignores them. I honestly can't think of a single reason to ever play ME2 ever again which is a shame since I used to love that game, it was my favourite game in the trilogy, and then Bioware ruined it and ME3.

Maybe because overall, most of ME2's cast were not important to the grand story, hence they get a side mission and thats it.

The more characters you have the more you have to account for....quantity =/= quality.

[Kel Riever]

No, I am pretty sure what ruined it for me was the fact that the ending(s) were atrocious and a complete failure.

[Neria Rose]

txgoldrush wrote...

This is why KOTOR II fully restored is VASTLY superior to Bioware's first KOTOR. In KOTOR II, yes, you can conversate with the characters, but they develop because of the plot, not because you talked to them three times and run a minor errand for them. Hell in KOTOR II, you PLAY as your squadmates and HK47 actually determines the ending of the game. In KOTOR, they play very little role in the actual plot outside Bastila and Carth.

Warning, my opinion follows: I loved KoTOR and despised KoTOR 2. Every time Bao-dur opened his mouth I wanted to punch him in the throat to get him to shut up. Kreia, Hanharr, and Visas Marr all bored me to tears. And taking that long to get my ship back was insanely irritating. The story was all over the place, was not particularly interesting, and trying to get the Exile involved with Atton was an exercise in futility. The only good parts were HK-47, G0-T0, Canderous, and pazaak.. and 3 of those 4 existed in KoTOR.

Oh, and I am loath to play a character aside from the main PC. Breaks immersion for me.

[Fresh Bamboo]

Yes.
And autodialog when interacting with squadmates.

[rallyfan]

Replace VS and Vega with two ME2 characters. This would bring a lot more replay value for me.

[Cecilia L]

No, I love all my squaddies

[L2 Sentinel]

rallyfan wrote...

Replace VS and Vega with two ME2 characters. This would bring a lot more replay value for me.

The decision on Virmire was one of the most intense moments in ME1 for a lot of people. Sidelining the VS for the rest of the trilogy only marginalizes that decision even further. Also, the VS and Liara are the original love interests. Liara had LotSB and the VS had pretty much nothing. Staying faithful or pursuing another love interest was a major decision in ME2, and ME3 needed to address that. Lastly, Shepard is back with the Alliance, yet you want to cut every Alliance squad member from the team. It makes no sense. The VS fits better than anyone from ME2, whether you are fond of them or not. I'm not fond of Miranda, but at least I can recognize that she should have been in the squad.

[o Ventus]

The VS being with the Alliance has nothing to do with it.

Shepard is only back with the Alliance because railroading (ignoring that Hudson himself said we can "role play an anti-Alliance Shepard"). The 2 aren't in any way related.

Regardless, Shepard is a Spectre. He or she has authority over everybody on the ship, including the VS. even if they are Spectres, Shepard is still the CO of the ship.

Who cares if the VS is one of the original romances? What does that have to do with anything?

[L2 Sentinel]

Name one character in the ME2 squad that is objectively a better fit for the ME3 roster than the VS? Ashley and Kaidan were the first squadmembers Shepard meets. Shepard has to sacrifice one of them in order to save the other. Not including the survivor trivializes that decision.

I don't know if you noticed, but in both ME1 and ME3 the first squadmate Shepard gets are part of the Alliance. That isn't an accident. Shepard needs 2 squadmembers to fill he team, and giving him non-Alliance squadmembers before he is put in charge makes no sense.

[o Ventus]

I never said that anybody would be objectively better than anyone. Don't strawman my post. What does Kaidan and Ashley bein the first squadmates Shepard meets have to do with their placement in ME3? Miranda and Jacob were first in ME2, and they have little more than glorified cameos (perhaps not so glorified in Jacob's case).

In this case, Miranda would be a better fit. She actually ties into the arc, with Cerberus. The only reason the VS has any relevance in the plot is because of massive contrivance.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but in ME1 and 3, Shepard is a part of the Alliance. It makes sense in 1, being the introductory chapter. In 3, after witnessing everything Shepard has seen and encountered in regards to the Alliance (with Casey Hudson's own words), it's completely contradictory to force Shepard into their employ. Spectre status makes this more baffling.

How would giving Shepard non-Alliance squadmates in the beginning not "make sense"? Shepard is a Spectre, he or she can bring along whomever he or she wants as long as they adhere to Council law.

[L2 Sentinel]

Shepard is part of the Alliance in 3. Shepard should start with Alliance squadmembers. Changing this is changing the overarching story in ME3. Sure, Shepard could have been a free agent. Shepard could have chosen to stick with Cerberus. But the fact is that didn't happen. That isn't the direction they went. The VS fits the direction they chose.

Shepard didn't start ME3 with any authority. Anderson only reinstated him after the reapers arrived on Earth. Everyone aboard the Normandy at that moment was Alliance. The Normandy is an Alliance vessel, not a gift from the Council. Shepard being a Spectre has no bearing in who he starts with. Him starting with two Alliance squadmembers is appropriate for the story they told.

I was responding to someone that wanted to cut the VS and James Vega for two ME2 squadmembers, and there isn't a single squadmember in ME2 that fits the story that was told better than the VS, not even Miranda.

In ME1 Shepard is Alliance, and the first two squadmembers are also Alliance.
In ME2 Shepard is forced to work with Cerberus, and the first two squadmembers are Cerberus.
In ME3 Shepard is Alliance again (like it or not), what should the first two squadmembers be?

Modifié par Rauhel, 20 février 2013 - 02:15 .

[L2 Sentinel]

All I'm saying is the VS is one of the last people that should have been cut in order to make room for ME2 characters for the sake of having ME2 characters. For all the reasons I listed above, and as Paralenko pointed out, because they are pretty much the only ones with unresolved issues by the end of ME2. Yes, it's not fair that Miranda wasn't included, but it would have been even more unfair to the VS if they were cut.

[txgoldrush]

Neria Rose wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

This is why KOTOR II fully restored is VASTLY superior to Bioware's first KOTOR. In KOTOR II, yes, you can conversate with the characters, but they develop because of the plot, not because you talked to them three times and run a minor errand for them. Hell in KOTOR II, you PLAY as your squadmates and HK47 actually determines the ending of the game. In KOTOR, they play very little role in the actual plot outside Bastila and Carth.

Warning, my opinion follows: I loved KoTOR and despised KoTOR 2. Every time Bao-dur opened his mouth I wanted to punch him in the throat to get him to shut up. Kreia, Hanharr, and Visas Marr all bored me to tears. And taking that long to get my ship back was insanely irritating. The story was all over the place, was not particularly interesting, and trying to get the Exile involved with Atton was an exercise in futility. The only good parts were HK-47, G0-T0, Canderous, and pazaak.. and 3 of those 4 existed in KoTOR.

Oh, and I am loath to play a character aside from the main PC. Breaks immersion for me.

You did not play the full game than...everybody knows that the original version was all over the place because it was rushed. The finished version adds so much to the characters and actually connects the plot a lot better.

Kreia is the best KOTOR/TOR era character period.

Far better than whiny Carth and the contrived way that Bastila turns to the dark side for light side players. I wonder why the influence system was put into place.....

[WoolyJoe]

Was not a factor/did not apply to personal experience of ME3.

[78stonewobble]

Hmm not a conscious factor I think for me.

Me2 felt like it had a bit too many squadmates, but after that me3 feels like it has too few.

Between 8-10 would probably have been right for me.

[Hulluliini]

I always tend to choose James and Liara because their powers are the most useful, even though I'm so bored with James. EDI dies too easily, so does Tali and she doesn't have very useful powers. Javik has useless powers. Kaidan would be useful but I only have one playthrough where he lives And Ashley isn't that useful.

So it's kinda blah to take the same people everywhere with each playthrough. Not that they talk that much anyway.

[Caihn]

Rauhel wrote...

I was responding to someone that wanted to cut the VS and James Vega for two ME2 squadmembers, and there isn't a single squadmember in ME2 that fits the story that was told better than the VS, not even Miranda.

The VS fits better during the first part of the game.
But after the coup Shepard could easily decide to replace him/her. And Miranda would be my first choice.

Modifié par Yannkee, 20 février 2013 - 09:59 .

[Lyria]

There should've been a krogan party member.
The Normandy felt empty wothout a boisterous massive space turtle brandishing a shotgun.

[EnvyTB075]

I didn't mind James so much, hell if his character was introduced in a less ham-fisted manner and so obviously geared towards ME3's target market (i.e newcomers) i think a lot more people would have accepted him as his own character.

Then again thats not his characters fault per se, rather ME3 as a whole.

As for the rest? Javik and Garrus were THE go to squaddies for me, i didn't take anyone else unless the game forced me to, which is pretty ****ty considering one of them was DLC. Liara is boring as ****, Ashley can't stop being annoying and EDI is.....well EDI, shes ****ing useless. Tali is ok from a character perspective, but all her powers were useless in an offensive capability, and her weapon set simply wasn't good enough for my uses.

In my "Kaiden alive" playthrough, he was as useful as James, without the interesting character.

[XqctaX]

i would have liked it if all the squadmembers from first 2 installments made it into the third one.

i was thinking thrueout me3 why did they make the squad smaller,
arent things suppose to me "more" better" fletched out". ohwell.

the biggest dissapointment about squadmemebers in me3. would have to be Aria
becouse the big introduction and setup of her in the comics and then she turned aout to only sit in a sofa..

also the dlc with her didnt make her a perm squaddie or LI or give us omega as hub.

but im sterring oftopic