284 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I'm not going to be able to find video for that exchange... if I'm remembering right, it's two salarians standing near the elevator around where you speak to Padok Wiks, before going down into the lab itself to meet Mordin. One of them suggests something which is a violation of protocol and the other delves into the Dalatrass' punishment for that.

I just have this burning memory from LotSB of a fellow bound to a chair being torched alive and exploding not thirty feet from Wrex's throne...

. I remember that log.  There's also the one of a salarian being thrown to the varren.  Too bad Urdont Torsk never appeared again.

Modifié par Steelcan, 19 février 2013 - 02:19 .

[MrFob]

What I don't get about the whole genophage story (and maybe I am missing something since I haven't played the game in a while) is the following:
In ME2, Mordin makes it very clear that the genophage does not render the Krogan extinct, despite them thinking so. It reduces their rate fo reproduction to prevent a population explosion after their environment has changed due to technological advances and integration into the galactic community. Right? That's what he says in ME2 and that's why we had so many discussions about Mordin's loyalty mission after ME2 came out.
So why the hell does he (or his replacement) suddenly see the need to create a "cure" now? I thought everything was fine from Mordin's perspective. Is there a reason given for why in ME3 this is suddenly a "live or die" issue for the Krogan again?
I mean, I do understand that it's a cultural problem for the Krogan and that we can debate the morals of the whole issue in the first place but especially with Wrex in charge, who seems to have found a way to deal with the cultural implications, I just never got why suddenly Mordin of all people had to make a cure. Mazbe I missed it, that's entirely possible.
What does this have to do with the topic? It would have been the most valid point the Dalatrass could have made, maybe not to the Krogan but at least towards Shepard. Since the Salarians were the ones to throw the Krogan off their evolutionary path in the first place, they now try everything to stabilize (and therefore protect) their role in an interstellar community. It may be ugly but from a certain perspective, it can be seen as the best option available at this point.

[DeinonSlayer]

MrFob wrote...

What I don't get about the whole genophage story (and maybe I am missing something since I haven't played the game in a while) is the following:
In ME2, Mordin makes it very clear that the genophage does not render the Krogan extinct, despite them thinking so. It reduces their rate fo reproduction to prevent a population explosion after their environment has changed due to technological advances and integration into the galactic community. Right? That's what he says in ME2 and that's why we had so many discussions about Mordin's loyalty mission after ME2 came out.
So why the hell does he (or his replacement) suddenly see the need to create a "cure" now? I thought everything was fine from Mordin's perspective. Is there a reason given for why in ME3 this is suddenly a "live or die" issue for the Krogan again?
I mean, I do understand that it's a cultural problem for the Krogan and that we can debate the morals of the whole issue in the first place but especially with Wrex in charge, who seems to have found a way to deal with the cultural implications, I just never got why suddenly Mordin of all people had to make a cure. Mazbe I missed it, that's entirely possible.
What does this have to do with the topic? It would have been the most valid point the Dalatrass could have made, maybe not to the Krogan but at least towards Shepard. Since the Salarians were the ones to throw the Krogan off their evolutionary path in the first place, they now try everything to stabilize (and therefore protect) their role in an interstellar community. It may be ugly but from a certain perspective, it can be seen as the best option available at this point.

Because [insert Krogan leader here] holds the war effort hostage unless it's done. It's understandable, really - the Salarians have the means, the Reapers provided the opportunity by making the galaxy need the Krogan, and they certainly have the motive to do so. It's not like the Krogan are the only species to take advantage of the chaos.

[Steelcan]

At first Mordin rationalizes it, He says that genophage was the right call at the time, but new events require course correction. If you press on it, he reveals to harbor extreme regret over it. Continuing that train from ME2.

[Aaleel]

No. Curing, ending or otherwise stopping the genophage is one of the few things in the game all my Shepard's have agreed on across the board.

[iOnlySignIn]

It has nothing to do with the morality concerning the genophage.

It has everything to do with the Salarians being a much bigger potential threat to Humanity than the Krogans.

[MrFob]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Because [insert Krogan leader here] holds the war effort hostage unless it's done. It's understandable, really - the Salarians have the means, the Reapers provided the opportunity by making the galaxy need the Krogan, and they certainly have the motive to do so. It's not like the Krogan are the only species to take advantage of the chaos.

IIRC, Wrex/Wreav brings up the whole issue because he got the footage and the information from the facility from Mordin in the first place. If there were no effort to make a cure first, this would never be an issue.

Steelcan wrote...

At first Mordin rationalizes it, He says
that genophage was the right call at the time, but new events require
course correction. If you press on it, he reveals to harbor extreme
regret over it. Continuing that train from ME2.

IIRC that depends on how your Shepard interacts with Mordin in ME2. I remember that in ME3, for my Shep this came out of nowhere.

Modifié par MrFob, 19 février 2013 - 02:31 .

[Steelcan]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

It has nothing to do with the morality concerning the genophage.

It has everything to do with the Salarians being a much bigger potential threat to Humanity than the Krogans.

.  Hahahahahahahahahaha.  That's a good one.  Now tell me the one about Kai Leng being a serious threat.

[DWH1982]

Based on what they're considering for the Yahg, it certainly seems they haven't learned their lesson.

At least the krogan uplift was in response to a threat. The Yahg uplift is just because it will "expand salarian influence" (which makes no sense to me... but whatever).

Modifié par DWH1982, 19 février 2013 - 02:30 .

[Steelcan]

MrFob wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Because [insert Krogan leader here] holds the war effort hostage unless it's done. It's understandable, really - the Salarians have the means, the Reapers provided the opportunity by making the galaxy need the Krogan, and they certainly have the motive to do so. It's not like the Krogan are the only species to take advantage of the chaos.

IIRC, Wrex/Wreav brings up the whole issue because he got the footage and the information from the facility from Mordin in the first place. If there were no effort to make a cure first, this would never be an issue.

. The Krogan would always want a cure.

[iOnlySignIn]

Steelcan wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

It has nothing to do with the morality concerning the genophage.

It has everything to do with the Salarians being a much bigger potential threat to Humanity than the Krogans.

.  Hahahahahahahahahaha.  That's a good one.  Now tell me the one about Kai Leng being a serious threat.

Your complacency is most telling.

[Steelcan]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

It has nothing to do with the morality concerning the genophage.

It has everything to do with the Salarians being a much bigger potential threat to Humanity than the Krogans.

.  Hahahahahahahahahaha.  That's a good one.  Now tell me the one about Kai Leng being a serious threat.

Your complacency is most telling.

. Not only do the Salarians have a smaller military than the Turians, who humanity beat, they also have little interest in fighting humanity.  Compare that to the Krogan who could overrun the galaxy in a few generations.

[DeinonSlayer]

DWH1982 wrote...

Based on what they're considering for the Yahg, it certainly seems they haven't learned their lesson.

At least the krogan uplift was in response to a threat. The Yahg uplift is just because it will "expand salarian influence" (which makes no sense to me... but whatever).

Yeah... what was that about unleashing genetically-engineered varren on "hostile populations?"

And this is a government-sanctioned development by a council race, passing judgement on the rest of the galaxy?

The Alliance and the Council have pulled so much crap... how I wish we could call them out for more of it.

[Whybother]

Even though I usually went with "cure the genophage" for the war assets since Wrex and Eve were alive - I unfortunately agree with the Dalatrass in that it shouldn't be cured, but not for the reasons she gives.

The idea that two leaders (one of whom is pretty old even for a Krogan) are somehow going to reshape the Krogan species into a peaceful one with *good population control* is pretty absurd. There's no reason to think they were poorly led up until their nuclear holocaust, or the Krogan Rebellions, or even the current condition where it is strongly implied that many Krogan live for war. Wrex realizes the path the Krogan are on, as does Eve, and I respect that. I just think they are outnumbered, and no amount of head-butting by Wrex is going to change that.

Curing the genophage is the same short-sighted thinking that got the Krogan uplifted to fight the Rachni.

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

Based on what they're considering for the Yahg, it certainly seems they haven't learned their lesson.

At least the krogan uplift was in response to a threat. The Yahg uplift is just because it will "expand salarian influence" (which makes no sense to me... but whatever).

Yeah... what was that about unleashing genetically-engineered varren on "hostile populations?"

And this is a government-sanctioned development by a council race, passing judgement on the rest of the galaxy?

The Alliance and the Council have pulled so much crap... how I wish we could call them out for more of it.

. I wonder if the STG has skeletons comparable to Cerberus pre-ME3

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

Based on what they're considering for the Yahg, it certainly seems they haven't learned their lesson.

At least the krogan uplift was in response to a threat. The Yahg uplift is just because it will "expand salarian influence" (which makes no sense to me... but whatever).

Yeah... what was that about unleashing genetically-engineered varren on "hostile populations?"

And this is a government-sanctioned development by a council race, passing judgement on the rest of the galaxy?

The Alliance and the Council have pulled so much crap... how I wish we could call them out for more of it.

. I wonder if the STG has skeletons comparable to Cerberus pre-ME3

It's safe to guess they do. Think they were uplifting the Yahg to fight the Reapers? Somehow I don't think that would work, particularly if they go with the "caged animal" treatment.

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

. Think they were uplifting the Yahg to fight the Reapers? Somehow I don't think that would work, particularly if they go with the "caged animal" treatment.

. Who would really want to uplift the Yahg?  They are krogan on steroids with the brain of a salarian, and we don't know what their birth rate looks like.  They might even be able to out do the krogan.

Sad that we never really get to see the other species' survivalist groups.

[Cyrax86]

if i remember correctly, because of the genophage their health or their reproduction ability is deteriorating. if you sabotage the cure it prevents it from getting worse and curing the genophage fixes it.

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

. Think they were uplifting the Yahg to fight the Reapers? Somehow I don't think that would work, particularly if they go with the "caged animal" treatment.

. Who would really want to uplift the Yahg?  They are krogan on steroids with the brain of a salarian, and we don't know what their birth rate looks like.  They might even be able to out do the krogan.

Sad that we never really get to see the other species' survivalist groups.

One questions if they need them when they already have their boot on the galaxy's throat.

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

. Think they were uplifting the Yahg to fight the Reapers? Somehow I don't think that would work, particularly if they go with the "caged animal" treatment.

. Who would really want to uplift the Yahg?  They are krogan on steroids with the brain of a salarian, and we don't know what their birth rate looks like.  They might even be able to out do the krogan.

Sad that we never really get to see the other species' survivalist groups.

One questions if they need them when they already have their boot on the galaxy's throat.

. For the Asari, hoarding Prothean tech probably isn't enough.

[MrFob]

Steelcan wrote...
. The Krogan would always want a cure.

Agreed but at least in Werx's case, I doubt he'd turn on you (and everyone else) in the way he did in ME3 without a tangable reason. Remember, if it were not for that footage, the Krogan would still be under the impression that there simply is no cure.
In any case, it's not really the point. The point is that The Dalatrass missed a chance to make a real argument there (and that IMO, the whole thing doesn't make that much sense).

[DWH1982]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

It's safe to guess they do. Think they were uplifting the Yahg to fight the Reapers? Somehow I don't think that would work, particularly if they go with the "caged animal" treatment.

The thing is... You can access a voice log regarding the STG and the Yahg, and they make no mention of the Reapers. If I remember correctly, all they say is that uplifting the Yahg will "help expand salarian influence."

How, exactly, it will help expand salarian influence, I have no idea. It makes no sense, beyond making me feel deeply disturbed by the salarians.

[Steelcan]

MrFob wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
. The Krogan would always want a cure.

Agreed but at least in Werx's case, I doubt he'd turn on you (and everyone else) in the way he did in ME3 without a tangable reason. Remember, if it were not for that footage, the Krogan would still be under the impression that there simply is no cure.
In any case, it's not really the point. The point is that The Dalatrass missed a chance to make a real argument there (and that IMO, the whole thing doesn't make that much sense).

. The reason he turns on yo.  You have manipulated his entire race into dying for their mortal enemies and on top of that you tricked his whole species.

[iOnlySignIn]

Steelcan wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

It has nothing to do with the morality concerning the genophage.

It has everything to do with the Salarians being a much bigger potential threat to Humanity than the Krogans.

.  Hahahahahahahahahaha.  That's a good one.  Now tell me the one about Kai Leng being a serious threat.

Your complacency is most telling.

. Not only do the Salarians have a smaller military than the Turians, who humanity beat, they also have little interest in fighting humanity.  Compare that to the Krogan who could overrun the galaxy in a few generations.

You really know nothing about the Salarians do you. 

[Steelcan]

DWH1982 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

It's safe to guess they do. Think they were uplifting the Yahg to fight the Reapers? Somehow I don't think that would work, particularly if they go with the "caged animal" treatment.

The thing is... You can access a voice log regarding the STG and the Yahg, and they make no mention of the Reapers. If I remember correctly, all they say is that uplifting the Yahg will "help expand salarian influence."

How, exactly, it will help expand salarian influence, I have no idea. It makes no sense, beyond making me feel deeply disturbed by the salarians.

. Well thinking long term, uplifting the Yahg would out the Yahg in a postion close with the Salarian Union.  They'd likely become close trading partners, military allies, etc...