458 réponses à ce sujet

[ElSuperGecko]

...because some people appear to forget in the last five minutes.

If anyone's stuck in the "Us vs Them" mentality, it's the Reapers themselves.  When have they ever shown any care for anything other than their own designs?

Time and time again they've told us we are insignificant, our actions meaningless and futile, that we are nothing but insects before them, that our destruction is necessary and inevitable.

They've proven to be remorseless, emotionless, brutal, relentless. They've butched billions of innocent living beings, exterminated thousands of races and wiped out countless civilisations over the course of millenia.

DO NOT FORGET THIS FACT.

The REAPERS are the aggressors. The REAPERS are the ones who refuse to negotiate. The REAPERS are the ones who perpetrate the cycle of extinction and unless they are removed from the equation, they will inevitably be the ones who end it.

Only when their backs are truly to the wall do they become willing to talk.  But even then, they try to twist us to fulfilling their own goals.  To making their purpose our own.  Now, you can empathise with the Catalyst if you want, you can listen to it's (inhuman) arguments, accept it's (disingenuous) assertations and agree with it's (flawed) logic if you wish, but TWO MINUTES of nonsensical platitudes and vague assurances are not enough to convince me that everything we know about the Reapers is a lie.

The Reapers have told us from day one: "YOUR DESTRUCTION IS INEVITABLE"

They kill indiscriminately - soldier, civilian, man, woman, child, baby. They care nothing for anything but their own motives, their own goals. And they are clever enough and manipulative enough to persuade people to trust them, to accept them, to believe in them. Just like you're doing right now.

They turn organic races against each other, and that's why they have always - ALWAYS - won.

We can't trust them. We can't allow them to influence us. We can't let them sway our resolve.

We FIGHT. Or we DIE.

By their very nature, they've given us no other choice.

[Vic7im]

What?

[FlyinElk212]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

The REAPERS are the aggressors.

Incorrect. The aggressors are ourselves, specifically organic life creating synthetic life which in all past cycles has created some form of conflict. The Reapers act aggressively against the galaxy's own aggression.

The REAPERS are the ones who refuse to negotiate.

They just negotiated with us in the final scene with the Starchild.

The REAPERS are the ones who perpetrate the cycle of extinction and unless they are removed from the equation, they will inevitably be the ones who end it.

So...

We want to end the cycle of extinction, so we won't end the cycle of extinction with the Reapers because we want to end the cycle of extinction??

BTW, huge supporter of destroy. Just these tidbits didn't really make much sense to me.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 19 février 2013 - 05:25 .

[Massa FX]

No argument from me. Two thumbs up OP! The Reapers are not the victims.

[ElSuperGecko]

FlyinElk212 wrote...
Incorrect. The aggressors are ourselves, specifically organic life creating synthetic life which in all past cycles has created some form of conflict. The Reapers act aggressively against the galaxy's own aggression.

Incorrect.  The Reapers are the ones harvesting Earth, and Thessia.  And Palaven.  And Tuchanka.  And the rest of the galaxy.  You've blinded yourself to that which is right in front of you.

They just negotiated with us in the final scene with the Starchild.

Incorrect.  They simply told us what they wanted us to do, and what they didn't want us to do.

We want to end the cycle of extinction, so we won't end the cycle of extinction with the Reapers because we want to end the cycle of extinction??

Incorrect.  The Reapers are responsible for the cycle of extinction.  They are the ones directly and deliberately threatening our galaxy, and our way of life.  Believe anything else, and you're doing nothing but accepting their logic (and their lies).

[BleedingUranium]

Yeeaaaaah! The only good Reaper is a dead Reaper!

[Daniel_N7]

Agree. Also, the "Refuse" ending is proof that the Reapers aren't here to negotiate at all, they just want us to comply with their rules. Nuke the bastards I say!

[DeepChild]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

The REAPERS are the aggressors.

Incorrect. The aggressors are ourselves, specifically organic life creating synthetic life which in all past cycles has created some form of conflict. The Reapers act aggressively against the galaxy's own aggression.

The REAPERS are the ones who refuse to negotiate.

They just negotiated with us in the final scene with the Starchild.

No offense, but *facepalm*.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

The REAPERS are the ones who refuse to negotiate.

They just negotiated with us in the final scene with the Starchild.

Agreed with your post, except for this little bit.

I think the relationship between controlled and controller indicates two seperate entities, so, Catalyst =/= Reapers.

Likewise, speaking to Sovereign on Virimire is not also speaking to Saren.

[spotlessvoid]

Stupid aggressive organics. Why did they have to attack the Reapers? Can't a giant robo-cuttlefish do his job in peace without organics wanting to disrupt everything. When really, the Reapers are being the mature ones. They just want to negotiate but organics won't cooperate.

[FlyinElk212]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...
They just negotiated with us in the final scene with the Starchild.

Incorrect.  They simply told us what they wanted us to do, and what they didn't want us to do.

So they told us to jump in the beam, and didn't give us the option to control them or flat out destroy them?

The Reapers are responsible for the cycle of extinction.  They are the ones directly and deliberately threatening our galaxy, and our way of life.  Believe anything else, and you're doing nothing but accepting their logic (and their lies).

True, but the scene with the Starchild tries to validate their exctinctive process, then gives YOU the power in terms of how you choose to end it. One such choice being flat out destroy them.

The Reapers are the ones harvesting Earth, and Thessia.  And Palaven.  And Tuchanka.  And the rest of the galaxy.  You've blinded yourself to that which is right in front of you.

While this is correct, the scene with Starchild, again, tries to validate the Reapers reasonings for doing so. Whether or not we accept those reasonings is what's truly in question.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 19 février 2013 - 05:53 .

[in it for the lolz]

Yeah! lets give thoze Reaper gitz a good and proper WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

[DirtyPhoenix]

Thanks for the reminder. Still not picking destroy..

[CoolioThane]

lol @ non-destroyers. Look at all the indoctrinated

[spotlessvoid]

CoolioThane wrote...

lol @ non-destroyers. Look at all the indoctrinated

Maybe if you weren't so close minded you'd get green lazors too. No elbow toaster for you.

[Han Shot First]

I like my Reapers dead.

[Killdren88]

Agreed. I find it odd that people are willing to overlook the eons of extermination and give the Reapers the galactic version of community service all because the brat tries to justify it all with BS logic. The Reapers could have easily simply came down and open dialogue with the races of the galaxy but no. Straight to extermination. If they truly wanted to end their cycles they would have explained it at first And see if this cycle was willing to cooperate. If not then on with the cycle. The fact that did not even try to open and sort of dialogue aside from their constant talk of how insignificant we are proved that they don't care. As OP said only when we had them to their backs were they were willing to look at other options.

[ElSuperGecko]

FlyinElk212 wrote...
So they told us to jump in the beam, and didn't give us the option to control them or flat out destroy them?

They did.  However, they presented Destroy in a negative light, and tried to steer us away from it.  They presented Synthesis in an entirely positive light - "It is the perfect solution" - whi9le expecting us to take those assurances on nothing more than good faith.  Good faith in a being which is directly responsible for routinely exterminating all advanced organic life for billions of years.

True, but the scene with the Starchild tries to validate their exctinctive process, then gives YOU the power in terms of how you choose to end it. One such choice being flat out destroy them.

The Catalyst tries to validate the extinction process by conjecture and hyberbole.  Its vague conclusions of inevitable future conflict between organics and synthetics are unprovable, and irrelevant to the current plight of the galaxy.

The threat we face as Shepard - is the Catalyst's own doing, and the Catalyst alone is responsible.

Don't let yourself become distracted by the Catalyst's ifs, buts and maybes.  The Catalyst may be working to prevent a technological singularity (or it may be doing something else entirely), but that's not OUR goal.

While this is correct, the scene with Starchild, again, tries to validate the Reapers reasonings for doing so. Whether or not we accept those reasonings is what's truly in question.

Indeed.  And how do we accept the reasonings of a being that we know first hand is capable of persuading other beings to to it's bidding?  That has time and time again turned organics against their own kind, in pursuing it's own goals?

The only remorse that the Catalyst ever shows is that it's Reaper solution is in danger of failing.  It has no pity, no compassion, no understanding or comprehension of what it means to be alive and absolutely no regard for individual lifeforms or even individual species.  When it tells us "this is MY perfect solution" - and we know first hand how horrific it's previous "perfect solution" turned out to be - how can we accept what it is telling us will be the truth?

The only way - the ONLY way - we can save the races of the galaxy and preserve our way of life is by ending the Reaper threat once and or all.  No ifs, no buts, no maybes.  Dead Reapers are the way we win this.

"I say we take off, nuke the entire site from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure."

[ElSuperGecko]

in it for the lolz wrote...
Yeah! lets give thoze Reaper gitz a good and proper WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!  

[dorktainian]

those poor reapers. someone pass me a tissue so i can catch my tears.

[in it for the lolz]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...
Yeah! lets give thoze Reaper gitz a good and proper WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!  

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Modifié par in it for the lolz, 19 février 2013 - 06:27 .

[jtav]

I'm not overlooking what they did. But 1) the game plants enough doubt as to their free will that I prefer to err on the side of caution and 2) I have strong feelings about when war and capital punishment are permitted. And they're permitted if and only if there's no other way to protect others. You may argue that there isn't and I see the logic. But the ideal is no casualties, even Reapers.

[dorktainian]

for frodo....

[dorktainian]

jtav wrote...

I'm not overlooking what they did. But 1) the game plants enough doubt as to their free will that I prefer to err on the side of caution and 2) I have strong feelings about when war and capital punishment are permitted. And they're permitted if and only if there's no other way to protect others. You may argue that there isn't and I see the logic. But the ideal is no casualties, even Reapers.

dear god, any sentient beings taken inside the reapers are already dead, and overseen by an AI reaper overlord. 

he kills bunnies.

[Enhanced]

I think most the OP is true, except this...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

  Now, you can empathise with the Catalyst if you want, you can listen to it's (inhuman) arguments, accept it's (disingenuous) assertations and agree with it's (flawed) logic if you wish, but TWO MINUTES of nonsensical platitudes and vague assurances are not enough to convince me that everything we know about the Reapers is a lie.

 The existence of the Crucible itself and the Leviathan's info prove that's the Catalyst's logic isn't flawed, the inevitable synthetic/organic conflicts are a real concern. Even, under the Leviathan's influence, civlizations were always eventually wiped out by their own creations. Whoever designed the Crucible recognized this also. 
 
So, here's another reminder: They are a solution to the problem. Destroying them doesn't make the problem go away.

Modifié par Enhanced, 19 février 2013 - 06:34 .