458 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

high ems destroy is the "hardest to get" actually.

This, and even if he personally likes Synthesis the best, that doesn't mean anything, as he's not speaking for Bioware, only himself.

[CronoDragoon]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Michael Gamble Twitter posts:

https://twitter.com/...331064825266176
https://twitter.com/...352183313674240
https://twitter.com/...716673411923970

In these tweets, he expresses no problems with Synthesis, states that Destroy is not the best ending, and implies that Synthesis is the optimal ending.

What do these tweets mean to you guys?

It means Synthesis is his favorite ending.

[CosmicGnosis]

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 20 février 2013 - 09:52 .

[Wayning_Star]

CronoDragoon wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Michael Gamble Twitter posts:

https://twitter.com/...331064825266176
https://twitter.com/...352183313674240
https://twitter.com/...716673411923970

In these tweets, he expresses no problems with Synthesis, states that Destroy is not the best ending, and implies that Synthesis is the optimal ending.

What do these tweets mean to you guys?

It means Synthesis is his favorite ending.

but the idea is there is no concept of machine or organic anymore. There is only life.?

oop's.. Number two has..implications

fa·vor·ite(fvr-t, fvrt)
n.
1.
a. One that enjoys special favor or regard.
b. One that is trusted, indulged, or preferred above all others, especially by a superior: a favorite of the monarch.
2. A contestant or competitor regarded as most likely to win.
adj.
Liked or preferred above all others; regarded with special favor.

[BleedingUranium]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

Any of these are possible:

-He personally likes Synthesis.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, and is adding to the ending controversy.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, but is trying to make people think it's Bioware's preferred ending.


It's also worth mentioning that Patrick Weekes likes the breastfeeding Banshees Synthesis fanart, which is an obvious sign that he doesn't like Synthesis.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 20 février 2013 - 09:59 .

[CosmicGnosis]

BleedingUranium wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

Any of these are possible:

-He personally likes Synthesis.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, and is adding to the ending controversy.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, but is trying to make people think it's Bioware's preferred ending.


It's also worth mentioning that Patrick Weekes likes the breastfeeding Banshees Synthesis fanart, which is an obvious sign that he doesn't like it.

So it's all pretty vague and meaningless.

Um... I don't think anyone likes that fanart. And that's all it is: fanart. We don't know if Banshees could actually breastfeed babies in a Synthesis future. Did Weekes ever state his preferred ending? I think Mark Meer likes Control...

[dorktainian]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

Any of these are possible:

-He personally likes Synthesis.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, and is adding to the ending controversy.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, but is trying to make people think it's Bioware's preferred ending.


It's also worth mentioning that Patrick Weekes likes the breastfeeding Banshees Synthesis fanart, which is an obvious sign that he doesn't like it.

So it's all pretty vague and meaningless.

Um... I don't think anyone likes that fanart. And that's all it is: fanart. We don't know if Banshees could actually breastfeed babies in a Synthesis future. Did Weekes ever state his preferred ending? I think Mark Meer likes Control...

mark meer said he likes control because he ends up a 2 mile long reaper overlord dude - or words to that effect.

[AlanC9]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

We already knew it was supposed to be a "good" ending. Every ending except Refuse is good.

[Wayning_Star]

BleedingUranium wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

Any of these are possible:

-He personally likes Synthesis.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, and is adding to the ending controversy.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, but is trying to make people think it's Bioware's preferred ending.


It's also worth mentioning that Patrick Weekes likes the breastfeeding Banshees Synthesis fanart, which is an obvious sign that he doesn't like Synthesis.

I kind of liked the macabre humor/grim MEU reality of those,but still see synthesis as probable canon?

[CosmicGnosis]

AlanC9 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

We already knew it was supposed to be a "good" ending. Every ending except Refuse is good.

Ehhhh, no. A lot of people on BSN don't believe that it's a good ending.

[Dr_Extrem]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

Any of these are possible:

-He personally likes Synthesis.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, and is adding to the ending controversy.
-He doesn't actually like Synthesis, but is trying to make people think it's Bioware's preferred ending.


It's also worth mentioning that Patrick Weekes likes the breastfeeding Banshees Synthesis fanart, which is an obvious sign that he doesn't like it.

So it's all pretty vague and meaningless.

Um... I don't think anyone likes that fanart. And that's all it is: fanart. We don't know if Banshees could actually breastfeed babies in a Synthesis future. Did Weekes ever state his preferred ending? I think Mark Meer likes Control...

nope .. a lot of the pro-synthesis people find it offending.

but you are right ... weekes should be more cautious with his twitter statements.


a question to the (north)-americans on this board .. whats up with twitter? ... why do u use this service so excessively?

[Wayning_Star]

AlanC9 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

We already knew it was supposed to be a "good" ending. Every ending except Refuse is good.

actually, from the ending slides, the refuse ending seems to cure the problem,as much as any. Kind of makes choosing moot.

sent me to the gazer scene..and why the 'kid' there seemed like the catalyst avatar?

[Dr_Extrem]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

We already knew it was supposed to be a "good" ending. Every ending except Refuse is good.

Ehhhh, no. A lot of people on BSN don't believe that it's a good ending.

because the endings are not good in many peoples books. some only see certain endings as a lesser evil.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 20 février 2013 - 10:09 .

[Obadiah]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

But as the series' producer, wouldn't he have significant insight into the story's development? If it's even possible for Synthesis to be his preferred ending, doesn't that suggest that it's supposed to be a good ending?

The Synthesis EC appears to exhibit enhanced biological fortitude, enhanced awareness, and enhanced cooperation and togetherness... with the Reapers in the background. I can see why people would like this ending, and why it would be the writer's favorite. Disptopian futures are a dime a dozen now and the cliche. It's about time someone showed a truly brighter future for everyone.

I can also see why people would assume it is an "obvious" hallucination trap. It really does look too good to be true.

[AlanC9]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

We already knew it was supposed to be a "good" ending. Every ending except Refuse is was supposed to be good.

Ehhhh, no. A lot of people on BSN don't believe that it's a good ending.

Point taken, corrections made above.

I agree with Bio, but neither their intent nor my evaluation prove that something's "good."

[Wayning_Star]

its funny, but those who wish for utopian society, strive to upend utopian societies, or their evocation?

also how the OP is required to be an authority on the subject of destroy...

[M74]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

...because some people appear to forget in the last five minutes.

If anyone's stuck in the "Us vs Them" mentality, it's the Reapers themselves.  When have they ever shown any care for anything other than their own designs?

Time and time again they've told us we are insignificant, our actions meaningless and futile, that we are nothing but insects before them, that our destruction is necessary and inevitable.

They've proven to be remorseless, emotionless, brutal, relentless. They've butched billions of innocent living beings, exterminated thousands of races and wiped out countless civilisations over the course of millenia.

DO NOT FORGET THIS FACT.

The REAPERS are the aggressors. The REAPERS are the ones who refuse to negotiate. The REAPERS are the ones who perpetrate the cycle of extinction and unless they are removed from the equation, they will inevitably be the ones who end it.

Only when their backs are truly to the wall do they become willing to talk.  But even then, they try to twist us to fulfilling their own goals.  To making their purpose our own.  Now, you can empathise with the Catalyst if you want, you can listen to it's (inhuman) arguments, accept it's (disingenuous) assertations and agree with it's (flawed) logic if you wish, but TWO MINUTES of nonsensical platitudes and vague assurances are not enough to convince me that everything we know about the Reapers is a lie.

The Reapers have told us from day one: "YOUR DESTRUCTION IS INEVITABLE"

They kill indiscriminately - soldier, civilian, man, woman, child, baby. They care nothing for anything but their own motives, their own goals. And they are clever enough and manipulative enough to persuade people to trust them, to accept them, to believe in them. Just like you're doing right now.

They turn organic races against each other, and that's why they have always - ALWAYS - won.

We can't trust them. We can't allow them to influence us. We can't let them sway our resolve.

We FIGHT. Or we DIE.

By their very nature, they've given us no other choice.

The Reapers have failed comprehending their mission objective and the Leviathans have missed an opportunity guiding their creation in the right direction, resulting in that we all pay the price. 

The Reapers consider us as the chaos and they are the remedy to restore order. However this seems a bit contradictory (chaos and order) because the Reapers look for an answer and seem to seek it amongst highly evolved species, making the chaos theory a bit void I think.

I choose destroy ending, because the Reapers are tools, technology and not in posession of true intelligence or true consciousness. They are programmed mechanical things. So, destroying them makes perfect sense. Synthesis on the flipside would be the remedy they hope for, but no species played it through to the end in fear of the consequences. They put Shep the Synthesis option bang right under his nose in front of him when he awakes on the Citadel. The Catalyst sees that as hope and wishes Shepard accepts that.

The refusal ending is something I don't advise (from the logic) neither control ending, because I think the Reapers are as unhappy beeing controled as much as we would be. So, gives me the Red ending to end all of this. Choosing Synthesis I simply lack enough trust into the Reapers that this will last or be as promised.

[BleedingUranium]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

nope .. a lot of the pro-synthesis people find it offending.

but you are right ... weekes should be more cautious with his twitter statements.


a question to the (north)-americans on this board .. whats up with twitter? ... why do u use this service so excessively?

More careful? Why?

[Bill Casey]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

because the endings are not good in many peoples books. some only see certain endings as a lesser evil.

People who don't see the endings in terms of lesser of evils are sociopaths...

[Dr_Extrem]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

nope .. a lot of the pro-synthesis people find it offending.

but you are right ... weekes should be more cautious with his twitter statements.


a question to the (north)-americans on this board .. whats up with twitter? ... why do u use this service so excessively?

More careful? Why?

because people could start to believe, that his perosnal feelings are based on company secrets or that his statement is something official.

people are easily mislead.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 20 février 2013 - 10:40 .

[dorktainian]

M74 wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

...because some people appear to forget in the last five minutes.

If anyone's stuck in the "Us vs Them" mentality, it's the Reapers themselves.  When have they ever shown any care for anything other than their own designs?

Time and time again they've told us we are insignificant, our actions meaningless and futile, that we are nothing but insects before them, that our destruction is necessary and inevitable.

They've proven to be remorseless, emotionless, brutal, relentless. They've butched billions of innocent living beings, exterminated thousands of races and wiped out countless civilisations over the course of millenia.

DO NOT FORGET THIS FACT.

The REAPERS are the aggressors. The REAPERS are the ones who refuse to negotiate. The REAPERS are the ones who perpetrate the cycle of extinction and unless they are removed from the equation, they will inevitably be the ones who end it.

Only when their backs are truly to the wall do they become willing to talk.  But even then, they try to twist us to fulfilling their own goals.  To making their purpose our own.  Now, you can empathise with the Catalyst if you want, you can listen to it's (inhuman) arguments, accept it's (disingenuous) assertations and agree with it's (flawed) logic if you wish, but TWO MINUTES of nonsensical platitudes and vague assurances are not enough to convince me that everything we know about the Reapers is a lie.

The Reapers have told us from day one: "YOUR DESTRUCTION IS INEVITABLE"

They kill indiscriminately - soldier, civilian, man, woman, child, baby. They care nothing for anything but their own motives, their own goals. And they are clever enough and manipulative enough to persuade people to trust them, to accept them, to believe in them. Just like you're doing right now.

They turn organic races against each other, and that's why they have always - ALWAYS - won.

We can't trust them. We can't allow them to influence us. We can't let them sway our resolve.

We FIGHT. Or we DIE.

By their very nature, they've given us no other choice.

The Reapers have failed comprehending their mission objective and the Leviathans have missed an opportunity guiding their creation in the right direction, resulting in that we all pay the price. 

The Reapers consider us as the chaos and they are the remedy to restore order. However this seems a bit contradictory (chaos and order) because the Reapers look for an answer and seem to seek it amongst highly evolved species, making the chaos theory a bit void I think.

I choose destroy ending, because the Reapers are tools, technology and not in posession of true intelligence or true consciousness. They are programmed mechanical things. So, destroying them makes perfect sense. Synthesis on the flipside would be the remedy they hope for, but no species played it through to the end in fear of the consequences. They put Shep the Synthesis option bang right under his nose in front of him when he awakes on the Citadel. The Catalyst sees that as hope and wishes Shepard accepts that.

The refusal ending is something I don't advise (from the logic) neither control ending, because I think the Reapers are as unhappy beeing controled as much as we would be. So, gives me the Red ending to end all of this. Choosing Synthesis I simply lack enough trust into the Reapers that this will last or be as promised.

there has to be balance between order and chaos,  synthesis doesnt introduce balance, it imposes order.  Control also imposes order.  Where is the balance?  Where is our right to self determination?  Our right to freedom?  so picking Destroy for  me was justifying the fact that the reapers killed my buddies and now they're gonna meet their maker.  about time too.


Don;t take your eye off the real problem.  The reapers.

No reapers = no problem.

Modifié par dorktainian, 20 février 2013 - 10:46 .

[BleedingUranium]

dorktainian wrote...

there has to be balance between order and chaos,  synthesis doesnt introduce balance, it imposes order.  Control also imposes order.  Where is the balance?  Where is our right to self determination?  Our right to freedom?  so picking Destroy for  me was justifying the fact that the reapers killed my buddies and now they're gonna meet their maker.  about time too.


Don;t take your eye off the real problem.  The reapers.

No reapers = no problem.

Exactly.

The only people that believe there's a problem other than the Reapers, are the Reapers themselves.

[ElSuperGecko]

Good ot see this thread encouraging lots of healthy, constructive debate.

chris2365 wrote...
Thanks for clearing that up. Must have gotten confused with the Geth. My point still stands however. It's even shown in the EC Synthesis ending that the Reapers are cooperating with the other races and even helping them rebuild and sharing their knowledge. This is done with their on their own (no Catalyst involved). So it would be wrong to say that they are all evil and agressive. 

Sorry to pick up again Chris, but how do you know this?

We're given no indication as to what if anything is controlling the Reapers in the Synthesis ending.  The may be unshackled and acting on their own (which is a worrying thought in itself); they may however still be controlled by the Catalyst (another worrying thought).  It's never expressly made clear what is responsible for the Reapers actions.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Quick question: Has anyone's belief as to what is the the best/correct ending been changed at all by this debate?

[CronoDragoon]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Quick question: Has anyone's belief as to what is the the best/correct ending been changed at all by this debate?

On the macro level, arguments put forward by certain Control and Synthesis supporters have heightened my opinion of those endings. I can only hope I've done the same for Destroy, but who knows.