343 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
What's your evidence for the bolded part?

Would YOU be happy in a universe where your steak had wires and LED's in it?

If I had wires and LEDs in myself too.... why not?

I'm supposed to be horrified or something by becoming part-machine, right?

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 février 2013 - 10:24 .

[dorktainian]

AlanC9 wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
What's your evidence for the bolded part?

Would YOU be happy in a universe where your steak had wires and LED's in it?

If I had wires and LEDs in myself too.... why not?

I'm supposed to be horrified or something by becoming part-machine, right?

becoming part machine would be the apex of our evolution...... into walking toasters.  something useful..  like a bit of toast.  one arm as a toaster the other as a coffee maker....sorted.

[BleedingUranium]

Obadiah wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

There is no true evil in real life, but there is in some fiction, like the Reapers.

The Reapers aren't evil though.

And you were convinced of that by who? Right, the Reapers themselves.

I'm pretty sure that if the Catalyst had appeared as a slobbering demon and spoken its current lines with Sovereign's awesome voice, this would in no way be a point of contention.

Exactly!

[ElSuperGecko]

AlanC9 wrote...
If I had wires and LEDs in myself too.... why not?

I'm supposed to be horrified or something by becoming part-machine, right?

I find myself sorely lacking an EDI emoticon.

[dorktainian]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

There is no true evil in real life, but there is in some fiction, like the Reapers.

The Reapers aren't evil though.

And you were convinced of that by who? Right, the Reapers themselves.

I'm pretty sure that if the Catalyst had appeared as a slobbering demon and spoken its current lines with Sovereign's awesome voice, this would in no way be a point of contention.

Exactly!

but he did!!!  

[TJBartlemus]

Obadiah wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

There is no true evil in real life, but there is in some fiction, like the Reapers.

The Reapers aren't evil though.

And you were convinced of that by who? Right, the Reapers themselves.

I'm pretty sure that if the Catalyst had appeared as a slobbering demon and spoken its current lines with Sovereign's awesome voice, this would in no way be a point of contention.

You know what is funny about that? Is that someone from BioWare in a interview (I think it was the Final Hours App) said something similar to that.

Do you think if it took it's true form (a reaper) many people would trust it?  

[Argolas]

jtav wrote...

Argolas wrote...

If that wasn't enough, what else do the Reapers have to do until everyone considers them the bad guys?

Killing Garrus?

It doesn't matter. If the Reapers are a valid lifeform (and they clearly are in universe) then we have an obligation to use the least lethal means we have to contain the threat.

I know I'm a little late to respond to this and I have no idea how the discussion went on, but I disagree with you on that. I made a poll about this once, by the way, although it doesn't say much, at least 66 people on BSN disagree with you, so it's not that "clearly".

[BleedingUranium]

Argolas wrote...

I know I'm a little late to respond to this and I have no idea how the discussion went on, but I disagree with you on that. I made a poll about this once, by the way, although it doesn't say much, at least 66 people on BSN disagree with you, so it's not that "clearly".

Oh look, Destroy totally overshadows everything else. Again.

[TheRealJayDee]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Oh look, Destroy totally overshadows everything else. Again.

Duh! That's because the majority of gamers are bloodthirsty simpletons without any form of imagination or empathy.

You didn't know?! 

[Hadeedak]

Well, everyone likes the big simple button that says "Reapers go off". Even if you activate the button by shooting it.

[Argolas]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Argolas wrote...

I know I'm a little late to respond to this and I have no idea how the discussion went on, but I disagree with you on that. I made a poll about this once, by the way, although it doesn't say much, at least 66 people on BSN disagree with you, so it's not that "clearly".

Oh look, Destroy totally overshadows everything else. Again.

The poll was meant to be about whether the Reapers are creatures or tools. And I see that the majority of people doesn't grant the Reapers the quality of being a valid life form like jtav claimed. I also would like to draw conclusions like "The majority of Destroy supporters considers the Reapers tools while Control and Synthesis supporters tend to consider them creatures" but I unfortunatly don't have enough votes for that. The only save thing to say yet is that BSN does not largely agree if the Reapers are creatures or tools. Destroy always wins of course, but that wasn't the point of my poll, I knew that before.

[Bad King]

A far more effective way of making them pay would be to enslave them for eternity.

[Argolas]

Bad King wrote...

A far more effective way of making them pay would be to enslave them for eternity.

The "Catalyst" loses control of the Reapers twice: the Leviathans can take over single Reapers, and the crucible even snatched the whole thing out of its hands when you choose Control. I won't take any chances just assuming that Shepard AI, even if it only does good things, always stays in control.

[Obadiah]

Control and Destroy are almost the exact same options Shepard is faced with at Heretic Station.

Modifié par Obadiah, 20 février 2013 - 12:00 .

[o Ventus]

jtav wrote...

It doesn't matter. If the Reapers are a valid lifeform (and they clearly are in universe) then we have an obligation to use the least lethal means we have to contain the threat.

And exactly what makes it so "clear" that the Reapers are a forms of life?

Last I checked, genetic slurpee =\\= life, otherwise the slurpee I drank earlier was life, and I am a murderer.

[ElSuperGecko]

Argolas wrote...
The "Catalyst" loses control of the Reapers twice: the Leviathans can take over single Reapers, and the crucible even snatched the whole thing out of its hands when you choose Control. I won't take any chances just assuming that Shepard AI, even if it only does good things, always stays in control.

Am I the only one concerned at the idea of an AI with human attributes wielding that amount of power for all time?

The Catalyst survived millennia precisely because it was an emotionless and unfeeling AI.

But an AI with a distinctly human perspective - alone for all eternity, with only the whispers of the Reapers for company...

...that's a recipe for insanity, right there.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 20 février 2013 - 12:11 .

[BleedingUranium]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Am I the only one concerned at the idea of an AI with human attributes wielding that amount of power for all time?

The Catalyst survived millennia precisely because it was an emotionless and unfeeling AI.

But an AI with a distinctly human perspective - alone for all eternity, with only the whispers of the Reapers for company...

...that's a recipe for insanity, right there.

A child locked in a closet until they're sixteen isn't going to be sane.

That's why EDI developed properly while most AIs don't. They have to be raised just like organic children do.

[BansheeOwnage]

BleedingUranium wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Am I the only one concerned at the idea of an AI with human attributes wielding that amount of power for all time?

The Catalyst survived millennia precisely because it was an emotionless and unfeeling AI.

But an AI with a distinctly human perspective - alone for all eternity, with only the whispers of the Reapers for company...

...that's a recipe for insanity, right there.

A child locked in a closet until they're sixteen isn't going to be sane.

That's why EDI developed properly while most AIs don't. They have to be raised just like organic children do.

An interesting analogy. EDI is a lot different than the Guardian, and this is a key difference. Cause, meet effect.

[Sc2mashimaro]

BleedingUranium wrote...

A child locked in a closet until they're sixteen isn't going to be sane.

That's why EDI developed properly while most AIs don't. They have to be raised just like organic children do.

Nature vs. Nurture argument. Although, it could be argued that it is the mix that is essential. For example, the Geth did not exactly have the best "childhood" in this context. Their parents rejected and attempted to massacre them. Somehow, they seem to have come around alright in the end. Perhaps there is some nature in the program at work. EDI too, she was the AI on LUNA and her awakening to consciousness was not exactly bloodless. But when she was rebooted with Shephard and Joker, she seemed to do alright. The Reapers, on the other hand, have a long standing pattern of violence - thus the need to destroy them.

But, certainly, AIs do not seem to be time bombs unless we treat them foolishly or give them foolish purpose. I love Asimov's writings on the subject and I tend to agree with much of his thought process on it. AIs are dangerous because we don't take the time to understand the differences between them and ourselves. But we don't need synthesis to do that.