458 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

Garrus: Together we can stop the Catalyst. We don't have to submit to the Reapers. We can beat them!

Shepard: I no longer believe that Garrus. The visions cannot be denied. The Reapers are too powerful. The only hope of survival is to join with them. The Catalyst is an AI. It thinks like an AI. If I can prove my value, I become a resource, worth maintaining. There is no other logical conclusion.

Garrus: You were a Spectre. You swore to protect the galaxy. Then you broke that vow to save yourself.

Shepard: I'm not doing this for myself. Don't you see, the Catalyst will succeed. It is inevitable. My way is the only way any of us will survive. I'm forging an alliance between us and the Reapers, between organics and machines, and in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever existed. But you would undo my work. You would doom our entire civilization to complete annihilation, and for that, you must die.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 20 février 2013 - 06:23 .

[CronoDragoon]

CosmicGnosis wrote...
And people believe that Synthesis is the same thing, despite all the evidence we have that suggests that it isn't. Look, I get that the Collectors are mindless Reaper slaves. But Synthesis is different. And I realize that most people won't accept what I just said. In fact, I wonder why I keep engaging in these debates when no one ever changes their minds. Granted, I have, at various times, selected each of the three endings as my canon. At this time, I don't have one.

Well, I don't believe Synthesis is the same thing. And you may not be able to change people's minds, but I still think it's worth it to debate here when you meet others who can understand the pros and cons of each ending and can debate themes and morals without labeling one another as "monstrous".

[Wayning_Star]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I'm not sure that I buy into the notion that a largely beneficial form of transhumanism along the lines of what Ieldra envisions is necessarily verboten within the MEU. I just don't trust that transhumanistic ideal to be delivered by a brainwashing mass murderer. Plain and simple. Let's not lose sight of that.

Who,exactly, is this brainwashing mass murderer, we should arrest and charge them!!

(trick question, by the way)

well . just because it looks like a boy ...

Some times having heart and following it just isn't the hot tip. Why does 'it' look like a boy? I've often wondered why everyone is suprised by that?

anyway, don't let the obvious skew better judgement.,especally in a mystery story, things are never as they seem,

[Wayning_Star]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Garrus: Together we can stop the Catalyst. We don't have to submit to the Reapers. We can beat them!

Shepard: I no longer believe that Garrus. The visions cannot be denied. The Reapers are too powerful. The only hope of survival is to join with them. The Catalyst is an AI. It thinks like an AI. If I can prove my value, I become a resource, worth maintaining. There is no other logical conclusion.

Garrus: You were a Spectre. You swore to protect the galaxy. Then you broke that vow to save yourself.

Shepard: I'm not doing this for myself. Don't you see, the Catalyst will succeed. It is inevitable. My way is the only way any of us will survive. I'm forging an alliance between us and the Reapers, between organics and machines, and in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever existed. But you would undo my work. You would doom our entire civilization to complete annihilation, and for that, you must die.

excellent reaper immitation..Kudos!!

[Dr_Extrem]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I'm not sure that I buy into the notion that a largely beneficial form of transhumanism along the lines of what Ieldra envisions is necessarily verboten within the MEU. I just don't trust that transhumanistic ideal to be delivered by a brainwashing mass murderer. Plain and simple. Let's not lose sight of that.

Who,exactly, is this brainwashing mass murderer, we should arrest and charge them!!

(trick question, by the way)

well . just because it looks like a boy ...

Some times having heart and following it just isn't the hot tip. Why does 'it' look like a boy? I've often wondered why everyone is suprised by that?

anyway, don't let the obvious skew better judgement.,especally in a mystery story, things are never as they seem,

it is simple .. it looks like a boy, to send shepard on a guilt trip. this boy is shepards weakness, because it is the symbol for shepard, that he/she cant save everyone - that shepard already failed.

this makes shepard open to suggestion and the catalysts ideas.


if the catalyst would look like a reaper, shepard would not even consider listening to it.

[Steelcan]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

That's definitely not what I got out of that. A major lesson in Mass Effect is the organic life is life, synthetic life is life, but combinations of the two are always horrible monsters.

And before anyone can say "Shepard", Shepard is considered fully organic in the MEU, as his brain does not have any tech.

And I completely reject that belief. It's so ridiculous.

. I agree.  Shepard is a combination

[Argolas]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I'm not sure that I buy into the notion that a largely beneficial form of transhumanism along the lines of what Ieldra envisions is necessarily verboten within the MEU. I just don't trust that transhumanistic ideal to be delivered by a brainwashing mass murderer. Plain and simple. Let's not lose sight of that.

Who,exactly, is this brainwashing mass murderer, we should arrest and charge them!!

(trick question, by the way)

well . just because it looks like a boy ...

Some times having heart and following it just isn't the hot tip. Why does 'it' look like a boy? I've often wondered why everyone is suprised by that?

anyway, don't let the obvious skew better judgement.,especally in a mystery story, things are never as they seem,

it is simple .. it looks like a boy, to send shepard on a guilt trip. this boy is shepards weakness, because it is the symbol for shepard, that he/she cant save everyone - that shepard already failed.

this makes shepard open to suggestion and the catalysts ideas.


if the catalyst would look like a reaper, shepard would not even consider listening to it.

I honestly did that the first time I reached the ending. It went kinda like this:

*Game shows me the Destroy option*
Me: Alright, I decided!
Catalyst: "Yeah, you could destroy us but I don't think you should because..."
Me: Shut up and step aside *shoots the tube*

[Wayning_Star]

CronoDragoon wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...
And people believe that Synthesis is the same thing, despite all the evidence we have that suggests that it isn't. Look, I get that the Collectors are mindless Reaper slaves. But Synthesis is different. And I realize that most people won't accept what I just said. In fact, I wonder why I keep engaging in these debates when no one ever changes their minds. Granted, I have, at various times, selected each of the three endings as my canon. At this time, I don't have one.

Well, I don't believe Synthesis is the same thing. And you may not be able to change people's minds, but I still think it's worth it to debate here when you meet others who can understand the pros and cons of each ending and can debate themes and morals without labeling one another as "monstrous".

to meta game, I think its more just about SP vs MP, as those that groove on shooters, wouldn't like the idea of peace as it's not good for their online business, shooting invading reaper forces. If peace is found in the single player, then online game would diengenuous. Synthesis represents total peace and the end of the reaper threat, pretty obivous, so we have quick reminders of what is at stake for the mulit player shooters.

end meta game

[Dr_Extrem]

Argolas wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I'm not sure that I buy into the notion that a largely beneficial form of transhumanism along the lines of what Ieldra envisions is necessarily verboten within the MEU. I just don't trust that transhumanistic ideal to be delivered by a brainwashing mass murderer. Plain and simple. Let's not lose sight of that.

Who,exactly, is this brainwashing mass murderer, we should arrest and charge them!!

(trick question, by the way)

well . just because it looks like a boy ...

Some times having heart and following it just isn't the hot tip. Why does 'it' look like a boy? I've often wondered why everyone is suprised by that?

anyway, don't let the obvious skew better judgement.,especally in a mystery story, things are never as they seem,

it is simple .. it looks like a boy, to send shepard on a guilt trip. this boy is shepards weakness, because it is the symbol for shepard, that he/she cant save everyone - that shepard already failed.

this makes shepard open to suggestion and the catalysts ideas.


if the catalyst would look like a reaper, shepard would not even consider listening to it.

I honestly did that the first time I reached the ending. It went kinda like this:

*Game shows me the Destroy option*
Me: Alright, I decided!
Catalyst: "Yeah, you could destroy us but I don't think you should because..."
Me: Shut up and step aside *shoots the tube*

yeah .. sadly, the conversation can not be skipped .. (oh well ... i do)

[BleedingUranium]

@Wayning_Star That makes no sense at all. As usual.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 20 février 2013 - 06:35 .

[CosmicGnosis]

One of the leaked scripts had this little moment:

Catalyst: There is another choice.

Catalyst: My ultimate goal, the exact solution to the singularity problem, is to combine the synthetic and the organic.

Shepard: Combine?

Catalyst: Much like yourself. You are already a melding of both.

[clennon8]

I don't think he's trying to make sense. He's like a diarrheic bird circling overhead, crapping on everything out of spite.

[BleedingUranium]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

One of the leaked scripts had this little moment:

Catalyst: There is another choice.

Catalyst: My ultimate goal, the exact solution to the singularity problem, is to combine the synthetic and the organic.

Shepard: Combine?

Catalyst: Much like yourself. You are already a melding of both.

The first of the two Catalyst lines is far more interesting.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 20 février 2013 - 06:43 .

[Argolas]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

One of the leaked scripts had this little moment:

Catalyst: There is another choice.

Catalyst: My ultimate goal, the exact solution to the singularity problem, is to combine the synthetic and the organic.

Shepard: Combine?

Catalyst: Much like yourself. You are already a melding of both.

How's that different from what we have?

Shepard: I can't make that decision.

Catalyst: Why not? Synthetics are already part of you. Can you imagine your life without them?

[Argolas]

BleedingUranium wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

One of the leaked scripts had this little moment:

Catalyst: There is another choice.

Catalyst: My ultimate goal, the exact solution to the singularity problem, is to combine the synthetic and the organic.

Shepard: Combine?

Catalyst: Much like yourself. You are already a melding of both.

The first of the two Catalyst lines is far more interesting.

Why of course it was the ultimate goal all along. Combining synthetics and organics was what it did all the time, it's called Reapers, Collectors, husks, ravangers... Synthesis is just a different way to combine. Or not.

Modifié par Argolas, 20 février 2013 - 06:39 .

[clennon8]

Equivalence fallacy. A guy with some implants is being equated to a galaxy-wide DNA rewrite. It's crap.

[Wayning_Star]

[/quote]

I honestly did that the first time I reached the ending. It went kinda like this:

*Game shows me the Destroy option*
Me: Alright, I decided!
Catalyst: "Yeah, you could destroy us but I don't think you should because..."
Me: Shut up and step aside *shoots the tube*

[/quote]

my impression was WTF, why not be a kid, compared to the MEU all the ongoing strife,mass destruction and foolishness of countless 'intellectuals' brought Shep to this point. Why understan it when it's soo much easier to just 'end' it.. but then I realized, wars are not won with one battle..and though OH CRAP..the writers have done it to me, the MEU isn't a cut'n dried reality, I cannot get away with thinking like a Reapership... couldn't be one, couldn't destroy the idea of them..didn't like the idea of altering reality to commit Shep to that fate.

Oh well, took the job, and some one has to do it for this cycle and many others.. I got a second chance, so I'm ahead of the game.. Went Renagade.

(other choices may vary on predetermined aspect and perspectives)

[ruggly]

Just because Shepard happens to be the perfect example of what the catalyst wants, doesn't mean that Shepard can't be roleplayed to be the biggest dickwad in the galaxy and loathe AIs in general.

[CronoDragoon]

clennon8 wrote...
Equivalence fallacy. A guy with some implants is being equated to a galaxy-wide DNA rewrite. It's crap.

That was all in response to the suggestion that Shepard "doesn't count" as an example of someone part-organic part-synthetic in the story, not that the way he is a combination of both is the same as how Synthesis works.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 20 février 2013 - 06:46 .

[Untold]

I still can't help but feel like the endings are all pretty much a trick that will be elaborated on in future Mass Effect games (not necessarily involving Shepard). Given that the series is so heavily inspired by Babylon 5, I think this scene kind of sums up my thoughts on the endings somewhat.

Watch the full vid and tell me some of it doesn't sound somewhat familiar.

youtu.be/CJLKtXxnGr4

I find that bit at 3:40 particularly interesting.

Modifié par Untold, 20 février 2013 - 06:48 .

[Dr_Extrem]

[Wayning_Star]

BleedingUranium wrote...

@Wayning_Star That makes no sense at all. As usual.

ahh, more indoctrination attempts..interesting how those that destroy tend toward the enemies troupe..

kids will be... kids.

[Dr_Extrem]

Wayning_Star wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

@Wayning_Star That makes no sense at all. As usual.

ahh, more indoctrination attempts..interesting how those that destroy tend toward the enemies troupe..

kids will be... kids.

oh this again ... you are not mature enough to choose synthesis.


grow up. only kids call other people kids.

[Wayning_Star]

I sense that deviation from lore and game facts are incomming, defense mechinisms are being gathered as more metagame reality takes hold.

The MEU is doomed to endless chaos...sad really.

[Wayning_Star]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

@Wayning_Star That makes no sense at all. As usual.

ahh, more indoctrination attempts..interesting how those that destroy tend toward the enemies troupe..

kids will be... kids.

oh this again ... you are not mature enough to choose synthesis.


grow up. only kids call other people kids.

more invectives as basis of arguement..best laid plans of mice and well, not men..lol