284 réponses à ce sujet

[fallen_acolyte]

I would agreed with her if reave was in charge, but because I know wrex held the crown, nothing she could have said would change my mind.

[Steelcan]

iOnlySignIn wrote...
You really know nothing about the Salarians do you. 

. They have fewer dreadnoughts than the Asari or Turians.  They rely heavily on stealth and intelligence and are not really capable of winning an evenly matched war.  Their military doctrine demands they fight only after they have won.  They would not stand a chance in a knock down guerrilla fight like the Turians or humans would.  

They hit hard and fast and cripple their enemies, but when things drag out, Rachni wars, Krogan rebellions, they need help.  

[DWH1982]

Steelcan wrote...


[Well thinking long term, uplifting the Yahg would out the Yahg in a postion close with the Salarian Union.  They'd likely become close trading partners, military allies, etc...

Thinking long term, and knowing the Yahg, I'd say the Yahg would be just as likely to decide that salarians are an important source of nutrition. And then attack the Salarian Union, so they can make sure they have ample supplies of fried salarian with side dishes of salarian egg caviar.

[DeinonSlayer]

fallen_acolyte wrote...

I would agreed with her if reave was in charge, but because I know wrex held the crown, nothing she could have said would change my mind.

Putting an awful lot of faith in one person whose rule is regularly challenged by others less... noble.

[Steelcan]

DWH1982 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...


[Well thinking long term, uplifting the Yahg would out the Yahg in a postion close with the Salarian Union.  They'd likely become close trading partners, military allies, etc...

Thinking long term, and knowing the Yahg, I'd say the Yahg would be just as likely to decide that salarians are an important source of nutrition. And then attack the Salarian Union, so they can make sure they have ample supplies of fried salarian with side dishes of salarian egg caviar.

. I never said they were smart about it.

[MrFob]

Steelcan wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
. The Krogan would always want a cure.

Agreed but at least in Werx's case, I doubt he'd turn on you (and everyone else) in the way he did in ME3 without a tangable reason. Remember, if it were not for that footage, the Krogan would still be under the impression that there simply is no cure.
In any case, it's not really the point. The point is that The Dalatrass missed a chance to make a real argument there (and that IMO, the whole thing doesn't make that much sense).

. The reason he turns on yo.  You have manipulated his entire race into dying for their mortal enemies and on top of that you tricked his whole species.

No, Shepard did not (and if you are talking about possible implications from Moridn's mission in ME2, Wrex knows nothing about that). By the time I saw Wrex last (in ME2) we were best friends and nothing happened in the meantime to change that, apart from that thing with Mordin's new cure of course, which is exactly what I am contesting.
Also, in the past, Wrex did recognize the reapers as a thread and even fought his own kind to stop them. Why should he change his mind if he did not have new information?

[Vubica]

nope , im with the paragon shep on this one 1000%, since i heard about the genophage, its playing god and nobody has the right to do so, TBH salarians arent antagonised enough considering all the bs they pull... yagh covert uplift? cuz yeah...?

[Steelcan]

[quote]MrFob wrote...

The reason he turns on yo.  You have manipulated his entire race into dying for their mortal enemies and on top of that you tricked his whole species.
[/quote]
No, Shepard did not (and if you are talking about possible implications from Moridn's mission in ME2, Wrex knows nothing about that). By the time I saw Wrex last (in ME2) we were best friends and nothing happened in the meantime to change that, apart from that thing with Mordin's new cure of course, which is exactly what I am contesting.
Also, in the past, Wrex did recognize the reapers as a thread and even fought his own kind to stop them. Why should he change his mind if he did not have new information?
[/quote]. Wrex does know about Maelon though.  He gets kind of pissed in ME3 if you destroyed Maelon's data.  

He changes his mind because he finally has the chance to cure the genophage and save his people.  Shepard takes that away and condemns them to extinction.

[xAmilli0n]

The Dalatrass gives some good reasons, and honestly, I didn't want to cure the genophage. Really wanted to just smack Wrex (I think Wreav would be too dumb to understand) across the head and say "Hey, you don't help, we all die, and a cure wont matter. Help now, and we can move forward with this later."

Just like Shepard can bully the Dalatras, I want to be able to pressure the Krogan's into helping. Since I can't, I guess I'll just have to shoot Mordin, poor guy.

[Whybother]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

fallen_acolyte wrote...

I would agreed with her if reave was in charge, but because I know wrex held the crown, nothing she could have said would change my mind.

Putting an awful lot of faith in one person whose rule is regularly challenged by others less... noble.

And who will not live forever.

[Steelcan]

Whybother wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

fallen_acolyte wrote...

I would agreed with her if reave was in charge, but because I know wrex held the crown, nothing she could have said would change my mind.

Putting an awful lot of faith in one person whose rule is regularly challenged by others less... noble.

And who will not live forever.

. Well Krogan don't die of old age, not that we've seen, and he's unlikely to be killed by a rival.  But I see your pint

[MrFob]

Steelcan wrote...
. Wrex does know about Maelon though.  He gets kind of pissed in ME3 if you destroyed Maelon's data.  

He changes his mind because he finally has the chance to cure the genophage and save his people.  Shepard takes that away and condemns them to extinction.

Yes and Mordin was the one who told Wrex about Maelon.
Otherwise, that is exactly what I have been saying all along (plus that this does not make sense). We are going in circles here.

[Steelcan]

MrFob wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
. Wrex does know about Maelon though.  He gets kind of pissed in ME3 if you destroyed Maelon's data.  

He changes his mind because he finally has the chance to cure the genophage and save his people.  Shepard takes that away and condemns them to extinction.

Yes and Mordin was the one who told Wrex about Maelon.
Otherwise, that is exactly what I have been saying all along (plus that this does not make sense). We are going in circles here.

. No, when you talk to Maelon you find out he approached Wrex, but got turned down., Wrex wasn't willing to do the experiments.

[Liec]

I supported the Dalatrass, she gave valid reasons :/

[MrFob]

Steelcan wrote...
. No, when you talk to Maelon you find out he approached Wrex, but got turned down., Wrex wasn't willing to do the experiments.

True but he didn't get upset back then. You meet him in ME2 after he found that out and he was fine at the time. The only thing that changes his attitude is the new info he gets from Mordin in ME3.

[Kabooooom]

The dalatrass was right- the genophage was the correct course of action. But unfortunately for her I needed the Krogan for the war effort. So I cured it. Would I have cured it otherwise? No.

[Steelcan]

MrFob wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
. No, when you talk to Maelon you find out he approached Wrex, but got turned down., Wrex wasn't willing to do the experiments.

True but he didn't get upset back then. You meet him in ME2 after he found that out and he was fine at the time. The only thing that changes his attitude is the new info he gets from Mordin in ME3.

. Because he didnt know that Maelon succeded 

[dtrain24]

If Wrex is alive, I'll always cure the Genophage. But if Wreav was the leader, I'd sabotage it....I don't trust Wreav.

But on the other hand, I'll never have Wrex killed on any of my pt's, so the Genophage will always be cured.

[The JoeMan]

MrFob wrote...

What I don't get about the whole genophage story (and maybe I am missing something since I haven't played the game in a while) is the following:
In ME2, Mordin makes it very clear that the genophage does not render the Krogan extinct, despite them thinking so. It reduces their rate fo reproduction to prevent a population explosion after their environment has changed due to technological advances and integration into the galactic community. Right? That's what he says in ME2 and that's why we had so many discussions about Mordin's loyalty mission after ME2 came out.
So why the hell does he (or his replacement) suddenly see the need to create a "cure" now? I thought everything was fine from Mordin's perspective. Is there a reason given for why in ME3 this is suddenly a "live or die" issue for the Krogan again?
I mean, I do understand that it's a cultural problem for the Krogan and that we can debate the morals of the whole issue in the first place but especially with Wrex in charge, who seems to have found a way to deal with the cultural implications, I just never got why suddenly Mordin of all people had to make a cure. Mazbe I missed it, that's entirely possible.
What does this have to do with the topic? It would have been the most valid point the Dalatrass could have made, maybe not to the Krogan but at least towards Shepard. Since the Salarians were the ones to throw the Krogan off their evolutionary path in the first place, they now try everything to stabilize (and therefore protect) their role in an interstellar community. It may be ugly but from a certain perspective, it can be seen as the best option available at this point.

I was also really bothered by Mordin's sudden 180 here though it doesn't surprise me based on his writer's (Weekes) stated views on the genophage.  The whole mission would have been much better if the argument to sabotage the cure came from the trusted Mordin.  It could have been an extension of the conversations you had with him during ME2 and given people real pause.  Instead we get the completely unlikeable Dalatrass making purposefully poor arguments so Bioware can push their Paragon = smart, Renegade = dumb agenda.

[Steelcan]

dtrain24 wrote...

If Wrex is alive, I'll always cure the Genophage. But if Wreav was the leader, I'd sabotage it....I don't trust Wreav.

But on the other hand, I'll never have Wrex killed on any of my pt's, so the Genophage will always be cured.

[Volc19]

I would have loved for the Dalatrass to have reasonable arguments, you know, instead of being the spiteful, ignorant hag she was made to be.

Wrex: "My people deserve a cure!"

New!Dalatrass: "The last time an unrestricted krogan population was present in the galactic community, you guys overran us and tried to stamp us out, or have you forgotten? And now you want a reapeat of this in the middle of a Reaper War? Am I crazy, or does this seem like The Rachni Wars 2: The Reckoning?"

Wrex: "We won't help if you don't give us the cure!"

New!Dalatrass: "Do you want me to crouch onto the ground and help you collect your marbles? The goal of this war effort is to save the Galaxy, not repeat our past in a completely asinine manner, likely dooming us all?"

[DeinonSlayer]

The JoeMan wrote...

MrFob wrote...

What I don't get about the whole genophage story (and maybe I am missing something since I haven't played the game in a while) is the following:
In ME2, Mordin makes it very clear that the genophage does not render the Krogan extinct, despite them thinking so. It reduces their rate fo reproduction to prevent a population explosion after their environment has changed due to technological advances and integration into the galactic community. Right? That's what he says in ME2 and that's why we had so many discussions about Mordin's loyalty mission after ME2 came out.
So why the hell does he (or his replacement) suddenly see the need to create a "cure" now? I thought everything was fine from Mordin's perspective. Is there a reason given for why in ME3 this is suddenly a "live or die" issue for the Krogan again?
I mean, I do understand that it's a cultural problem for the Krogan and that we can debate the morals of the whole issue in the first place but especially with Wrex in charge, who seems to have found a way to deal with the cultural implications, I just never got why suddenly Mordin of all people had to make a cure. Mazbe I missed it, that's entirely possible.
What does this have to do with the topic? It would have been the most valid point the Dalatrass could have made, maybe not to the Krogan but at least towards Shepard. Since the Salarians were the ones to throw the Krogan off their evolutionary path in the first place, they now try everything to stabilize (and therefore protect) their role in an interstellar community. It may be ugly but from a certain perspective, it can be seen as the best option available at this point.

I was also really bothered by Mordin's sudden 180 here though it doesn't surprise me based on his writer's (Weekes) stated views on the genophage.  The whole mission would have been much better if the argument to sabotage the cure came from the trusted Mordin.  It could have been an extension of the conversations you had with him during ME2 and given people real pause.  Instead we get the completely unlikeable Dalatrass making purposefully poor arguments so Bioware can push their Paragon = smart, Renegade = dumb agenda.

Same story elsewhere. I knew something was up at the start of the Rannoch arc when Xen made the weak argument for trying to retake the planet. There are better reasons - they were established in ME2; they're in the codex - but no spoken dialogue is committed to them. As with the Krogan, the writers picked their side. Granted, Tuchanka was comparably subtle.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 février 2013 - 03:21 .

[Eterna]

She does give Valid points. What makes you trust the Krogan so much?

[EnvyTB075]

Eterna5 wrote...

She does give Valid points. What makes you trust the Krogan so much?

She basically says "we screwed them over, screw them over again because we screwed them over".

[Steelcan]

Eterna5 wrote...

She does give Valid points. What makes you trust the Krogan so much?

. Wrex and Eve