133 réponses à ce sujet

[SgtElias]

I'm sure that, out of the eight save imports I have, at least one set of characters might decide to fight, but . . . for the most part, there'd have to be a very, very good reason.

And this goes for the Warden, as well; if my Inquisitor(s) would be willing to kill my Hawke(s), then they'd be willing to off my Warden(s), too, assuming the choice presented itself.

But, like I said, there'd have to be some serious context.

[Darth Death]

Wulfram wrote...

Concievably I might play an inquisitor who would kill some of my Hawkes, because they were on the other side on the Mage/Templar thing.

Though that's unlikely to be true in my first playthrough, because my first playthrough usually stays fairly close to my own morality.

I'm reminded of Game of Thrones. Big world with many characters that eventually die off. In DA you have Thedas, a big world with different protagonist for each game. I like this post since you brought up the different Hawkes you've made & why some of them may be punishable by death in DA3. Thanks for your input.

[bleetman]

Why would I want to? Hawke is great.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Bob Garbage wrote...

 I tend to play my first character as more of an extension of myself, meaning relatively good natured and someone who tries to ultimately do the right thing. So unless Hawke is trying to rape someone or is stealing candy from a child, I'd say he is safe from my wrath. Future playthroughs result in a lot of role playing, and I'd glady make a character who would kill Hawke without a second thought.

As for you people wondering why someone would role play a role playing game....well I never.

^Sme here.

[Browneye_Vamp84]

 I've finished DA2 three times.  Twice siding with the Circle and once with the Order.  I always go with my own sense of morals on first playthroughs and sometimes that ends pretty badly .  So, I just have to wait and see.    

[Darth Death]

SgtElias wrote...

I'm sure that, out of the eight save imports I have, at least one set of characters might decide to fight, but . . . for the most part, there'd have to be a very, very good reason.

And this goes for the Warden, as well; if my Inquisitor(s) would be willing to kill my Hawke(s), then they'd be willing to off my Warden(s), too, assuming the choice presented itself.

But, like I said, there'd have to be some serious context.

That reason is entirely up to you. Think about your Hawke & all the decisions he/she had made throughout the game. To add a little example: at the beginning, Hawke could either be a smuggler or a mercenary- both not commendable occupations, but gold was needed. Depending on how you play Hawke determines a lot of things. Good deeds, bad deeds, personal outlook etc.

By no means are the wardens safe from Darth Death. I've played as some pretty messed up wardens in Origins & if I had my way would kill them off as long as the option is available in DA3.  

Modifié par Darth Death, 19 février 2013 - 05:28 .

[SgtElias]

Darth Death wrote...

That reason is entirely up to you. Think about your Hawke & all the decisions he/she had made throughout the game. To add a little example: at the beginning, Hawke could either be a smuggler or a mercenary- both not commendable occupations, but gold was needed. Depending on how you play Hawke determines a lot of things. Good deeds, bad deeds, personal outlook etc.

By no means are the wardens safe from Darth Death. I've played as some pretty messed up wardens in Origins & if I had my way would kill them off as long as the option is available in DA3. 

Alright, let me rephrase a little.

I don't usually (ever, actually) make characters that I'd consider evil; the closest I've ever come is a jerk-ass Hawke who still wasn't that bad of a guy. So, if your question is could it ever happen, and would you ever consider it, yes. Every playthrough is different, and if could happen.

For instance, a lot of people are saying that they could see it happening with a pro-mage Hawke and an anti-mage Inquisitor (or vice versa). But I have a hard time making in-game decisions with any character that I morally disagree with. So I don't have any imports where I sided with the templars, and I (probably) won't be able to play an Inquisitor that is anti-mage.

So, it's not impossible; I might even make an Inquisitor specifically so I could see where a plot thread like this could lead. But it probably wouldn't happen.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Bob Garbage wrote...

 I tend to play my first character as more of an extension of myself, meaning relatively good natured and someone who tries to ultimately do the right thing. So unless Hawke is trying to rape someone or is stealing candy from a child, I'd say he is safe from my wrath.

Hmm... Hawke is not safe from my wrath because he is designed in a manner that can't be an extension of myself. A chaotic unpredictable moody yet lawful character who despise any law breakers such as blood mage and pirate.  Killing Hawke because of story's context has no meaning to me, when the one who design the game is the one who responsible to hurt me real bad, with pathetic goody goody friendly Hawke.

[LinksOcarina]

Darth Death wrote...

...Be killed by the main protagonist in DA3, would you do it? Would the choice be difficult to make?

Depends on the character I am playing as, but I must admit it would be a hard sell to kill him. 

[Blazomancer]

My canon character wouldn't probably do it as they are all the good sort, erm..relatively speaking of course. Although the decision would also depend upon the context.

[LobselVith8]

Darth Death wrote...

...Be killed by the main protagonist in DA3, would you do it? Would the choice be difficult to make?

Hypothetically, it depends on the situation, and the kind of person my current protagonist is. However, I'm not interested in seeing my prior protagonist again, whether it's the Hero of Ferelden or the Champion of Kirkwall. I think it would be a huge mistake to remove player agency over characters who were created by the players, since the developers don't know who the characters are.

My Surana Warden left Ferelden with Morrigan and his trusted Mabari Hound, entering the Eluvian of the Dragonbone Wastes and leaving everything and everyone else behind. My apostate Hawke left Kirkwall after rescuing the mages from Meredith, leaving with Merrill at his side, to be (in Anders' words') "the leader [the mages] have been waiting centuries for".

If my new protagonist needed to kill someone to accomplish something, it would depend on the context. Who would I kill? Why would I take these risks? Are people depending on me? Looking back, my Warden refused Caladrius' offer of a ritual that would sacrifice the lives of the elves, and when he became the new Warden-Commander, he refused to sacrifice the survivors in the City of Amaranthine, instead taking the chance to save the people from the darkspawn horde, despite the odds against him.

However, my Surana Warden killed Caridin and spared the Anvil of the Void, because it represented the best chance the dwarves had to protect themselves from the encroaching darkspawn who had destroyed all but two Great Thaigs over the centuries - as the Anvil proved invaluable in providing a hundred years of peace from the darkspawn, and beating back the first Archdemon Dumat from the dwarven kingdoms (before Caridin sealed the fortress and prevented new golems from being made). Defeating Caridin was necessary in order to help save the dwarven people. My Warden also executed the Messenger and killed the Architect (along with Utha), because he felt they posed a risk to the people of Thedas.

Again, it all depends on the situation, and the circumstances.

[KotorEffect3]

Why would I want to kill my old protaginist that I spent a game playing as?

[Sutekh]

Given a good reason (read: practical), some I would without hesitation (one in particular, my "opposite" playthrough). Others I simply couldn't kill unless the Inquisitor's life absolutely depends on it.

[Darth Death]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

...Be killed by the main protagonist in DA3, would you do it? Would the choice be difficult to make?

Hypothetically, it depends on the situation, and the kind of person my current protagonist is. However, I'm not interested in seeing my prior protagonist again, whether it's the Hero of Ferelden or the Champion of Kirkwall. I think it would be a huge mistake to remove player agency over characters who were created by the players, since the developers don't know who the characters are.

My Surana Warden left Ferelden with Morrigan and his trusted Mabari Hound, entering the Eluvian of the Dragonbone Wastes and leaving everything and everyone else behind. My apostate Hawke left Kirkwall after rescuing the mages from Meredith, leaving with Merrill at his side, to be (in Anders' words') "the leader [the mages] have been waiting centuries for".

If my new protagonist needed to kill someone to accomplish something, it would depend on the context. Who would I kill? Why would I take these risks? Are people depending on me? Looking back, my Warden refused Caladrius' offer of a ritual that would sacrifice the lives of the elves, and when he became the new Warden-Commander, he refused to sacrifice the survivors in the City of Amaranthine, instead taking the chance to save the people from the darkspawn horde, despite the odds against him.

However, my Surana Warden killed Caridin and spared the Anvil of the Void, because it represented the best chance the dwarves had to protect themselves from the encroaching darkspawn who had destroyed all but two Great Thaigs over the centuries - as the Anvil proved invaluable in providing a hundred years of peace from the darkspawn, and beating back the first Archdemon Dumat from the dwarven kingdoms (before Caridin sealed the fortress and prevented new golems from being made). Defeating Caridin was necessary in order to help save the dwarven people. My Warden also executed the Messenger and killed the Architect (along with Utha), because he felt they posed a risk to the people of Thedas.

Again, it all depends on the situation, and the circumstances.

Thanks for posting your view point. 

One of the reasons I centered this topic around Hawke more than the warden is because of the templar vs mage theme. I don't know how much of that will exist in DA3, but DA2 did emphasize the conflict to be ongoing & merely the beginning of it. Context is everywhere if sought. Hawke could be at the wrong place at the wrong time in DA3, similarly as you've said, " it all depends on the situation, and the circumstances." Hawke played a role in the templar vs mage conflict & some people are looking for him/her, Cassandra being one of them. I'd imagine others are also seeking Hawke for very different reasons- reasons that are unpleasant even. This is where people use their imagination in order to solve the question "why have the option to kill off Hawke in DA3?" You'll need to evaluate what your Hawke has done during your playthrough, therefore obtaining a personal reason that I strategically didn't supply. I'm curious to see what reasons people will come up with.  

Modifié par Darth Death, 19 février 2013 - 06:58 .

[Darth Death]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Why would I want to kill my old protaginist that I spent a game playing as?

That's the million dollar question you're suppose to answer. If you're not sure how to reply, examine what others have said to get a good idea. There's no right or wrong answers.

[Xerxes52]

While I liked my Hawke(s), I might kill one or two just for dramatic purposes.

Say if one of my Hawke(s) that supported the Mages met one of my Inquisitor characters that's a militant pro-Templar, then yes I might kill her if the chance arose.

[Tootles FTW]

I love my Hawkes. Well, except the one, but she's a b!tch.

[LobselVith8]

Darth Death wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hypothetically, it depends on the situation, and the kind of person my current protagonist is. However, I'm not interested in seeing my prior protagonist again, whether it's the Hero of Ferelden or the Champion of Kirkwall. I think it would be a huge mistake to remove player agency over characters who were created by the players, since the developers don't know who the characters are.

My Surana Warden left Ferelden with Morrigan and his trusted Mabari Hound, entering the Eluvian of the Dragonbone Wastes and leaving everything and everyone else behind. My apostate Hawke left Kirkwall after rescuing the mages from Meredith, leaving with Merrill at his side, to be (in Anders' words') "the leader [the mages] have been waiting centuries for".

If my new protagonist needed to kill someone to accomplish something, it would depend on the context. Who would I kill? Why would I take these risks? Are people depending on me? Looking back, my Warden refused Caladrius' offer of a ritual that would sacrifice the lives of the elves, and when he became the new Warden-Commander, he refused to sacrifice the survivors in the City of Amaranthine, instead taking the chance to save the people from the darkspawn horde, despite the odds against him.

However, my Surana Warden killed Caridin and spared the Anvil of the Void, because it represented the best chance the dwarves had to protect themselves from the encroaching darkspawn who had destroyed all but two Great Thaigs over the centuries - as the Anvil proved invaluable in providing a hundred years of peace from the darkspawn, and beating back the first Archdemon Dumat from the dwarven kingdoms (before Caridin sealed the fortress and prevented new golems from being made). Defeating Caridin was necessary in order to help save the dwarven people. My Warden also executed the Messenger and killed the Architect (along with Utha), because he felt they posed a risk to the people of Thedas.

Again, it all depends on the situation, and the circumstances. 

Thanks for posting your view point. 

One of the reasons I centered this topic around Hawke more than the warden is because of the templar vs mage theme. I don't know how much of that will exist in DA3, but DA2 did emphasize the conflict to be ongoing & merely the beginning of it. Context is everywhere if sought. Hawke could be at the wrong place at the wrong time in DA3, similarly as you've said, " it all depends on the situation, and the circumstances." Hawke played a role in the templar vs mage conflict & some people are looking for him/her, Cassandra being one of them. I'd imagine others are also seeking Hawke for very different reasons- reasons that are unpleasant even. This is where people use their imagination in order to solve the question "why have the option to kill off Hawke in DA3?" You'll need to evaluate what your Hawke has done during your playthrough, therefore obtaining a personal reason that I strategically didn't supply. I'm curious to see what reasons people will come up with.

You're welcome, Darth Death.

In line with your example of the Mage-Templar War and conflict, I think the schism between the mages and the templars could also be applied to the Hero of Ferelden from the Circle of Magi, who can ask the new ruler to give his (or her) people their independence from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. With a national hero publicly advocating mage autonomy years prior to the Mage-Templar War, with the support of the Crown (as Queen Anora and King Alistair publicly agree that the mages of the Circle of Ferelden have earned the right to govern themselves), I can see the rebel mages attempting to locate the Hero of Ferelden to become their advocate, or more likely, their leader. A rebellion spanning the continent of Thedas likely isn't going to simply have one leader, after all.

The Hero of Ferelden has lead entire armies to victory, as well as (possibly) serving as a political leader who governed an entire city, the arling's military, and his own sect of Grey Wardens. I think it would have an irrevocable impact to have Circle mages learning that one of their own saved the world from the latest Blight, publicly asked for the freedom of his Circle (instead of asking for a title or riches) with the support of the nation's ruler, (possibly) saved the City of Amaranthine from another darkspawn horde (strengthening his position as a national hero among the people), and successfully governing an arling in a position of power that is likely unheard of outside of the Tevinter Imperium.

Whether we actually see the Hero of Ferelden or not, I imagine his past actions would have a ripple effect among the rebel mages.

As for the Champion of Kirkwall, I imagine being a noble who was a known apostate who saved the city-state of Kirkwall from the Qunari, as well as saving the mages from Meredith and her templars (for a pro-mage Hawke), would play a role among the rebel mages, especially if Hawke took a leadership position among the mages who emancipated themselves from the Chantry and the templars (which is continually addressed in dialogue by Anders who encourages apostate Hawke to pursue this path, and possibly by Hawke, if the Champion admits he seeks to be a leader to Varric, and discusses with Anders how he seeks to overthrow the templars).

I imagine you have a point about some people wanting to find Hawke for 'unpleasant reasons' - Cassandra initially seems to think that Hawke is an enemy who was spreading "subversion against the Chantry", and only changes her attitude when she realizes that Hawke wasn't the villain she thought he was. I can also see Lambert's faction of Seekers and templars attempting to locate and execute the pro-mage Champion of Kirkwall (moreso if Hawke is an active apostate leader in the mage rebellion).

That said, my focus is on mage protagonists, so while they certainly differ on some issues (my Warden was a pragmatic leader who sided with Prince Bhelen and opposed working with 'awakened' darkspawn, while my Champion rescued Lord Renvil Harrowmont from Bhelen's assassins and thought that Corypheus might prove useful to stopping future Blights), they don't really differ on the issue of mages - given how both protagonists are free mages. I imagine my next protagonist will be a mage as well, although different from my Surana Warden and my apostate Hawke - I've considered trying a more 'militant' personality for my next protagonist, although it's likely subject to change depending on the story and the scenario. Therefore, when it comes to the dichotomy between mages and templars, I probably wouldn't kill Hawke with a new protagonist.

As for other potential scenarios, I really don't see the Champion (or even the Hero) being an antagonist to the point where my protagonist would need to kill him. I'd be inclined to help the elves reclaim the Dales from the Orlesian Empire, for example, but my apostate Hawke's romantic relationship with Merrill makes it unlikely that he would be an opponent of that goal.

Like the example of my apostate Hawke who helped the survivor of House Harrowmont survive Bhelen, I do try to imagine my protagonist as a new person without the baggage of the prior protagonist, and who might do things my prior protagonist wouldn't do. I tend to focus on creating mage characters, so I'm not currently inclined to side or work with Divine Justina V and her group, or Lambert's faction (by any measure), so there are certainly people who I would consider killing if the situation warranted it (for example, if it was an 'Urn of Sacred Ashes' type of scenario where the respective person threatened the life of my protagonist because my character opposed their goal). I admit, Leliana, Cassandra, Cullen, Divine Justina V, and Lambert are on that list of people I would be willing to eradicate for the betterment of Thedas, since I imagine those characters may have goals that run in direct opposition to my character's own.

[Kajagoogoo3]

 Not really, no. Why would we go through the trouble of the events in Dragon Age 2 only to end up killing him in Dragon Age 3? It just makes no sense.

[TheJediSaint]

Kajagoogoo3 wrote...

 Not really, no. Why would we go through the trouble of the events in Dragon Age 2 only to end up killing him in Dragon Age 3? It just makes no sense.

Because for every character in Dragon Age, there's a fan who wants to kill them.

[Sharn01]

If I read in reviews that Hawke and/or the Warden make an appearance in DA3 it will go on the never buy list. Those are suppose to be my characters, regardless if I felt a connection to them or not, the goal of the game is to make them feel like they are yours.

[Darth Death]

LobselVith8 wrote...
SNIP

This is amazing! Well-worded, well-constructed, & well-thought out. I must say you made your point unequivocally evident concerning the participation of the warden among other things. Fantastic. 

[Darth Death]

Kajagoogoo3 wrote...

 Not really, no. Why would we go through the trouble of the events in Dragon Age 2 only to end up killing him in Dragon Age 3? It just makes no sense.

I propose this as an option if possible. Also consider that DA isn't really about one particular person, but Thedas as a whole. Realistically people die & become apart of history. My warden will eventually die due to the darkspawn taint, but his legacy will always be remembered. The same can be said for Hawke. 

[Twisted Path]

Yes, absolutely. I thought Hawke was a pretty terrible character even if you tried to be good.