284 réponses à ce sujet

[Massa FX]

No. The Dalatrass is a fool. My Shepard's never supported the genophage and allowing the Krogan a chance to evolve is the right thing to do. If they overpopulate the galaxy so be it. But I like Krogans so....

[CynicalShep]

Oransel wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Oransel wrote...

They can always uplift yahgs to battle krogans if it would be neccessary

And if those 2 decide that salarians are idiots and team up?

Both have no fleet and turians will make sure it stays that way.

That was the case back when the genophage was deployed, too. They almost won. Add the yahg, who are much smarter and the spiky monsters are screwed

[Wulfram]

The Krogan aren't much of a threat. Increased birth rate won't magically give them the economic base needed for large scale colonisation, much less the great power class space fleet that would be necessary for them to threaten other races.

Without outside aid all the cure would probably do is turn Tuchanka into an overcrowded hell-hole rather than a relatively sparsely populated one. With outside aid they could get colonising and maybe start to build themselves a decent future, but that outside aid could be given only if they accept strict restrictions on the size of their space fleet.

[Mcfly616]

She already does make "valid" points.


I just don't support them

[The Night Mammoth]

CynicalShep wrote...

Oransel wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Oransel wrote...

They can always uplift yahgs to battle krogans if it would be neccessary

And if those 2 decide that salarians are idiots and team up?

Both have no fleet and turians will make sure it stays that way.

That was the case back when the genophage was deployed, too. They almost won. Add the yahg, who are much smarter and the spiky monsters are screwed

That was not the case back when the genophage was deployed. The Krogan had a fleet, weapons, armour, resources, everything they needed really, because the asari and salarians gave it all to them to fight the rachni. 

This time they don't have any of that. Their biggest advantage is numbers, and that's meaningless in space. 

[Indy_S]

Mcfly616 wrote...

She already does make "valid" points.


I just don't support them

Sums it up nicely.

[delphonic]

I side with the Dalatrass and kill Mordin, not because I want to, but because it improves the galaxy's chances against the Reapers. If the Reapers win everyone goes extinct.

[SinerAthin]

delphonic wrote...

I side with the Dalatrass and kill Mordin, not because I want to, but because it improves the galaxy's chances against the Reapers. If the Reapers win everyone goes extinct.

Siding with the Dalatress is actually not helping the war against the Reapers.(but it is not harming it either)

The Dalatress is concerned with what happens after the war, as in the Krogans potentially plunging the galaxy into chaos again.

Modifié par SinerAthin, 04 mars 2013 - 06:15 .

[simonrana]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Yeah, the pro-krogan bias in the genophage plotline is really annoying. It's very clear who they want you to side with.

+1. Based on everything we know curing the genophage really seemed like the wrong thing to do, but since the game was screaming "CURE THE GENOPHAGE RIGHT THE WRONGS!" I just went with it. Hell even Mordin joined in, and he was the one that made it clear how disasterous a cure would be with pretty faultless logic in ME2.

[simonrana]

dreman9999 wrote...

avenging_teabag wrote...
BECAUSE BABIES
And poor writing. Poor writing everywhere - people are touting Tuchanka as the best part of ME3 - and it is - but it, in fact, involves, and hinges on, a complete character assassination of Mordin, one of the best, i dare say NPCs in all the Mass Effect series. Mordin, without warning or any particular reason, does a complete about face on everything he stood for in the 2nd game. In ME2 he made it pretty clear that he was aware of ethical implications of the genophage solution, struggled with them, but was willing to accept them for the good of the many.

Now, in ME3, suddenly, BABIES

Poor writing.

Wrong.
1. We don't knowhowlong the war will last and with the krogan rapid growth from birth, they can quickly replenish our groud troops.

2. Mordin was alway made as a character who became upset when he sees the worst of his work. EVE and her sister were just that.

3. Wink was alway like that.

There is no poor writing here.

Actually your point 2 is wrong, or at least irrelevant. ME2 showed Mordin getting upset when faced with the results of his actions and still standing by the necessity of those actions.

Pretty much exactly what the avenging teabag said.

[sravenblood]

Depends on which play through I am doing. If Wrex is dead, then my Shep fully supports the Dalatrass. On the play through that Wrex is alive, then absolutely do not support her because Wrex's goals and agendas prove her wrong.

[Jassu1979]

DragonIroh001 wrote...
Would that have made you side with her or would you still gone ahead and cured the Genophage?

Dooming a whole species to extinction for a crime committed by their forefathers? Nope, no deal.

Using such a terrible weapon in an act of self-defense was at least understandable, but the individuals who wreaked havoc on the galaxy are long gone, and it'd be a terrible crime to hold their descendants responsible for their misdeeds.

In short, there is no way to justify a deliberate and avoidable genocide.

[simonrana]

sravenblood wrote...

Depends on which play through I am doing. If Wrex is dead, then my Shep fully supports the Dalatrass. On the play through that Wrex is alive, then absolutely do not support her because Wrex's goals and agendas prove her wrong.

Except that it doesn't really even then, the game just uses loads of emotional manipulation to make us feel like it'll all be okay. Look at the facts:

- Each Krogan lives for over 1000 years.
- A single krogan female can birth up to 1000 young in a single year.

There is simply no way for an advanced, peacefully behaving society to control its population growth with stats like these, not without solutions that are arguably even worse than the genophage, such as:

- powerful dictatorial leadership that prevents 99.9% of the population from ever breeding, and places massive curbs on the breeding frequency of the remaining 0.01%

- maintain a culture rife with wars, diseases, accidents, etc in order to keep populations from spiking

- allow the majority of their young to die. If the main populous stays poverty striken this will take care of itself. A popuous that has access to money and resources would have to purposefully let their kids die.

Seriously describe one viable scenario in which the Krogan could possibly control their numbers AND achieve the status of a peaceful and "humane" culture?

The writers really wrote themselves into a corner with the Krogan, I can't believe how many people have been roped in by the emotional propaganda of ME3. I always figured they would come up with an improved genophage or something as an ideal resolution, something that would take the horror out of it but would still enable Krogan population control. For example a genetic modifiation that cut the amount of eggs per clutch to 1-3 but didn't cause any stillborns would have been the best of both worlds.

Modifié par simonrana, 04 mars 2013 - 10:42 .

[Bill Casey]

There is simply no way for an advanced, peacefully behaving society to control its population growth with stats like these, not without solutions that are arguably even worse than the genophage, such as:

"It's best I don't know what kind of eggs these are, no?"

[Ieldra]

simonrana wrote...

sravenblood wrote...

Depends on which play through I am doing. If Wrex is dead, then my Shep fully supports the Dalatrass. On the play through that Wrex is alive, then absolutely do not support her because Wrex's goals and agendas prove her wrong.

Except that it doesn't really even then, the game just uses loads of emotional manipulation to make us feel like it'll all be okay. Look at the facts:

- Each Krogan lives for over 1000 years.
- A single krogan female can birth up to 1000 young in a single year.

There is simply no way for an advanced, peacefully behaving society to control its population growth with stats like these, not without solutions that are arguably even worse than the genophage, such as:

- powerful dictatorial leadership that prevents 99.9% of the population from ever breeding, and places massive curbs on the breeding frequency of the remaining 0.01%

- maintain a culture rife with wars, diseases, accidents, etc in order to keep populations from spiking

- allow the majority of their young to die. If the main populous stays poverty striken this will take care of itself. A popuous that has access to money and resources would have to purposefully let their kids die.

Seriously describe one viable scenario in which the Krogan could possibly control their numbers AND achieve the status of a peaceful and "humane" culture?

The writers really wrote themselves into a corner with the Krogan, I can't believe how many people have been roped in by the emotional propaganda of ME3. I always figured they would come up with an improved genophage or something as an ideal resolution, something that would take the horror out of it but would still enable Krogan population control. For example a genetic modifiation that cut the amount of eggs per clutch to 1-3 but didn't cause any stillborns would have been the best of both worlds.

Agree 1000%! With the numbers presented in the games, it's inconceivable that anyone who thinks this through can come to the conclusion that a complete reversal of the genophage is even remotely a good idea. I've always said the krogan deserve a second chance, but not like this.

While playing, however, I go with what the story suggests. If Wrex and Bakara are alive, I usually cure it, otherwise I don't.

As for "letting the evolutionary process decide, not politics", that's hogwash. When since life became intelligent has politics not been an intrinsic part of what we are? Our social interactions are rooted in our biology, and politics can affect species survival and development in big ways, which means that politics are evolutionary significant. Or would *any* species roll over to be killed by the krogan just out of the dogma that the evolutionary process should remain unaffected by sapient artifice? It never was.   

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 mars 2013 - 11:18 .

[Archonsg]

Depends on which of my Shepard is being asked.

My Paragons would not support the Dalatress because they believe in the sanctity of life, in giving people chances and in "innocent until proven guilty".

My Paragades would weigh in his options and in this case, depending on if Wrex and Bakara is alive. Even so, it'll depend on if the Paragade in question is my Machiavellian toon.
That one would choose to *use* the Krogans and Sabotage the cure. Krogans fight the Reapers but die out in the end, perfect solution for everyone concerned. Cept the Krogans of course.

My Renegades are all pro-human. Some more prejudiced than others but, what do they care about a bunch of alien dying due to alien politics. 

Modifié par Archonsg, 04 mars 2013 - 11:56 .

[Steelcan]

Saying that there is no way for the krogan to control their population is wrong. There is no way that has yet worked. Even the genophage isn't a permanent measure.

[XPMUser]

I won't do this to Wrex

[Darth_Trethon]

***a billion facepalms***

I hate how people are completely unaware of anything relating to the Krogan Rebellions and immediately condone a cure because babies and "cuz Wrex is badass". Completely ignorant of the suffering the Krogans themselves have caused to warrant the genophage......with the genophage in place and if that bomb had been detonated on their planet the suffering of the Krogan would not even be remotely close to beginning to compensate for the suffering and destruction they caused to the Council races....and they reproduce like a virus out of control on top of being beyond extremely destructive, violent and ignorant.

It's not the Dalatrass' responsibility to give you a history lesson and my attitude would be no better if I was talking to a bunch of tw___.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 04 mars 2013 - 12:47 .

[Darth_Trethon]

delphonic wrote...

I side with the Dalatrass and kill Mordin, not because I want to, but because it improves the galaxy's chances against the Reapers. If the Reapers win everyone goes extinct.

In terms of war assets it's better to have killed Wrex in ME1 and destroyed Maelon's data in ME2 becaues Wreav does not figure out you sabotaged the cure so you do not lose any Krogan clans or support....plus you can succesfully persuade Mordin to let it go which saves his life and he becomes a War Asset as he goes and reports to Hacket to work on the Crucible.

[Jewlie Ghoulie]

Steelcan wrote...

I'd still cure the genophage if Wrex and Eve are alive. If Wreav is in charge I'd sabotage. Simple

I feel this way too.

[Helios969]

Hell no. I'll always pick friendship and loyalty over some whiny politician that would sell out their own people to maintain a position of power.

[Jassu1979]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

***a billion facepalms***

I hate how people are completely unaware of anything relating to the Krogan Rebellions and immediately condone a cure because babies and "cuz Wrex is badass". Completely ignorant of the suffering the Krogans themselves have caused to warrant the genophage......

The Krogans who participated in the rebellion have been dead for a long time.
Judging an entire species on account of what their ancestors did?
Yeah, that's a textbook example of racism.

I agree that a species that produces a thousand individuals per clutch and has a life expectancy of a millennium can pose a threat to itself and others if they reproduce indiscriminately - but that still does not justify deliberately driving them to extinction.

[Legbiter]

With Wrex and Eve in charge Shep cures the genophage. With Wreave in charge....not so much.

[Darth_Trethon]

Jewlie Ghoulie wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I'd still cure the genophage if Wrex and Eve are alive. If Wreav is in charge I'd sabotage. Simple

I feel this way too.

Remember Nyreen? More specifically the enormous ammout of time it took the Talons to completely discard and forget about all her values and morals after her passing before they went back to "hoonoring" the ways of the leader they had before Nyreen? About half of that ammout of time is what it would take the Krogan to forget about Wrex and Eve as they rally to the battle cries of the new leader after their passing....which I estimate to be about thirty seconds later. That and the fact that Wrex is completely oblivious to all the horrors the Krogan did to the council races to warrant the genophage as he plays the victim card.....they killed billions of innocents with asteroids. never at any point does he seem to understand the Krogan ever did any wrong which only shows that he too like the rest of his species have learned nothing from it.

All apart from the facts that they are as violent and uneducated as ever and billions of females each suddenly having a thousand babies per year would spell trouble for EVERY single other species as they would face only certain extinction regardless of Wrex or Eve.