343 réponses à ce sujet

[KennyAshes]

Wayning_Star wrote...

being APEX is what caused for the strife in the MEU,hence the cycle. The endless contraption of survival. Theoretically, the synth is a way around it by altering the basis of it, evolution via the very existence OF existence. Nature. That thing that controls the needs that 'shape' intelligence so the body can survive to contain it. Simple in the complication of construction.

Actually not 100% valid. The Leviathans were apex in their time but their 'minions' made synthetics that started warring against their creators. To avoid this the Leviathans created the AI that became the Catalyst. What caused the cycles is uncontrolled thrallraces that created synthetics to help them and the reaction of the Leviathans on that. Instead of building a 'space-police' they started the cycles. Not out of thrive to stay apex, but out of a slight miscalculation. If i may name it that. 

[dorktainian]

FIN-Olmi wrote...

 Count me in!  We destroy them or they destroy us.

My Shepard's quest has been to destroy the reapears since Eden Prime and I will not let my Shepards turn into the illusive man2.0 or Saren2.0

   

Saren favored Synthesis
TIM favored Control
Shepard favors Destroy.  
  

we are your salvation through destruction?  so you are going to save me by destroying me?  or am i going to save you by destroying you?  Wouldnt that be a twist?

Modifié par dorktainian, 19 février 2013 - 02:58 .

[Ieldra]

Obadiah wrote...

jtav wrote...

Obadiah wrote...
I think it does take those rights away from them. Society takes away peoples rights all the time for breaking laws, and the Reapers have most certainly broken those.

Sure we do, but the right being spoken of was the right to be considered valid life. If they are, then it can't be taken away by anything they do. So the question becomes: can we contain them without killing them?

That's an interesting way of putting it.

First, I don't think the action of "containment" necessarily follows from considering something a valid from of life.

Second, I still don't see why that right can't be taken away. if it is a right, can you not conceive of an action that could abdicate that right? Is the mass killing of all advanced sientient organic and artificial life for 37 million plus years not enough to abdicate that right? I think at the decision chamber, realistically, we're at a point where the Reaper's rights aren't really the over-riding principle to be considered.

Well, yes. Destroying the Reapers can be seen as justifiable. But the gleeful attitude I see from most Destroyers is not appropriate (and it's a significant factor putting me off Destroy, as if there already weren't enough of those). I can understand the opinion "I can see no other way out of this without unconscionable risk". However, seeing the necessity, I would nonetheless regret what I'd have to do. You are destroying the living history of a billion years of civilization in the galaxy. It is an unimaginable loss.

I find no fault in taking the action, necessarily. I do, however, find fault in the attitude of many of its supporters.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 février 2013 - 03:00 .

[ruggly]

Ieldra2 wrote...
snip

You are destroying the living history of a billion years of civilization in the galaxy. It is an unimaginable loss.

I find no fault in taking the action, necessarily. I do, however, find fault in the attitude of many of its supporters.

I have to wonder, if the goop in the reapers is nothing more than data really, would we not be able to take samples and then somehow read that data?  Or would the goop dry up as soon as they died. 

And I hope I'm not one of "those."

[dorktainian]

so you would let them carry on destroying entire civilisations because your conscience hopes there is something left inside the reaper which might vindicate their campaign of universal genocide?

Everything that ever was has been lost because of the reapers.  the only things that survive do so because the reapers want it.  Sometimes a huge killing machine is just a huge killing machine.

Modifié par dorktainian, 19 février 2013 - 03:06 .

[Obadiah]

Ieldra2 wrote...
...
Well, yes. Destroying the Reapers can be seen as justifiable. But the gleeful attitude I see from most Destroyers is not appropriate (and it's a significant factor putting me off Destroy, as if there already weren't enough of those). I can understand the opinion "I can see no other way out of this without unconscionable risk". However, seeing the necessity, I would nonetheless regret what I'd have to do. You are destroying the living history of a billion years of civilization in the galaxy. It is an unimaginable loss.

I find no fault in taking the action, necessarily. I do, however, find fault in the attitude of many of its supporters.

Agreed. Not sure about "most" tho. In this thread maybe, but its a year after the game's release.

Modifié par Obadiah, 19 février 2013 - 03:13 .

[FOX216BC]

I choose destroy because most control and synthesis explanations envolve Head-canons.

Modifié par FOX216BC, 19 février 2013 - 03:12 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Hehe....isn't this proof of my hypothesis that some Destroyers are stuck in an us vs. them mentality. Not that I think it's not an understandable stance, but it's most emphatically not the only imaginable one, neither in this conflict nor anywhere else.

.....................nope.

If anyone's stuck in the us vs them mentality, it's the Reapers themselves.

Time and time again they've told us we are insignificant, our actions meaningless and futile, that we are nothing before them, that our destruction is necessary and inevitable.

They've proven to be remorseless, emotionless, brutal, relentless.  They've butched billions of innocent living beings, exterminated thousands of races and wiped out countless civilisations over the course of millenia.

DO NOT FORGET THIS FACT.

The REAPERS are the aggressors.  The REAPERS are the ones who refuse to negotiate.  The REAPERS are the ones who perpetrate the cycle of extinction and unless they are removed from the equation, they will inevitably be the ones who end it.

Now, you can empathise with the Catalyst if you want, you can listen to it's (inhuman) arguments, accept it's (disingenuous) assertations and agree with it's (flawed) logic if you wish, but TWO MINUTES of nonsensical platitudes and vague assurances are not enough to convince me that everything we know about the Reapers is a lie.

The Reapers have told us from day one:  "YOUR DESTRUCTION IS INEVITABLE"

They kill indiscriminately - soldier, civilian, man, woman, child, baby.  They care nothing for anything but their own motives, their own goals.  And they are clever enough and manipulative enough to persuade people to trust them, to accept them, to believe in them.  Just like you're doing right now.

They turn organic races against each other, and that's why they have always - ALWAYS - won.

We can't trust them.  We can't allow them to influence us.  We can't let them sway our resolve.

We FIGHT.  Or we DIE.

By their very nature, they've given us no other choice.

[BleedingUranium]

Where's the evidence that the goo inside Reapers is anything more than goo? Evidence that doesn't come from the Reapers' own mouths, I mean.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 19 février 2013 - 03:20 .

[ElSuperGecko]

BleedingUranium wrote...
Where's the evidence that the goo inside Reapers is anything more than goo? Evidence that doesn't come from the Reapers' own mouths, I mean.

Exactly.  We don't know if the genetic goo is any more than ReaperChow ™.

ReaperChow ™ - it's organic fuel for Reapers!

Show me a clear, in-game example of an individual that has been processed into a Reaper being reverted back to it's original race and civilisation's form, or a clear in-game example that shows the individual personalites and cultures from a harvested species are retained and persist within the Reaper shell and I'll happily accept this argument as something other than the airy-fairy, self-serving hopeful headcanon it clearly is.

[Wayning_Star]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Where's the evidence that the goo inside Reapers is anything more than goo? Evidence that doesn't come from the Reapers' own mouths, I mean.

we have to admit to obvious authority, even if that authority is adversarial. If I remember correctly, the information about that, or some of it comes from allies/Vi of prothean technology. Then Leviathan exposes it even further. All to become kind of 'common knowlege'. Reaperships are ships containing the reminant beings of the preceding cycles as their thinking apperatus, or brains. How it's done isn't really explained at all. Pobably part of the reason the OP is so miffed about mysticism in the MEU, being confused with factual representaion.

I'm curious, what do you think that 'goo' could be? I think it's some representation of electrolytes and cell tissue altered and incorporated for use as/for synapsis.

[Sky651]

In the words of Javik: "Do not waver; victory is never won without difficult choices... but I know you will see this through for all of us, no matter the cost... they will know that this was the day the Reapers were no more, and that you, were their conqueror."

[Wayning_Star]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...
Where's the evidence that the goo inside Reapers is anything more than goo? Evidence that doesn't come from the Reapers' own mouths, I mean.

Exactly.  We don't know if the genetic goo is any more than ReaperChow ™.

ReaperChow ™ - it's organic fuel for Reapers!

Show me a clear, in-game example of an individual that has been processed into a Reaper being reverted back to it's original race and civilisation's form, or a clear in-game example that shows the individual personalites and cultures from a harvested species are retained and persist within the Reaper shell and I'll happily accept this argument as something other than the airy-fairy, self-serving hopeful headcanon it clearly is.

predisposition   Isn't a form of arguement,especially a winning form..lol (except mine!!

[Wayning_Star]

Sky651 wrote...

In the words of Javik: "Do not waver; victory is never won without difficult choices... but I know you will see this through for all of us, no matter the cost... they will know that this was the day the Reapers were no more, and that you, were their conqueror."

Javik IS a conqueror..little more than another poor aspect of reaperdom. They enslaved entire societies to further their empire. If you didn't join them they shunned you as with the rest of the galaxy for fear of retaliation. It was Javik way or the no way scenerio.

(I suspect you an he would be common and automatic enemies. His only tie to Shep is the reaper threat, he serves himself, not unlike the Leviathan...)

[Obadiah]

@ElSuperGecko
I think you just justified the "us vs them" mentality.

[Sky651]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Sky651 wrote...

In the words of Javik: "Do not waver; victory is never won without difficult choices... but I know you will see this through for all of us, no matter the cost... they will know that this was the day the Reapers were no more, and that you, were their conqueror."

Javik IS a conqueror..little more than another poor aspect of reaperdom. They enslaved entire societies to further their empire. If you didn't join them they shunned you as with the rest of the galaxy for fear of retaliation. It was Javik way or the no way scenerio.

(I suspect you an he would be common and automatic enemies. His only tie to Shep is the reaper threat, he serves himself, not unlike the Leviathan...)

You dont think his line about dificult choices is forshadowing ?  That we should be careful not to waver and see this through.....

[Wayning_Star]

We FIGHT.  Or we DIE.

By their very nature, they've given us no other choice.

I'm not shaping MY nature to fit someone elses, that'd make mine theirs..

Altering mother nature is another thing.. I'd do that to reset the MEU.

[Wayning_Star]

Sky651 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Sky651 wrote...

In the words of Javik: "Do not waver; victory is never won without difficult choices... but I know you will see this through for all of us, no matter the cost... they will know that this was the day the Reapers were no more, and that you, were their conqueror."

Javik IS a conqueror..little more than another poor aspect of reaperdom. They enslaved entire societies to further their empire. If you didn't join them they shunned you as with the rest of the galaxy for fear of retaliation. It was Javik way or the no way scenerio.

(I suspect you an he would be common and automatic enemies. His only tie to Shep is the reaper threat, he serves himself, not unlike the Leviathan...)

You dont think his line about dificult choices is forshadowing ?  That we should be careful not to waver and see this through.....

I think its OK to respect Javik for what/who he was and still is, but not follow explicitly his charter. That may be the same as to be enthralled by Javik, subservant to his ego problems..lol

[ElSuperGecko]

Wayning_Star wrote...
I'm not shaping MY nature to fit someone elses, that'd make mine theirs..

You do it all the time.  Either that, or you're a sociopath.

Altering mother nature is another thing.. I'd do that to reset the MEU.

.....and a sociopath with a messiah complex at that.  You're really winning the argument now, Wayning_Star.

[Wayning_Star]

FOX216BC wrote...

I choose destroy because most control and synthesis explanations envolve Head-canons.

wow, so that's the gizmo they found on mars...glad it's not loaded,eh?

[jtav]

Sky651 wrote...


You dont think his line about dificult choices is forshadowing ?  That we should be careful not to waver and see this through.....

Control and Synthesis are difficult. Giving up your life isn't easy. I'd call Control something like hell.

[Sky651]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Sky651 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Sky651 wrote...

In the words of Javik: "Do not waver; victory is never won without difficult choices... but I know you will see this through for all of us, no matter the cost... they will know that this was the day the Reapers were no more, and that you, were their conqueror."

Javik IS a conqueror..little more than another poor aspect of reaperdom. They enslaved entire societies to further their empire. If you didn't join them they shunned you as with the rest of the galaxy for fear of retaliation. It was Javik way or the no way scenerio.

(I suspect you an he would be common and automatic enemies. His only tie to Shep is the reaper threat, he serves himself, not unlike the Leviathan...)

You dont think his line about dificult choices is forshadowing ?  That we should be careful not to waver and see this through.....

I think its OK to respect Javik for what/who he was and still is, but not follow explicitly his charter. That may be the same as to be enthralled by Javik, subservant to his ego problems..lol

Ok I am not saying that we should follow his charter or be subserviant to him.  I am saying that the daialog is provided there intentionaly by the writers to forshadow / warn us of what lies ahead

[Wayning_Star]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
I'm not shaping MY nature to fit someone elses, that'd make mine theirs..

You do it all the time.  Either that, or you're a sociopath.

Altering mother nature is another thing.. I'd do that to reset the MEU.

.....and a sociopath with a messiah complex at that.  You're really winning the argument now, Wayning_Star.

now we get the  mysticism the OP is addressing..I wonder where that all comes from

remember to NOT alter nature when you drive your car today, turn on that light and other technobabblish stuff like that..lol Don't want to end up a sociopath or resurrected messiah Shep now would we..lol

[Restrider]

I am doing a survey on the first playthrough choice, your age and sex.

Here is the link.

[Wayning_Star]

Restrider wrote...

I am doing a survey on the first playthrough choice, your age and sex.

Here is the link.

how many 0's can we put in?